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Exorcism of electrical demons when digital on M
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Offline Writhdar  
#1 Posted : 17 February 2009 23:39:30(UTC)
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Writhdar


Joined: 19/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: Durango, Colorado
A lighter vein to offset the "doom & gloom" - This is regarding digital operations on an M track layout.

does anyone have an effective ritual for exorcising the electrical demons, evil spirits, etc that, when running on M track, occaisionally cause the locomotives to stutter - or stop & start - with electric shorting symbols appearing on the MS?

It is quite sporadic but random. It usually occurs on the curved section of a turnout but has happened once or twice on straight track. When it occurs, it is usually when running slowly - e.g., 2 - 3 bars on the MS speed. For a particular turnout, it can be both direction-into-the-turnout dependent as well as whether the loco is going forward or reverse. It also seems to like to not happen when I am close to the switch in question - but if I turn away!

I've looked at the switches in question - including the use of a magnifying light setup, but see nothing obvious. I successfully replaced one that had a >50% occurance of the "electrische bose geist(?)" when the loco, in forward, went into the curved portion (but only in that specific situation) - but see no physical difference between the "good" & "bad" ones. I nailed down track in the event that a slight track rippling wave was the cause - worked in one case but not another.

An earlier event caused me to wonder if I had been "hexed" by someone - I finally got a functional 5128 doubleslip but discovered there was no track current leaving one of its four legs - solved that but then, using my own straight M track sections extending from this leg, had the lack of current occur at the end of the straight section - replaced that and it occured one section after that - anyway problem finally solved but having a lack of conductance hopscotch its way down the track sections really surprised me.

So, basically a trivial issue but I'd rather think on it than think about our present economic situation. And I'm open to rituals that might expel the demons.
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Offline sudibarba  
#2 Posted : 18 February 2009 03:16:42(UTC)
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sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Writhdar
<br />A lighter vein to offset the "doom & gloom" - This is regarding digital operations on an M track layout.

does anyone have an effective ritual for exorcising the electrical demons, evil spirits, etc that, when running on M track, occaisionally cause the locomotives to stutter - or stop & start - with electric shorting symbols appearing on the MS?

It is quite sporadic but random. It usually occurs on the curved section of a turnout but has happened once or twice on straight track. When it occurs, it is usually when running slowly - e.g., 2 - 3 bars on the MS speed. For a particular turnout, it can be both direction-into-the-turnout dependent as well as whether the loco is going forward or reverse. It also seems to like to not happen when I am close to the switch in question - but if I turn away!

I've looked at the switches in question - including the use of a magnifying light setup, but see nothing obvious. I successfully replaced one that had a &gt;50% occurance of the "electrische bose geist(?)" when the loco, in forward, went into the curved portion (but only in that specific situation) - but see no physical difference between the "good" & "bad" ones. I nailed down track in the event that a slight track rippling wave was the cause - worked in one case but not another.

An earlier event caused me to wonder if I had been "hexed" by someone - I finally got a functional 5128 doubleslip but discovered there was no track current leaving one of its four legs - solved that but then, using my own straight M track sections extending from this leg, had the lack of current occur at the end of the straight section - replaced that and it occured one section after that - anyway problem finally solved but having a lack of conductance hopscotch its way down the track sections really surprised me.

So, basically a trivial issue but I'd rather think on it than think about our present economic situation. And I'm open to rituals that might expel the demons.

I am running 90% M track. All track (C, K or M)are the same electrically. I have no problems. Clean track, good connections etc are the key. A lot of M track is very old and has to be inspected to be sure there are no misformed tracks due to usage.
Eric
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 18 February 2009 03:38:19(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Eric's points cover pretty much what I would say. Sometimes I have been able to solve dead spots by pulling the pukos (the centre stud rail) up with a pair of pliers.

Also, some locomotives are more prone to dead spots than others. Locos with ESU Lokpilot 2.0 decoders were sometimes not that great, whereas locos with 60901 type decoders are much better.
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Offline Writhdar  
#4 Posted : 18 February 2009 04:48:01(UTC)
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Writhdar


Joined: 19/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: Durango, Colorado
Thank you Eric and Bigdaddynz.

The migration of "dead track" from the 5128 would fit with the need for good contacts, etc but the puzzling issue, to me anyway, is the occurance of short circuit symbols on the Mobile Station display on those rare occasions when a loco stutters in a turnout curve. That is, it appears that there is a brief direct contact between the center rail and the track rails via the loco that bypasses the motor - as if the slider were in contact with the center and wheel rails.

The slider looks okay - and the center rail studs seem okay in height (this was the first thing I looked at thinking that a low center rail could cause the slider to contact both the center rail and the metal body of the track). I also checked to see that a stud wasn't too close to the metal track body.

Well, my two year old granddaughter is amused by the loco's stutter so all is not for naught.

Dan
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Offline sudibarba  
#5 Posted : 18 February 2009 05:03:04(UTC)
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sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Writhdar
<br />Thank you Eric and Bigdaddynz.

The migration of "dead track" from the 5128 would fit with the need for good contacts, etc but the puzzling issue, to me anyway, is the occurance of short circuit symbols on the Mobile Station display on those rare occasions when a loco stutters in a turnout curve. That is, it appears that there is a brief direct contact between the center rail and the track rails via the loco that bypasses the motor - as if the slider were in contact with the center and wheel rails.

The slider looks okay - and the center rail studs seem okay in height (this was the first thing I looked at thinking that a low center rail could cause the slider to contact both the center rail and the metal body of the track). I also checked to see that a stud wasn't too close to the metal track body.

Well, my two year old granddaughter is amused by the loco's stutter so all is not for naught.

Dan

I think turnouts are always the weak point. Be sure your slider is clean and maybe replace it anyway. They are only $5 and sometimes I have done it with success even though I could see no problem. I know this is not a good answer, but I don't know how severe your problem is. Detecting a slight problem in an old M track turnout is difficult. I have a lot of used old ones and have swapped out a few (1 or 2) to avoid the hassel of figuring it out. I am sure they can be adjusted if I have to.
Eric




Eric
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 18 February 2009 07:58:35(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Dan, if you have drilled out the M track screw holes to fit larger screws (like I did - the M track screws are hard to come by) you need to watch out that little slivers of metal don't get left behind and cause shorts. I had a few of those, and it took a bit of troubleshooting to find one in particular.
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Offline Writhdar  
#7 Posted : 18 February 2009 21:02:24(UTC)
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Writhdar


Joined: 19/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 207
Location: Durango, Colorado
Thank you again for the input.

I did look for metal shavings/threads but didn't see any - I haven't drilled any screws in (and only screwed some track down after I noticed the shorts).

The issue is a very minor one as it happens so rarely but I am curious about it (and wonder if I should dabble in the supernatural - or maybe telekinetic forces?).

Dan
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 18 February 2009 21:33:26(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sudibarba
<br />All track (C, K or M)are the same electrically.

Well, C track R1 and R2 turnouts have plastic rails inside that prevent shortcuts between slider and rail.
Edit: only C track 3-way turnout has plastic rails; others have insulated metal rails.
C track R9 turnouts have metal rails - and a slight misalignment of the slider can lead to a shortcut.

I heard that with M track a shortcut between wheel and certain Pukos is also possible in some turnouts.
But also check the slider.
Regards
Tom
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