Joined: 25/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 117 Location: phoenix
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Hello, I have completed my first stage of my layout, which has 12 turnouts and 4 signals. However the wiring looks like “a dogs dinner!” So it is time to tidy it up and take the wiring underneath. Tried to search, as sure this has been covered before? So should I drill holes and have the connectors underneath (seems tidier) or do I have the connections on the surface to make removal easier? Thinking of using stick on clips underneath and mounting the block connectors on the wooden supports. Also need to get much more wires to make them uniform? Advice on best practice as am hesitant on starting? Many thanks
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Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,452 Location: Scotland
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At my age I ensure that wiring is easy to get at and at the same time not easily seen. Crawling about under a layout is not always a great idea.
Connectors etc can be placed under buildings and wire covered with scatter material. |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
 3 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
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Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,768 Location: Brisbane, Queensland
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holes for the wires with the connectors underneath. If you find yourself needing to remove a turnout, the small bit of effort to remove the connectors is no big deal. |
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany |
 2 users liked this useful post by applor
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Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,316
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Hello, A good question needs a good answer! Call it what it is, A dogs dinner, a bowl of spaghetti, a birds nest, just to name a few of these wires going here, there and everywhere! My solution was an easy one since most of the electrical cabinets at work had these so I thought why not use them on my layout. I’m referring to wire ways! At work they were metal and so I sourced the plastic ones. I’ve been creating and making model railroads for quite some time and these wire ways are in my opinion a necessity. For about $15.00 you can buy a 1 1/2” X 2” X 96” plastic wire way from your favourite electronics store. With the wire way you can put it in any orientation, cut it to length and best of all have, all your wires will be in a convenient location for that potential and inevitable trouble shooting time under the table!  
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 5 users liked this useful post by michelvr
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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Originally Posted by: joyofmarklin  Hello, I have completed my first stage of my layout, which has 12 turnouts and 4 signals. However the wiring looks like “a dogs dinner!” So it is time to tidy it up and take the wiring underneath. Tried to search, as sure this has been covered before? So should I drill holes and have the connectors underneath (seems tidier) or do I have the connections on the surface to make removal easier? Thinking of using stick on clips underneath and mounting the block connectors on the wooden supports. Also need to get much more wires to make them uniform? Advice on best practice as am hesitant on starting? Many thanks
Hello Solution depends on your shape (how easy you can crawl under the layout), your goals (simple wiring of complex one caused by automation), feedback technology (S88 or conventional contacts. So my solution is one of many and consists of: - using large staples used for construction (roof insulation). This leave a large buckle where it is easy to have wires supported. - this allows easy changes and tracking of cables - this allows the wiring to be not too dense (to avoid mutual induction) between feedback wires and high-current feeders - this method is not costly: electrical or mechanical stapler and staples. Cheers Jean |
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 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 25/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 117 Location: phoenix
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Many thanks for all the advice
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Joined: 05/03/2014(UTC) Posts: 704 Location: Finland
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Hi, I wired my analogue layout under table like this.  Easy to reach and easy to find problem spots if something happens. I hope this helps you Cheers Åke
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 10 users liked this useful post by Br502362
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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A work of art, Åke!
Just like the Marklin factory built layouts.
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 3 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 694 Location: England, South Coast
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My wiring looks like the sort of thing you would find behind the dashboard of an old Alfa Romeo. The dog would turn his nose up at it.
I don't use my layout in the summer but when winter starts to draw in I can be found lying under the layout trying to remember what the hell it was all for.
I have finally grasped the concept of colour coding but it is far from universal and what on earth was orange for anyway????
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 2 users liked this useful post by Michael4
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,882 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Those plastic wire ways are great! I made stick on labels for each turnout run, decoder, etc. And wrapped them around the bundles. That way you know which bundle is which underneath. I hid topside labels under landscape that can easily lift up. Even using red, Brown, green, blue, black and yellow wiring, it gets to look complex. The more you multiplex lighting to save wire use, the more so it gets. Then even though several bundle runs are concealed carry in the channel ways, if the exit areas are labeled, there is no confusion.
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 1 user liked this useful post by marklinist5999
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Joined: 25/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 117 Location: phoenix
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A good analogy Italian wiring! A good fix, thank you
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 1 user liked this useful post by joyofmarklin
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Joined: 16/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 301 Location: Grandvaux - Lausanne - Switzerland
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Hi All We have identified a problem if you run wires together in a conduit. They have to each be shielded otherwise the digital information travelling in each wire can be corrupted. This can cause some weird bugs Tim
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 1 user liked this useful post by Timnomads
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,882 Location: Michigan, Troy
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I've used 20 avg pvc 30mm wire. I don't know if it's shielded, but I have no problems. Rather than conduit, I have wring clipped in 3M Command light clips. I spaced them out about every 3 to 4 ft. The loops are big enough to carry 4 to 6 30mm wires. They can be removed with a tug on the adhesive tab anbd moved and reused.
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Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,801 Location: Crozet, Virginia
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Originally Posted by: Timnomads  We have identified a problem if you run wires together in a conduit... Thanks Tim - that makes sense and would explain some strange bugs that I had in my system after I cleaned up my wiring by bundling things up. Luckily next up for me is a whole new layout and I will have to avoid doing that again. There are so many subtle ways to break a modern MRR layout. I just need to learn to be happy when it all at least appears to work. |
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time. |
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Joined: 25/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 117 Location: phoenix
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Hi,
All good advice! I want to label the wires any suggestions how to and what I write, ie turnout 1. Has been suggested that I drill the holes and turn the table on it’s side. However not able to, so under the table I go! Will tKe my time! Many thanks
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 1 user liked this useful post by joyofmarklin
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,882 Location: Michigan, Troy
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I labeled turnouts with stickers. Numbers or alpha numeric. I used m83 decoders vs. One in each turnout, so those have a,b,c. Turnouts labeled according to the terminals connected to on the decoder. A1, etc. I wrapped each bundle run with sticky long peel off labels. I used colored tape on wires which are red or black, connected to turnout blue, brown, or yellow wires to identify the ends at the decoders. Write down a log of your wiring colors and their routes. I use a separate power supply for my building lighting. Too many to connect to my CS3 with m84 decoders. Some are 16 volt a/c motor driven accessories. An inexpensive train transformer has both fixed 12 and16 volt outputs. Incandescent bulbs can use either. Led lights depending on the resistors. Some are brighter using 16 v.
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Joined: 25/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 117 Location: phoenix
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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
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The problem with labeling things, is that when you change something you also have to change the label. That second step seldom happens.So I work with the following principles: Color code wires as much as possible. - Red = digital signal
- Brown or Black = common ground
- Yellow (thick) = 16V AC bus
- White = 12V DC bus
- Gray then Multicolor strands - s88 sensor
- Blue (thin) = turnout motor return
- yellow (thin) = turnout power
I then only label the big things that are extremely unlikely to change, for example, each big multi-strand bundle of s88 wires are labeled A, B, C, D, etc. but there is no point in labelling the colored wires inside as they all have unique colors. Thus bundle R red+white identifies a specific wire to a sensor without ambiguity. I have labeled my power districts/boosters 1, 2, 3. K83 type modules and s88 modules get numbered consecutively. With this simple approach I can know what any wire is. If it is a turnout, which K83 is it connected to ? Easy. The individual posts on each K83 are already labeled 1- 4 If it is a signal, which signal module is it connected to ? Easy. Output ports are all labeled at the factory. See https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/2016/01/Installing-signals.htmlTrack wires are either red or brown/black. Sensor wires are gray and then connect to a wire in a bundle, follow the wire to the sensor or back to the bundle and you know what it is. See https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/2014/08/s88-cable.html |
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 2 users liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
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Joined: 25/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 117 Location: phoenix
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Thank you very interesting
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 1 user liked this useful post by joyofmarklin
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,882 Location: Michigan, Troy
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It's nice to use all corresponding color wire, however, I find it easier for myself to use double strand wire which is only available in two and of certain colors. Three strand wire is even more rare, unless it's too thin. I also don't like stiff wire that holds it's bent shapes. It's also brittle, and can break if stretched, or bent too often. A wrap of yellow tape on the end of a red wire and I know what it is. I do it for each connection. The Marklin plugs and sockets can also be used that way, but I don't prefer the new style so much. It's hard to tell the plugs from the sockets in dim lighting, and I've stripped a few screws. They must be of lesser quality than the old ones.
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Joined: 05/07/2020(UTC) Posts: 326 Location: Mississippi, Vancleave
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Wiring is usually once finished, "out-of-sight, out-of-mind". I use telephone wire cable which consists of 4-paired wires of 22 gauge. It is used only for turnout control. Each turnout uses a common wire that connects to a buss and the solenoid control to the 2 wire pair in the cable. Each cable can accomodate 4 turnouts that helps keep the wiring simple. A black and white wire (14 ga) is used as a buss to distribute track power. I don't like to work under the bench due to age, but this minimizes that. I am working on a catenary system that will keep wiring simple. All poles and the wires are brass and have a common polarity, so only one wire is needed. Lightning can be accomplished using surface wiring covered with tape, as I'm using low voltage LED lamps. The tape can be covered by scenery.. My layout is a "plan-as-you-go", so it's back and forth between the layout and Autocad software on my computer. At my age (86), it's imperative that I keep everything simple and readily accessible. Underneath benchwork is not in my plans. As I progress, I am discovering and inventing ways to make the wiring process as painless as possible. Since I am going straight analog wiring, I won't have a problem with cross wiring interference. Once I get it completed, I will update how it's done.
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 1 user liked this useful post by Mr. Ron
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Joined: 25/06/2012(UTC) Posts: 117 Location: phoenix
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