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Offline Thewolf  
#1 Posted : 05 March 2018 10:53:24(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Hi guys Cool

Yesterday something happened that I don't explain but that the specialists of this forum will not fail to explain to me.

A train enters track 1 from the hidden station. The locomotive activates the detection rail. It is isolated. Everything stops. The short circuit warning appears on the cs2. I disconnect

the detection rail and everything goes back in order.

Everything worked properly for quite some time

I think I'm going to do what most Quebecers do: go play Bingo and give up the little train.Blink Cool BigGrin

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline PMPeter  
#2 Posted : 05 March 2018 15:19:49(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Considering all of the problems you have reported over the last months regarding your home made contact track sections and the S88, and now this, it sure points toward one of your isolated contact tracks not being properly isolated. In this case it sounds like your contact rail is somehow having the O contact the B power which causes the short once the engine touches the contact rail. I would take out that contact track and check all of your isolation cuts underneath to make sure you have made the cuts cleanly in your C track. The B and O "bridges" are very close together and if the cut metal touches the B bridge you will have a short once the loco makes contact.
Offline Thewolf  
#3 Posted : 05 March 2018 16:03:44(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Considering all of the problems you have reported over the last months regarding your home made contact track sections and the S88, and now this, it sure points toward one of your isolated contact tracks not being properly isolated. In this case it sounds like your contact rail is somehow having the O contact the B power which causes the short once the engine touches the contact rail. I would take out that contact track and check all of your isolation cuts underneath to make sure you have made the cuts cleanly in your C track. The B and O "bridges" are very close together and if the cut metal touches the B bridge you will have a short once the loco makes contact.


It's not a single rail from which I cut off the bridges, but several dozen. If I had done the job wrong as you seem to say, I'd have trouble with all the tracks.

I'm not rejecting the hypothesis that I missed my shot with this rail.

It is a fact that the B and O collide inside the rail. But I think I might have a theory.

When the rail is intact, bridge O holds the assembly securely in place.

Bridge O is cut off, making the whole assembly that goes to the other side of the center a little unstable, moving when a weight passes over it.

At the place where this rail is laid, there is a slight drop in elevation. The rail is not flat on the module platform. The surface of the module is not particularly flat in a correct way.

Which means that when the train passes on this rail, this rail moves.

And maybe it's at that moment, I'm saying, maybe the O and B touch each other and cause a short circuit. It's a theory. If I keep the rail from moving, I should stop the problem. I'm gonna try and screw this track

What do you think ?

Thewolf

Edited by user 05 March 2018 20:52:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline PMPeter  
#4 Posted : 05 March 2018 16:17:31(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
I'm using the Maerklin terminology of B (red wire centre pukos) and O (brown wire outside rails). So when you use A and B I really do not know which ones you are referring to.

However, what you are saying is more or less the same that I am saying that somehow your cut O bridge is making contact with your non-cut B bridge, whether by locomotive weight or changing room temperatures. Rather than screwing the track down I would try and bend the cut piece away from the O bridge if possible or cut it out so that there is no way that weight or temperature can ever cause the 2 to touch.
Offline Thewolf  
#5 Posted : 05 March 2018 16:33:01(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I'm using the Maerklin terminology of B (red wire centre pukos) and O (brown wire outside rails). So when you use A and B I really do not know which ones you are referring to.
.


You're really insulting, man.

If you think I don't know what I'm talking about, you're mistaken and go your way.

It was a way to abbreviate the explanations of O and B.

Thewolf

Edited by user 05 March 2018 20:55:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline PMPeter  
#6 Posted : 05 March 2018 17:02:11(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I'm using the Maerklin terminology of B (red wire centre pukos) and O (brown wire outside rails). So when you use A and B I really do not know which ones you are referring to.
.


You're really insulting, man.

If you think I don't know what I'm talking about, you're mistaken and go your way.

It was a way to abbreviate the explanations of A and B.

Thewolf


Sorry for trying to help you. If you're going to be that way about it, you're on your own!
Offline Thewolf  
#7 Posted : 05 March 2018 17:46:14(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I'm using the Maerklin terminology of B (red wire centre pukos) and O (brown wire outside rails). So when you use A and B I really do not know which ones you are referring to.
.


You're really insulting, man.

If you think I don't know what I'm talking about, you're mistaken and go your way.

It was a way to abbreviate the explanations of A and B.

Thewolf


Sorry for trying to help you. If you're going to be that way about it, you're on your own!


I don't insult the people I want to help... I respect them... which is not your case I believe... read what you've written.

I have my limits and I recognize them... but I will never behave like you towards someone who tries to understand Monsieur I know everything.

Thewolf

Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline waltklatt  
#8 Posted : 05 March 2018 18:08:16(UTC)
waltklatt

United States   
Joined: 17/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 138
You mean that you get a short once that locomotive hits the detection rail?
The short goes away when you remove the locomotive? Correct?
Then you try same locomotive on the same detection track and get short again?
Does this same locomotive give shorts on other detection tracks?
Sounds like a short is bridging because of locomotive?
Does this short occur on this detection track with other locomotives?
Offline PMPeter  
#9 Posted : 05 March 2018 18:17:38(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post


I don't insult the people I want to help... I respect them... which is not your case I believe... read what you've written.

I have my limits and I recognize them... but I will never behave like you towards someone who tries to understand Monsieur I know everything.

Thewolf



I certainly had no intention of insulting you. I just wanted to understand what you mean by A and B when I use O and B. if that is insulting, well then I give up. If anyone has been insulting here it is you towards me for trying to understand your situation.

Offline mike c  
#10 Posted : 05 March 2018 18:48:09(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
The solution is obvious. Seeing that you are from Quebec, your isolated section probably wants to separate. ;)

Sorry about the no politics violation

I wonder if the lok might be bridging the isolated section when it stops?

Regards

Mike C
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Offline PMPeter  
#11 Posted : 05 March 2018 19:24:24(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The solution is obvious. Seeing that you are from Quebec, your isolated section probably wants to separate. ;)

Sorry about the no politics violation

I wonder if the lok might be bridging the isolated section when it stops?

Regards

Mike C


Careful. You too may be accused of being insulting. BigGrin
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Offline Minok  
#12 Posted : 05 March 2018 19:47:49(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I'm using the Maerklin terminology of B (red wire centre pukos) and O (brown wire outside rails). So when you use A and B I really do not know which ones you are referring to.
.


You're really insulting, man.

If you think I don't know what I'm talking about, you're mistaken and go your way.

It was a way to abbreviate the explanations of A and B.

Thewolf


I don't see how one could interpret that as insulting. You are the one using the terms A and B without ever defining what they are in your post. We cannot read your mind nor know your shorthand. So what is A and what is B?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
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Offline Thewolf  
#13 Posted : 05 March 2018 20:00:26(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
I'm using the Maerklin terminology of B (red wire centre pukos) and O (brown wire outside rails). So when you use A and B I really do not know which ones you are referring to.
.


You're really insulting, man.

If you think I don't know what I'm talking about, you're mistaken and go your way.

It was a way to abbreviate the explanations of A and B.

Thewolf


I don't see how one could interpret that as insulting. You are the one using the terms A and B without ever defining what they are in your post. We cannot read your mind nor know your shorthand. So what is A and what is B?


I was distracted... I just meant B and O

Anyway I will avoid asking questions in the future. This will avoid tensions

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#14 Posted : 05 March 2018 20:21:22(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The solution is obvious. Seeing that you are from Quebec, your isolated section probably wants to separate. ;)

Sorry about the no politics violation

I wonder if the lok might be bridging the isolated section when it stops?

Regards

Mike C


Mike C,

This is a dangerous game you're playing here

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Thewolf  
#15 Posted : 05 March 2018 20:54:21(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
I corrected my distraction in the post ° 3 and 5
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Goofy  
#16 Posted : 05 March 2018 21:05:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
It´s possible the locomotive cause short circuit.
I did had same problem for many years ago.
It was the wheel did touched stud contact when the locomotive tried pass over the turnout.

So i don´t think you did mixed B and O.
Märklin C-tracks do sometimes present short circuit when there is bad quality made of Märklin.
You should check after first about contact clip under the C-tracks.
Make sure that there is good isolated.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Thewolf  
#17 Posted : 05 March 2018 21:29:09(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
It´s possible the locomotive cause short circuit.
I did had same problem for many years ago.
It was the wheel did touched stud contact when the locomotive tried pass over the turnout.

So i don´t think you did mixed B and O.
Märklin C-tracks do sometimes present short circuit when there is bad quality made of Märklin.
You should check after first about contact clip under the C-tracks.
Make sure that there is good isolated.


Thank you Goofy

PM Peter suggested that instead of unscrewing the track, I would try to bend the cut piece away from the O deck if possible or cut it out so that there is no chance that the weight or temperature would ever touch the 2.

I'll do both: screw it in and his suggestion. One of them will probably be the right solution.

Mike my dealer and friend says screwing should be a good solution.

So I'm gonna start with this screw at first.

One thing is certain: I prefer the problems now on this trial layout than in 6 months with the final layout.

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline PMPeter  
#18 Posted : 05 March 2018 22:15:44(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
I corrected my distraction in the post ° 3 and 5


Too bad you had to write the 2 posts about me insulting you when all I asked was what you meant by A & B. Perhaps in the future you can accept that people don't necessarily understand what you are saying before you put them down for asking. If you would have written your 2 posts originally the way you have now edited them, I would not have asked.
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Offline Thewolf  
#19 Posted : 05 March 2018 22:49:27(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
I corrected my distraction in the post ° 3 and 5


Too bad you had to write the 2 posts about me insulting you when all I asked was what you meant by A & B. Perhaps in the future you can accept that people don't necessarily understand what you are saying before you put them down for asking. If you would have written your 2 posts originally the way you have now edited them, I would not have asked.


I don't always use the Deepl translator, which is much better than Google's translator. I am able to understand English even if I am not a perfect bilingual.

I use it when technical terms are in the sentence. That time I used it and the traduction in French sounded insulting.

I saw after that I made a little mistake. A distraction. But a distraction does not make a man into someone who knows nothing.

It's all about the way things are presented, how to say things and that's the big difference between French and English.

I've already moved on and it's already forgotten. I don't have time for such '' niaiseries '', even though I see you want to have the last word.

Question time is over for me. I do not leave the forum but I will be less active there

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
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Offline Purellum  
#20 Posted : 05 March 2018 23:40:24(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

I don't what went wrong here; but I definitely don't see anybody insulting Thewolf, only maybe Thewolf insulting those he thought insulted him.

I've read the whole thread 3 times, and I can't find anywhere Thewolf being called "a man who knows nothing" or similar.

Why is it that all the sudden people on this forum feel they are being insulted, just because they don't immediately get the answer they asked for?

I just don't get it.

Per.

P.S: If you think it's the weight of the train causing the tracks to flex and then make a shot circuit, try without the train to put a finger on the tracks, put a little weight on your finger and say "Choo choo" loud 3 times, pretending that you and your finger are the train. If this makes a short circuit, your theory is right and PMPeter's solution is the way to go.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
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Offline Thewolf  
#21 Posted : 05 March 2018 23:46:44(UTC)
Thewolf

Canada   
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC)
Posts: 2,035
Location: Saint Mathias dur Richelieu-Canada
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post
Cool

I don't what went wrong here; but I definitely don't see anybody insulting Thewolf, only maybe Thewolf insulting those he thought insulted him.

I've read the whole thread 3 times, and I can't find anywhere Thewolf being called "a man who knows nothing" or similar.

Why is it that all the sudden people on this forum feel they are being insulted, just because they don't immediately get the answer they asked for?

I just don't get it.

Per.

Cool


Now I'm the one who insults

Okay, I'm quitting this forum.

Thewolf
Project The Richelieu Valley Railway-CS2-Track C- Itrain-Digital
Offline Purellum  
#22 Posted : 05 March 2018 23:59:24(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post


Now I'm the one who insults

Okay, I'm quitting this forum.

Thewolf


I don't think you've read what I wrote, and certainly not my P.S. that I edited in a bit later.

This is what I see as insults in this thread:

"If you think I don't know what I'm talking about, you're mistaken and go your way."

"Monsieur I know everything"

"I don't have time for such '' niaiseries '', even though I see you want to have the last word."


If these phrases aren't meant to be insulting; then what are they meant to be?

Per.

Cool





If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline PMPeter  
#23 Posted : 06 March 2018 01:00:43(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,273
Location: Port Moody, BC
Thank you Per and Minok for both of your supporting posts in this thread. I have no idea what transpired for him to consider my post #4 insulting. I just asked what he meant by A and B in his post #3 compared to the terminology that Maerklin uses of B and O. After Minok asked the same question he went back and edited his posts 3 and 5 using the proper terminology.

This edit now makes Minok's and my questions appear strange for any new readers since A and B no longer appear in his posts. He admits he made a mistake due to a distraction and a small "Sorry PMPeter I over-reacted." would have been nice.

Per, as you nicely summarized, the insults were all directed at me. This is a little frustrating considering there have been at least 10 threads opened up by him on this contact track issue since early February, yet those of us that have been trying to help for over a month end up getting dumped on.

Even though I was insulted, I am not quitting the forum. There are way too many good people on here that I like hearing and learning from, and that I don't mind helping out if I can.

Peter
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Offline mike c  
#24 Posted : 06 March 2018 01:57:39(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
If that track is separated from the rest of the layout, is it possible that the ground and live are inverted somewhere in the wiring and the locomotive and/or cars are creating a short by bridging the gap. It has to be something like that or the situation would exist even when a train was not present.

A Wolf, meme si je faisais une blague politique, j'essayais au meme temps de te fournir avec une suggestion et/ou un direction pour résoudre ta dilemme.
C'etait pour moi comme ta commentaire sur le Bingo.

I hope that you take the comment in jest and that you don't take it personal.

Regards

Mike C
Offline H0  
#25 Posted : 06 March 2018 07:59:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Thewolf Go to Quoted Post
I use it when technical terms are in the sentence. That time I used it and the traduction in French sounded insulting.
[ ...]
I've already moved on and it's already forgotten.
An automatic translation was insulting, but you already moved on. Fine.

But your reaction to Peter was setting him up. You already explained your overreaction, but now it might be time to say you're sorry (if you are) and beg for pardon.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Goofy  
#26 Posted : 06 March 2018 09:26:24(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post


P.S: If you think it's the weight of the train causing the tracks to flex and then make a shot circuit, try without the train to put a finger on the tracks, put a little weight on your finger and say "Choo choo" loud 3 times, pretending that you and your finger are the train. If this makes a short circuit, your theory is right and PMPeter's solution is the way to go.



This meaning of the words doesn´t give good respons of the answer about Thewolf problem on the layout.
Typical bad danish humor.

I believe the tracks are bad quality.
Thewolf should check after if somewhere does circuit.

Märklinist like member here in this forum nows byself bad contact on the C-tracks.

Support members here and not start provoce!

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline hxmiesa  
#27 Posted : 06 March 2018 09:29:19(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Sorry for the off-topic, but I want to stress a thing that I see way too often;

People quitting the forum (or threatening to quit), because of minor skirmishes: I cant beleive that we are seeing this over and over again.
Come on, we are (almost) all middle-aged-to-old men with lots of professional experience and education.
If you think that m-users.net is harsh, it really only means that you havent moved around much on the internet! Poeple here are by far the most polite forum-users around, AND we have the good advantage of ALL of us being consumers of the single same brand of model railroading equipmemnt. -So we really have far more in common to unite us, than divide us. (as compared to many other more "general-purpose" model railroading fora...)

To the people who cant handle the tone; Please grow some thicker skin! (I moderated this final line down to be less hum... "insulting"... In the end, one can grow a lot of things... Some of them comes in pairs... I´ll stop now!)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Purellum  
#28 Posted : 06 March 2018 10:26:10(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
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Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


This meaning of the words doesn´t give good respons of the answer about Thewolf problem on the layout.
Typical bad danish humor.



How else would you test if the weight is causing the problem?

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


Support members here and not start provoce!



I am supporting; you just don't get it and only sees what you want to see, which as usual is provocations.

So far your own "help" in this case has been to tell that Märklin tracks are "bad quality"; which is the same answer you give no matter what product from Märklin we are discussing.

That really doesn't help solving the problem.

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline DB Fan  
#29 Posted : 06 March 2018 12:15:51(UTC)
DB Fan

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 265
Location: Colorado
How can you blame Marklin for this problem? As far as I understand it, The Wolf did modify the track and at that moment it became a problem created by the owner and not by Marklin. I also don’t understand how you can get upset about a question trying to clarify something.
I do have to say that I like this forum a lot because members are friendly and try to help with any questions and share they’re knowledge with other people. So thank you to everybody who has helped me in the past with answering my questions.

Happy Model Railroading

Robert
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Offline Goofy  
#30 Posted : 07 March 2018 09:25:49(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post



How else would you test if the weight is causing the problem?

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


Support members here and not start provoce!



I am supporting; you just don't get it and only sees what you want to see, which as usual is provocations.

So far your own "help" in this case has been to tell that Märklin tracks are "bad quality"; which is the same answer you give no matter what product from Märklin we are discussing.

That really doesn't help solving the problem.

Per.



What solving the problem!???
When i did had problem with the diesel locomotive you did provoce by saying weight problem.
That was not the problem but you did keep on by provoce anyway.
Yours attitude are bad.
What you are supporting are provoce.

Thewolf did asked after help how to fix the problem about chort circuit and if you want help him to answer correct instead and not fight by provoce.
I know friends who use Märklin C-tracks and they do have problem.
I have even seen in the youtube about Davids layout with the C-tracks and i could see his trains jerk sometimes on the layout.
I´m glad i don´t drive Märklin and theirs tracks.
It sucks!

Thewolf...i hope you did solved the problem and if you did it please write by confirm problem.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline cookee_nz  
#31 Posted : 07 March 2018 11:45:14(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
I'm locking this thread. It started off fine, but then an innocent comment was taken (incorrectly) as an insult and down it went.

For crying out loud, GROW UP!
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#32 Posted : 08 March 2018 10:16:57(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
In addition to what Cookee has said, this thread is another example why Juhan does not want members to self moderate when things go wrong, but rather use the 'Report' button so that the Moderators can deal with issues and......well, moderate!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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