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Offline ozburg  
#1 Posted : 17 April 2012 17:05:55(UTC)
ozburg


Joined: 30/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Australia
Hi,

I

Edited by user 04 July 2014 10:00:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Ian555  
#2 Posted : 17 April 2012 17:50:39(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 20,240
Location: Scotland
Hi Dave,

Welcome to the forum. ThumpUp

Ian.
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#3 Posted : 17 April 2012 18:14:42(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
Hi Dave,

Are you sure it is Gauge 2? I don't think Marklin made this PLM in Gauge 2 (only O Gauge and 1 Gauge). Especially since the model number ends in "1" I believe it is "Gauge 1." Most likely it was not "special order" but rather for the Chilean market (I assume the destination signs have the cities from Chile). It is possible, however, that there are other markings which I cannot see making it more special. Many times in foreign countries Marklin trains would be used as high-class gifts for government officials. I have seen some of these in Argentina, Mexico, and Spain. Dating is around the 1920s but I don't have catalogs in front of me now to check.

Best regards,

Paul
Offline ozburg  
#4 Posted : 17 April 2012 19:18:50(UTC)
ozburg


Joined: 30/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Australia
Hi Paul,

Edited by user 04 July 2014 10:01:17(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#5 Posted : 17 April 2012 19:41:59(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
Glad the info was helpful.

I'm still not sure it's Gauge 2 as I said I don't think Marklin made the PLM in Gauge 2. The difference between Gauge 2 and Gauge 1 is very minimal (much less than the difference between O and 1) so it is possible that it's Gauge 1 but just looks a little bigger. I'm interested to see the cars and any special markings.

I think this is a Marklin H 64 13021 (but there are other versions of the PLM with different model #)

See this one which looks similar: http://www.tinplatetimes...rklin%20H6413021/h64.htm

Best regards,

Paul
Offline ozburg  
#6 Posted : 17 April 2012 20:09:39(UTC)
ozburg


Joined: 30/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Australia
, thanks

Edited by user 04 July 2014 10:04:09(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline ozburg  
#7 Posted : 17 April 2012 20:19:42(UTC)
ozburg


Joined: 30/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Australia
Hi Paul,
. Regards,

Edited by user 04 July 2014 10:01:51(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#8 Posted : 17 April 2012 20:24:45(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
Great thanks for uploading more photos.

I'm fairly certain it's Gauge 1 but can't explain the measurements. Perhaps another forum member will provide some insight.

At a first look the coaches do have the Chilean market destination plates which are very rare (for serious collectors). The rust makes it hard to identify any possible special markings.

We'll find out more tomorrow

Paul

Edit: I noticed another thing....you're might actually be spirit fired...I noticed it has no "20 V" tag on the side and I can't see the motor brush caps. In which case this is a "PLM 4021" model (still Gauge 1).

Edited by user 18 April 2012 02:17:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Markus Schild  
#9 Posted : 18 April 2012 08:23:44(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi,

This is a 1-gauge loco. Gauge 1 is 45mm (~1 3/4 inch), gauge 2 is 64 mm (~2 1/2 inch).
The gauge is measured between the rails. Not on the outside of the wheels. I marked which distance should be taken:

UserPostedImage
UserPostedImage

So this is without doubt ~1.7 inch.

The loco has the number H1021 because it's a clockwork version. Märklin made this loco also in electric (H 64/3021 high current// H 64/13021 low current) and steam types (H4021).

Regards

Markus

Edit: In former times Gauge 1 was also specified as 48mm. This is the distance between the centres of the heads of the rails.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Markus Schild
Offline ozburg  
#10 Posted : 18 April 2012 08:24:43(UTC)
ozburg


Joined: 30/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Australia
logo on base

Edited by user 04 July 2014 10:02:54(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline ozburg  
#11 Posted : 18 April 2012 08:31:10(UTC)
ozburg


Joined: 30/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Australia
Hi

Edited by user 04 July 2014 10:09:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Western Pacific  
#12 Posted : 18 April 2012 13:02:16(UTC)
Western Pacific

Sweden   
Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 841
Location: Lidingö, Sweden
Based on the fact that the inscriptions on the interior of the coach are in French, I believe these models have been modified from models marked as from the French Railway PLM with destination signs from Chile.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Western Pacific
Offline CCS800KrokHunter3  
#13 Posted : 18 April 2012 17:24:59(UTC)
CCS800KrokHunter3

United States   
Joined: 03/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,605
Originally Posted by: Western Pacific Go to Quoted Post
Based on the fact that the inscriptions on the interior of the coach are in French, I believe these models have been modified from models marked as from the French Railway PLM with destination signs from Chile.


That's a very good explanation of this. And thanks Markus for clearing up the model numbers.....Looks like we were able to figure it all out.

Dave, I bet it wouldn't be too hard to clean the rust off the destination signs. They were lacquered very heavily but it would be best to check if the rust has gone deep below the paint first.

Best regards,

Paul
Offline cookee_nz  
#14 Posted : 20 April 2012 12:30:15(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,955
Location: Paremata, Wellington
How's this for a coincidence, check out this item on Ebay...

Marklin 1924 Catalogue auction - Ebay

Auction is for a reprint of the 1924 catalogue, and guess what the loco is on the front cover - looks to me a LOT like yours. BigGrin

I'd suggest bidding on the catalogue because you'll probably find everything you need within.

PS - for my 'spotting fee', all I ask is a scan of the catalogue for my (slowly growing) 'archives' ThumpUp ThumpUp

My oldest copy is a 1905 US catalogue and your loco is NOT in there, nor the 1906 supplement.

Hope this helps

Cookee
Melbourne
cookee_nz attached the following image(s):
1924.jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline ozburg  
#15 Posted : 20 April 2012 15:37:33(UTC)
ozburg


Joined: 30/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 20
Location: Australia
Hi

Edited by user 04 July 2014 10:03:22(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline cookee_nz  
#16 Posted : 21 April 2012 00:06:38(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,955
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: ozburg Go to Quoted Post
Hi Paul and Cookee,

I've been away in the bush working, and only just read your replies. Firstly, Paul, I like the idea of cleaning up those destination signs, and will have a go at it next week. Thanks for all your input on this one, next week I'll have to post a picture of the Marklin I'm about to try and build a layout for, 3 rail electric.

Also, Cookee from Melbourne, thanks for spotting that catalogue, it looks very interesting. I hope I haven't missed the auction, I"m gonna jump on there and have a look tonight.

And yes mate, if I get it I would be happy to send you a colour scan. Cheers Dave B


No worries Dave, it's still active with a $29 'buy it now' which I think is a good price, unless someone here already has an electronic copy of course they are willing to contribute.

I got my 1904 'H' catalogue (100 pages) and supplement 1905 / 1906 reprints (around 30 pages each) several years ago and they cost me close to $100 - but they are good copies and with over 150 double-sided pages there's lots of info within.

Not really of interest to those who are only into the more modern railway-only items, but for those interested in the wider Marklin history, and the enormous range of other products they produced, it's a fascinating read.

I started scanning them some time ago but because they are comb-bound I decided it would be much quicker for me to unbind them and just wait until I have the opportunity on one of the large autoscanners I work with then it will be just a few minutes work rather than a few hours scanning and saving page by page.

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline chuckk  
#17 Posted : 23 May 2012 19:36:52(UTC)
chuckk

United States   
Joined: 30/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 14
Hi Ozburg, did you buy the 1924 marklin catalog from E-Bay? What is your opinion on quality and content? I see they have another copy up so I was curious if it was worth the price.
thanks Chuckk
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