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Offline Lorene  
#1 Posted : 13 September 2002 23:42:49(UTC)
Lorene


Joined: 13/09/2002(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: ,
I have been collecting Marklin trains and tracks (M) for many years. I have all the turnouts and switches. I have got my layout board cut out. I am ready to do the electrical but don't know how to begin. Can someone recommend a beginners book in english?. Or give some suggestions. thanks.

Offline PeFu  
#2 Posted : 14 September 2002 01:20:16(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,210
Hi Lorene,

It depends a lot on if you are going analog (controlling the engines by changing the voltage with transformers, and using signals) or digital (having decoders in the engines, controlling them with a control unit, or even a computer)? Whatever you are going for, I'm confident you will find all the information you need on the net.

Regards,
Peter

Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
Offline Webmaster  
#3 Posted : 14 September 2002 02:28:49(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Hi Lorene, welcome to the marklin-users.net forum. I hope you will find some answers here...

Well, as Peter says, it would be easier to know if you told us if you were planning to run a "conventional" layout or a digital layout. It would also be of help if you could tell us what kind of control boxes and such you have planned to use, if you want to use signals, the size of the layout, number of trains simultaneously run, number of turnouts etc...

But I'll take a shot at explaining the very basics.

If running conventional, then the basics are:

For the track itself, "train power":
Red wire from transformer goes to the centre stud rail, brown to the metal base of the M-track. If you have several transformers, you connect each to a "section" of the layout, sectioning of the track is made by isolating the centre stud rail joints with a piece of paper, plastic or such. This means you have one transformer for each section and the speed setting of the transformer connected to the section is what controls the speed of any train in that section.

For accessories like lights and such:
Yellow wire from transformer to the accessory, the return wire from accessories to "brown". On-off switching can be done with the Märklin switch-box with yellow and green buttons, or any contact switch with fixed on-off positions.

For turnout operation:
Yellow wire to the turnout connected to the yellow transformer output. The blue wires (with red & green plugs) are momentarily connected to ground (brown) to switch the turnout from one position to the other. This can be done with the Märklin switch-box with momentary contacts (red & green buttons on it) or any type of momentary contact. A momentary contact can be a button that you press and release, a contact track or a reed contact that the trains themselves trigger or anything else that is not in a fixed "on" or "off" position... You can easily test turnouts by just connecting the yellow wire to the transformer, and then take the red or green plug of the turnout and just touch it to a rail of the M-track.

Signals:
Signals are controlled/connected the same way as turnouts with momentary contacts, but usually also have an extra "red" wire input & output to control a small piece of an isolated track section front of the signal with either "power" or "no power" to that track section. This means that the power to the signal track section is cut when the signal shows "red", and power is fed to the section if it is "green". That red cable input is connected to the centre stud track just outside the signal track section where the "red power" is on...

Turnouts and signals are really "bistable relays", which get a push in the right direction by momentarily shorting "yellow" to "brown". You can also have additional relays of the same type to switch on/off whatever you want by the same principle as turnouts & signals in case you want to control things by the running trains.

More intricate wiring schemes are mainly variations and extensions of the mentioned principles, and can get as complex as you wish...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

One thing to keep in mind is to have a common ground for everything, i e. all brown cables should be interconnected. It may also be wise to use "fatter" cables, esp for the ground (brown) if you have several transformers used on the layout.

And be on alert for shorts on the layout, sometimes you just "happen" to connect "red wires" or "yellow wires" directly to "brown" even if it is not intentional.... Has happened to me sometimes... <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
So keep your main wiring color-coded with red, yellow and brown and don't be "smart" to e g use a red cable for ground connection just because you have run out of brown cables... And/Or label them properly, it will save you a lot of frustration while looking for "that cable that should go to that thingy"...

You should also think about feeding "red" and "brown" to the tracks in several places along the track, since the M-track has some resistance in the track joints. Every 2m is a kind of recommended value, but not a definite rule, so if you get by with e g every 5m that is ok too...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline alonso231gery  
#4 Posted : 15 September 2002 02:51:19(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
hello all
can i fit the elactric mechanisms of m track to a c track?
alonso

An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline Webmaster  
#5 Posted : 15 September 2002 03:28:05(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Hi Alonso...
What do you mean by "electric mechanisms" ? If you mean the wiring, it is the same, electrically, whatever Märklin track & accessories you use... It's all in the "system", so to speak... The track itself is just the carrier and does not theoretically differ on which Märklin tracks (M, K or C) you use...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline Thanos  
#6 Posted : 16 September 2002 11:52:04(UTC)
Thanos


Joined: 19/03/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,088
Location: Athens,
Hi Alonso, all:

Are you referring to the electric turnout mechanisms, like for example the 74490 is for the for C-turnouts?

Thanos
Thanos



Offline Lorene  
#7 Posted : 17 September 2002 06:21:40(UTC)
Lorene


Joined: 13/09/2002(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: ,
thanks for all the good suggestions I have received. I am running analog. In re: to having my loks converted to digital, at $100 a pop, I really can't invest that much into conversion as I have 14 loks. I started collecing many years ago with the SET series. I got a layout from an old Marklin catalogue and started buying all the necessary parts for its construction. My layout is 12ft longx 4 ft wide. all my parts are Marklin and all new, never been used even by me but they are over 10 to 15 years old. I have 10 turnouts, 6-7072 control boxeds (red & green buttons), 4-7209-all metal with no buttons, 1-7210 red & yellow buttons, 9 various signals 7039, 7040, 7041, 7042, 4 transformers 2-30VA, 1-16 VA, and 1-10VA. The reason I include all this is someone requested this info. I would like to run 3 loks at one time; but more importantly I would like to all the turnouts and switches as they were designed to be run. thanks for the help. Lorene

Offline Lars Westerlind  
#8 Posted : 17 September 2002 10:45:43(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
OK Lorene,
I'll repeat some of Juhans advices with different words, and try to add a few extra cent's.
First I'd consider how the transformers should be used. As you have 4, I would suggest that you could sectionize your layout, so you may control a train in one part at the same time as a friend does it in another part. Catenary for e-loks is an option, but it takes some effort to get it working, and maybe you don't have that many e-loks. My main suggestion:

Three sections of track, for example line+2 stations or the like, controlled by each one transformer, the red output of the transformers used for each track. The last one used for all yellow cables to signals or turnouts. Lamps in houses etc could be connected also to this yellow, or optionally to the red output (but use yellow or for example orange cable); in this way you are allowed to dim the lights of these lights.

Which transformers you use for what is not so important; could easily be changed afterwards. 10 VA is weak but enough for one train. As said before, all browns together, including the transformers brown. And, the switch boxes with red and green buttons should be connected at their side with the brown cables.

Please keep in mind that when using sections of track, these transfomers should be in phase. At least here in Sweden the plug in the wall may be turned 180 degrees, which means that the AC of the transformer output is + when the other transformer was -. And it's not good to have it that way when the locos slider bridges two sections. Some countries AFAIK have asymmetrich plugs to guarrantee that the phase is the same; if not so do like this:

1. Arrange your transformer connection so that you can switch them off wihtout having to pull the plugs.
2. Connect the browns of all transformers together and put them on.
3. Set the speed dial to half speed on all.
4. Get a lamp or another simple means to measure voltage, and connect it between two red outputs. If the lamp is shining, the transformers are out of phase, if it's dark or only glowing, it's ok.
5. Turn the plug of one of the transfomers, and check again, until it's all ok.

Let's see, all browns together, the yellow cables together into the light trasformer, the red from each section together and to the corresponding transformer. The blues are left. They are connected to the boxes with the red and green buttons, pairwise. The red and green plugs here should mean red=turn,stop, green=straight,go. Could be tested by temporarily touching the any brown including the rails. When these cables are to short, my own special tip is to use extra cables with one red and one green plug; I always connect one green to one red, and the free end will have the right colour. The important thing is making up your mind and no cheating; in the long run it will make it easier for you.

Regards,
Lars Westerlind.

Offline Lars Westerlind  
#9 Posted : 17 September 2002 10:51:28(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
More...
if the signals have the base plate still with them, they should be used to connect them to the track, and the lights will get their grounding through them.

The box with red and yellow buttons could be used to switch power to different lamps, but a better use since you have so many locos, is to have sidings for locos, which are isolated and connected with red cables to this box. The side of the box is connected to the red of the transformer controlling the sections outside the sidings.

/Lars

Offline alonso231gery  
#10 Posted : 18 September 2002 17:49:44(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
hi all
yes thanos

An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline Lorene  
#11 Posted : 23 September 2002 18:27:23(UTC)
Lorene


Joined: 13/09/2002(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: ,
Someone on this web site recommended Carl Weaver's book. In it it says to lay a copper wire around the underside of the layout and run all grounds to it. Question: I have done this but how do you connect both ends of the loop together? Twist them? Tie them together with plastic? Solder them? many thanks for your patience.

Offline Lars Westerlind  
#12 Posted : 23 September 2002 20:50:06(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Best: soldering.
But twisting them is OK.

Offline Lorene  
#13 Posted : 23 September 2002 23:54:01(UTC)
Lorene


Joined: 13/09/2002(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: ,
on a Marklin 6627 Transformer, it has 4 inlets one yellow, one red, and 2 brown. What are the 2 brown for? I know that one of them is for ground but what about the other? thanks

Offline KLB  
#14 Posted : 24 September 2002 00:33:02(UTC)
KLB


Joined: 22/09/2001(UTC)
Posts: 639
Location: ,
Hi Lorene,all,
This is also a ground connection.

Kevin!

Moderator,Märklin Bar&Grill

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MarklinBandG/
Kevin!

Moderator,Märklin Bar&Grill

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MarklinBandG/
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#15 Posted : 24 September 2002 10:04:13(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Lorene,
yes, the browns are internally connected together, so you can use any of them, or both. I guess that the Märklins idea was to use one to connect the brown of the track together with the red cable, and the other to the switchbox for the turnouts, together with the yellow cable. But in my head it just causes confusion.

/Lars

Offline Lorene  
#16 Posted : 25 September 2002 07:19:57(UTC)
Lorene


Joined: 13/09/2002(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: ,
Lars, I am quite happy to report I took your advice re: putting all my transformers in the same phase. The procedure worked. Thanks ever so much. Lorene

Offline Lorene  
#17 Posted : 30 September 2002 23:09:40(UTC)
Lorene


Joined: 13/09/2002(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: ,
am in the process of installing remaining turnouts for my layout. Problem: The wires from turnouts and signals are never long enough to reach the 7072 control box. Therefore, I have to add more wire and a male & female plug between the 2 wires to reach the box. Consequently, I am running out of plugs. Question: can I solder the 2 wires together? Is it safe to leave a soldered joint visible between 2 insulated wires? Is this the best answer? Or do I need to buy more plugs? thanks, Lorene

Offline KLB  
#18 Posted : 30 September 2002 23:59:49(UTC)
KLB


Joined: 22/09/2001(UTC)
Posts: 639
Location: ,
Hi Lorene,
&gt;&gt;Question: can I solder the 2 wires together? Is it safe to leave a soldered joint visible between 2 insulated wires? &lt;&lt;

I don't know if you have a carpet layout or a permenate one.Still you can solder the wires together,but just to make sure you don't have any shorts,wrap some electrical tape around the solder joint just_in_case<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Kevin!

Moderator,Märklin Bar&Grill

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MarklinBandG/
Kevin!

Moderator,Märklin Bar&Grill

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MarklinBandG/
Offline alonso231gery  
#19 Posted : 01 October 2002 03:13:14(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
hi all
i saw on a webpage a book that is called
Greenberg's layout building handbook for operators...
any comments?

An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline KLB  
#20 Posted : 01 October 2002 15:27:23(UTC)
KLB


Joined: 22/09/2001(UTC)
Posts: 639
Location: ,
Hi alonso,all,

&gt;&gt;Greenberg's layout building handbook for operators...&lt;&lt;

Yes by Carl Weaver.Pre-internet day it was thebook for Märklin layout builders,in english.A really good book cover every aspect of layout building.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

Sadly Herr Weaver tore down the layout years ago and sold almost everything<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> he now collects spur 1

Kevin!

Moderator,Märklin Bar&Grill

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MarklinBandG/
Kevin!

Moderator,Märklin Bar&Grill

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MarklinBandG/
Offline alonso231gery  
#21 Posted : 02 October 2002 00:59:07(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
why this book is so expensive?

An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline KLB  
#22 Posted : 02 October 2002 03:49:20(UTC)
KLB


Joined: 22/09/2001(UTC)
Posts: 639
Location: ,
Hi alonso,
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>why this book is so expensive? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana" size=1 id=quote>

It's Märklin!<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Well the book was in print for years,then went out.It can back as a 2nd edition.

Please contact me off list,I'll sell you mine at what ever you consider a fair price.

Kevin!

Moderator,Märklin Bar&Grill

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MarklinBandG/
Kevin!

Moderator,Märklin Bar&Grill

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MarklinBandG/
Offline McLae  
#23 Posted : 08 October 2002 07:02:01(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
When soldering wires, you might want to use 'heat shrink tubing'. You can order if from http://www.railtronics.com/ in various sizezs. The size of tubing you need would be based on how large your wire and solder joint are.

How this works:
1. before you solder, slide a section of tubing over one wire.
2. make the solder joint
3. after the joint has cooled, slide the tubing over the solder joint.
4. use your wife's hair drier to blow hot air on the tubing. As the tubing gets hot, it shrinks to half size.

This makes a very professional looking joint, and will not fall off. The tubing comes in various colors and sizes. For Marklin type wire, you might need 3/32" or 1/16".

The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline Thanos  
#24 Posted : 08 October 2002 15:31:01(UTC)
Thanos


Joined: 19/03/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,088
Location: Athens,
Hi all:

Heat shrink tubing sounds like an excellent idea for those soldered joints. However, I think that sometimes it is better to use plugs as if suddenly you start hating that signal and you want to put it a couple of centimeters on the left you just unplug the wires, place the signal and plug again. No wire stripping, no soldering, no heat shrink tubing. Anyway, I think that all methods have their advantages and disadvantages. You just have to decide which suits you and your layout best.

Thanos
Thanos



Offline KLB  
#25 Posted : 08 October 2002 15:40:07(UTC)
KLB


Joined: 22/09/2001(UTC)
Posts: 639
Location: ,
Hi all,
Instead of heat shrink tubing,I use liquid electrical tape
http://www.dxmarket.com/micromark/products/82216.html.Much easier to use,IMHO and cheaper that the tape.I have done 2 ETE modules,a friends E-lok service facility,and my layout with one can(!)<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

I also a agree with Thanos about plugs,they do come in handy when testing new equipment and easy to unplug, say fron a decoder to replace a signal,etc,....


Kevin!

Moderator,Märklin Bar&Grill

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MarklinBandG/
Kevin!

Moderator,Märklin Bar&Grill

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MarklinBandG/
Offline alonso231gery  
#26 Posted : 08 October 2002 16:11:17(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
hi all
i am not planning to buy soon because i have no money now
i will let u know when i will
thank you anyway
regards
Alonso

An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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