Hi Everyone,

This problem is driving me insane and what little hair I have left is fast disappearing. It's going to be difficult to explain in words, so I'll try and be brief.

I use C track with CS2, 3 MS1's and 2 boosters. The layout is setup on 3 tables, all are electrically isolated so that the CS2 powers one table and the 2 boosters power the other 2 tables. This is all as per instructions by Marklin and everything has worked for a number of months. Suddenly, I have an overload problem occurring. I have isolated the problem to one table. When this table is powered, there is a buzzing noise that runs through the tracks and after a few seconds the CS2 overloads. I have placed a multimeter on this table when there is no power I it indicates that the circuit is good - a reading of 0.002. On this table I have a turntable. This is the interesting or frustrating factor. The table is disconnected from any power, yet when I plug the turntable to the "OFF" transformer, the CS2 goes into overload. There is no power to the turntable just the wires connected to an unpowered transformer.

WHY ?????

Can anyone please help before I look like Kojack!!!!!

Regards
Greg

Hi Greg, have you tried to the turntable bridge to position where it is NO connected to any track?

Hi Greg,

how did you connect the turntable? Be careful, I made an incorrect connection of my turntable and blowed the booster-stage of the CS2...

The pdf linked below is available from the Märklin-FAQ:

Click here: http://www.railnet.se/pics/Turntable_CS2.pdf

It should show the correct way to connect, and you should off-curse be able to substitute the CS2 with a booster (60173/4). If you use 601x-type boosters, again watch it. It can create unexpected ground connections!!!

Hi Greg,

These inserts would have nothing to do with the problem you described. As you said, the overload occurs when the transformer is hooked up to the turntable drive motor but not powered. The transformer doesn´t have any connection to the CS2 or the tracks. But hooked up as you described, the CS2 overloads. Therefore, at that moment there is an electrical connection established between transformer and tracks. It doesn´t overload immediately however but after a short while. The reason for that is the resistance of the secondary transformer coil, i.e. the coil to which the turntable is connected. To put it simply, there is a connection from say, the outer rail, through one wire of the transformer turntable connection, through the sec. coil, the other wire of the turntable connection and finally to the center studs of the track.
So either: A- you accidentally swapped the wires of turntable-rail connections with the turntable motor connections or B- a short occurs between these 2 sets of wires. Make sure you can rule out A first. As for B the most likely place for that to occur is where all the wires connect to the center shaft of the bridge. Each wire ends on a pickup shoe running against a circular metal ring at the end of the center shaft. To get to them lift out the center piece on the bridge, underneath there is a metal shaft secured by a spring washer. Sideways pull the spring washer out of its groove, take out the 2 inserts on both sides of the bridge and lift out the bridge. Check the pickup shoes and the rings and make sure they are clean and that there are no funny deposits on the plastic surfaces between the rings.

Then proceed to measure the resistance values between the rings, checking which ring is connected to the drive motor and which ones are connected to the tracks, by checking their corresponding pickup shoe and wire.

Most likely you will have found the cause of the problem by now.

Ps: You said you put a multimeter to the table (i.e. between rail and center studs?) where the problem occurs, it reads 0,002 .. Ohms or even kOhms? If so, that is a short circuit. With nothing on the tracks the meter should read infinite resistance, usually a 1 on the left of a digital display.


Regards, Robert

As with any troubleshooting, "divide and conquer".

If I read your original posting correctly, this setup used to work just fine - is that correct?

If so, then the first thing to determine is what is different now, to how it was then.

Either you have made an alteration (deliberate or in error) that has caused the fault, or something unknown has happened.

It appears the problem came on quite suddenly, so do you recall if this was after installing or altering some other aspect of the layout? - thinking back might provide some clues and don't dismiss anything no matter how unrelated it might seem at first.

The old saying goes when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable must be the truth (or something like that).

If the problem came on out of the blue with absolutely no alteration made by you, then something has happened that you are unaware of.

In this case, I would be looking at something that has worked loose, some foreign object caught in the track (the smallest fragment of wire in a turnout frog or blade will be all it takes and you may not even be able to see it - have you done a brush and vacuum of the track?

Maybe this will help?

Good luck

I'd offer to come help troubleshoot but it's a bit of a drive.



Cookee
Melbourne

Well whatever hair I had left on my head has been pulled out.

We disconnected just about everything and we found that the wires coming from the old style booster (6017) were causing the overload. I have a 60174 booster which powers another table, so we disconnected it from the table and connected it to the trouble table. Everything worked !!! Even the turntable - no problems. So, we reset the track that had been disturbed by the rectification work, then turned everything on - and then - OVERLOAD .

I tested the power on the tracks with a multimeter. Table 1, which is powered by the CS2 was showing 16 volts through the tracks. Table 2 which is powered by the 60174 booster, was showing 32 volts !!!!!! I not not if this is good, nevertheless, none of the turnouts on table 2 work now !!!!

If anyone has a direct answer I would greatly appreciate it - otherwise, I'm going to give it a rest for a few days, so my nerves calm down.

Bugger !!!!

Regards
Greg

Nev, I thought of that too, however, in this particular case, I have ripped the "tongues" out of the track, just to make sure that the tracks are isolated, i.e. none of those little orange "thingies" inserted.

Greg

Yes, Ray. I know to do this, however, the size of the task is very daunting. After today's success then failure, it has left me a little deflated, and I need to raise my level of confidence again. I think I'll let it go for awhile, and then start afresh taking everything off one by one and then assembling back one by one.

Regards
Greg

Greg,

most the time there is a simple explanation for all of this, good thinking, let it rest for a while and than when you get back it stares you right in the face.

Ray' solution is very promising but in my case getting rid of every wire under the board would take a week to remove and a month to re-instate.

Your problem lies with the boosters 6017 versus 60174 the connecting cable has to be reversed or upside down,

regards.,


John

Hi,

I do not think this applies to the transformers powering boosters, as the boosters themselves have electronic circuits inside them, designed to give the correct digital signal independently from the plug position inside the mains socket (+/-180°).
It is important to check the polarity of the transformers in analog operation to control two separate circuit tracks to avoid short circuits made by the pickup shoe passing over the insulation between the two circuit tracks.

Bye

Renato

Tom, you have done it again !!!! You have solved my problem once more. Last time I said you were a genius - well I think you're more than that. To tell you the truth, I'm really dumb by having the wires on the wrong terminals - nearly as dumb as Marklin who have 2 red wires that connect to the track from the CS2. Anyway, Tom thanks again.

Regards
Greg

In my moment of joy of having my layout returned to normal, I forgot to tell everyone who tried to help me, what I found was the cause to my problem. The problem was the connection from the booster to the track at the track. I don't know exactly why, but when I disconnected the two clips, all the problems went away - even the problem with the turntable. So, the turntable was not faulty at all, and not even the transformer that powered the turntable motor. The only bad thing that happened to the equipment, was that the booster (6017) will not communicate with the CS2. I'm going to replace the booster with the newer 60174. Now the baffling part of this story, is that I reconnected the tracks at the same position with a 60174 booster and when I had the wires the correct way 'round, everything worked. The only conclusion I can come to, is that 6017 booster was faulty. If nothing happens in the future then the booster is the fault and it will be BOOTED !!!

I hope this is the end of this problem and if it is, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank those who tried to help, as every bit of information contributed to solving the problem. You don't know how close I came to ripping everything up and starting all over again - 3 years of work. My grandson, who turns 3 next week, also thanks you. I can't wait for him to be old enough to tell me how to fix everything.

Regards
Greg