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Offline jasondixon  
#1 Posted : 21 October 2013 10:37:11(UTC)
jasondixon

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/01/2011(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Hampshire, UK
Hi all,

I found this amongst a box of stuff I bought. Obviously, it's a decoder of sorts, but that's all I know. Anyone have any idea if it's digital or Delta (I assume the latter), and which colour wires correspond to what? I'm thinking about doing my first conversion with it on an old railbus I have, as if I make a mess of it I haven't really got anything to lose. Any help (esp. photos) on fitting these would be fantastic.

Thanks
jasondixon attached the following image(s):
decoder.JPG
Offline jvuye  
#2 Posted : 21 October 2013 10:57:42(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: jasondixon Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I found this amongst a box of stuff I bought. Obviously, it's a decoder of sorts, but that's all I know. Anyone have any idea if it's digital or Delta (I assume the latter), and which colour wires correspond to what? I'm thinking about doing my first conversion with it on an old railbus I have, as if I make a mess of it I haven't really got anything to lose. Any help (esp. photos) on fitting these would be fantastic.

Thanks


Would love to help....but can we have a picture of the "this"?Wink

Cheers

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline jasondixon  
#3 Posted : 21 October 2013 14:37:07(UTC)
jasondixon

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/01/2011(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Hampshire, UK
Oops!!! Photo uploaded successfully this time :)

Offline jvuye  
#4 Posted : 21 October 2013 15:46:07(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: jasondixon Go to Quoted Post
Oops!!! Photo uploaded successfully this time :)



That is a 6080, first generation digital decoder, ca 1985.
It is missing the two red and brown supply cables.

If you need their location I can send you a pic on where to re-attach them.

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline jasondixon  
#5 Posted : 21 October 2013 16:39:15(UTC)
jasondixon

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/01/2011(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Hampshire, UK
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jasondixon Go to Quoted Post
Oops!!! Photo uploaded successfully this time :)



That is a 6080, first generation digital decoder, ca 1985.
It is missing the two red and brown supply cables.

If you need their location I can send you a pic on where to re-attach them.

Cheers


That would be great. Do you have the whole list of connections too?
Offline jvuye  
#6 Posted : 21 October 2013 18:46:43(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Here it is.
It is a 6080, for Märklin's historical wire wound stator motors (aka Universal motor)

Red: power pick up (center rail)

Brown: power return (chassis)

Green and blue : left and right winding of the stator

Black : to the brush that is*not* connected to the common of the stator

Yellow: front light

Grey: rear light

Have fun
jvuye attached the following image(s):
lite6080.jpg
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline biedmatt  
#7 Posted : 21 October 2013 19:20:49(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
UserPostedImage[/URL]

I replaced all of these with LoPi V4s. They can be had for $33US and have load control plus many other great features.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline cookee_nz  
#8 Posted : 21 October 2013 19:49:17(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,955
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: jasondixon Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I found this amongst a box of stuff I bought. Obviously, it's a decoder of sorts, but that's all I know. Anyone have any idea if it's digital or Delta (I assume the latter), and which colour wires correspond to what? I'm thinking about doing my first conversion with it on an old railbus I have, as if I make a mess of it I haven't really got anything to lose. Any help (esp. photos) on fitting these would be fantastic.

Thanks


As others have said, it's Marklin's first generation Digital Decoder. VERY basic in features, but if you are putting it into an older suitable model (and the Railbus is perfect for that, also something like a 3000 or any other really common basic loco) then it may still be better than nothing at all, particularly if you are not completely used to the features and operation of the newer generation units.

It will give you smooth reversing, and directional control of headlights, and 80 addresses to choose from but that's it. But still better than a mechanical reverse unit.

If nothing else you will have a bit of Retro-Digital in your fleet.

Cheers

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline jasondixon  
#9 Posted : 22 October 2013 18:14:34(UTC)
jasondixon

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/01/2011(UTC)
Posts: 33
Location: Hampshire, UK
Thanks all. Loads of useful info. Guess I'll give it a try in my rail bus and if it goes bang it's no big deal.
Offline Jay  
#10 Posted : 07 November 2013 14:32:03(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Hi Marklin-users,

I do hope its no crime to make a new inquiry under this topic,I just did not want to unnecessarily start a new topic.
Please moderators move if need be.I'd like to know what decoder the the K class Wurttemburg 37059 has.Is it delta
or Fx digital and should I change this decoder for any reason. I don't mind manually registering the loco to my
mobile station or in the future a CS. I would however like good pulling power as I will have a steep incline on my
to be built layout.

Thanks in advance
Kind regards
Jay
PS, it has its original decoder presently.
Offline BrandonVA  
#11 Posted : 07 November 2013 14:58:00(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Jay,

37059 had a FX decoder from the factory. Generally model numbers 36xx, 37xx, 37xxx, 39xxxx have digital decoders of some kind and not delta. Typically Delta numbers can be 33xx, 34xx, 33xxx and 34xxx. Of course there are exceptions, like not all 33xx are Delta (many are analog).

You will have to manually register it with CS/CS2/MS/MS2 as you suspect, but not a big deal.

As far as grade operation, it would probably help you if this decoder had load control. I do not know the answer (I suspect it does), but others will.

-Brandon
Offline Jay  
#12 Posted : 07 November 2013 15:48:35(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Hi Brandon,

Many thanks for the quick reply,much appreciated.However I am also keen to know what the difference is between the Delta and a digital decoder?
Lots to learn about digital!!!. Could somebody please direct me to an instruction manual?

Thanks again
Cheers
Jay
Offline BrandonVA  
#13 Posted : 07 November 2013 16:46:48(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Jay,

I'm still learning myself, as I only more recently got into digital. You can go to www.maerklin.com and look up product numbers for items released over the last 10 years. Generally with locomotives, it will tell you the basic type (Delta, FX, MFX, etc).

As far as the difference:

Delta - Simple entry level digital system. This allowed for a somewhat limited number of locos to be run. Most Delta locos in my experience also run very well under analog control. Most Delta decoders will also run under full digital operation. However, Delta decoders are simple, they generally don't have a lot of features and are pretty basic. Some can support basic functions (lights on/off, telex). To my knowledge, they don't have advanced features like load control (which keeps a loco's speed consistent despite grades), etc. For the most part Delta is the thing of the past. Marklin dosn't sell many locos today with Delta decoders, and the ones that are Delta are entry-level models.

Digital - Digital has been out from Marklin sine 1984. Since that time it's obviously gone through a lot of changes, and a lot of different decoder types (c80, c90, c90x, etc). Generally, the newer the loco the more advanced the digital decoder (but not always). There have been different protocols supported by decoders, etc. New decoders have a lot of speed steps, allowing very fine control of speed, often support a lot of functions, etc. It's hit or miss whether a Digital locomotive will run well under analog control (not a concern for most), depends on the decoder and motor. The controllers for digital have always been more advanced, making it the more advanced option.

My honest recommendation is if you don't have a digital controller, but are interested, just pick up a Mobil Station 2. They are very affordable and support a lot. It doesn't stop you from getting a CS2 later, as MS2 can be used with CS2.

-Brandon

Offline Jay  
#14 Posted : 07 November 2013 17:06:02(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Hi Brandon,

Thank you again for the detailed reply,I am learning much already and also thanks for pointing me to the Marklin site
for more info.

Kind regards
Jay
Offline BrandonVA  
#15 Posted : 07 November 2013 17:13:52(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Jay,

The Marklin US site (www.marklin.com) has some info about digital too...but it's extremely dated, so maybe not that helpful except for learning the history of the system.

Thanks,

-Brandon
Offline Webmaster  
#16 Posted : 07 November 2013 19:38:46(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
You could actually put it this way too...

Delta is Digital "light".

It uses the same digital format as Digital (the non-mfx kind) but has less addresses available in the decoders.
Digital locos can be run with a delta decoder if it is set to one of the Delta Control addresses, and Delta locos can be run on Digital.

Basically the Delta loco decoders replaced the older c80 decoder mentioned earlier in this topic.
The last version of the Delta loco decoder could address all 80 addresses in the Digital system (pre-mfx, that is...) and also had the lights function just as c80.


You can see possible Delta decoder address settings here: https://www.marklin-user...digital/Dideltaaddr.html (a very old page... )
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline Jay  
#17 Posted : 08 November 2013 01:39:31(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Hi Juan,

Thanks for also helping me out with this inquiry. I was able to locate the decoder in the tender,after lifting up the coal load.
There are 8 dip switches with 4 & 5 in the on position,so this does not correspond to the list thats refered to by you, which
Only has 4 dip switches. Could this then be a later decoder probably an Fx as suggested by Brandon VA. If true I will be
Relieved as I then do not have to change the decoder for something newer as I have been reading on the forum when
Members were upgrading. Is an Fx decoder a delta decoder? So many questions,please be patient with me I think I
eventually will get there :-).

Kind regards
Jay
Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 08 November 2013 08:14:37(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Jay Go to Quoted Post
Could this then be a later decoder probably an Fx as suggested by Brandon VA.
You can trust Brandon with respect to that: locos with a 37xxx ref. number never have Delta decoders ex works. Almost all 37xxx locos have fx decoders.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline BrandonVA  
#19 Posted : 08 November 2013 14:46:34(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Originally Posted by: Jay Go to Quoted Post
Hi Juan,

Is an Fx decoder a delta decoder? So many questions,please be patient with me I think I
eventually will get there :-).

Kind regards
Jay


Jay,

An FX decoder is not a Delta decoder. What Juhan is saying is that Delta decoders really are digital decoders, they use the same protocol. Marklin just called it Delta to offer a "simplified" system. However, they are still more basic and limited than true digital decoders. Here are a couple of comparison sof Delta and Digital:
http://www.marklin.com/tech/digital1/comparison.html
http://www.ajckids.com/TRAINS/MAIN.ASP?nr=22
Keep in mind this info is a bit dated, digital is more advanced now.

Back to your FX decoder: Digital decoders also had dip switches, not just Delta. The same as Delta, these dip switches can be set in order to set a digital address on a locomotive. The address table for the 4 switch delta decoders will not be accurate for this decoder. I can't find it easily, but I am sure someone on the forum has an address table for the 8 switch decoder. If you have the original locomotive manual, this table will also be listed there.

This reference may also be helpful for future projects. It seems confusing, but in time things will become more clear with experience:
http://www.bogobit.de/decoder/dectype.html

-Brandon
Offline Jay  
#20 Posted : 08 November 2013 23:31:45(UTC)
Jay

South Africa   
Joined: 01/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 303
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Brandon

Wow,that was going to be my next question! What are the different types of decoders that originally came with Marklin locos?
And what decoders are reccomended for the different Marklin analogue locomotives? But you have already pre empted
them and kindly provided sources to the answers. The reason for these questions is that I have and also intend to buy used
Analogue locos and convert them to digital. But beleive me Brandon there are more questions comming the forum's way
as I dabble in these conversions. Knowing that I have the knowledge of the forum members to draw upon makes me
feel confident. This is going to be a long process as I have very little time and also spend long periods away from home.

Thanks
Jay
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Offline BrandonVA  
#21 Posted : 11 November 2013 16:43:01(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Jay,

I'm probably not the best one for conversions. There are quiet a few threads about conversions you could look into. Which decoder to use probably depends on what you want (do you want sound, etc? or just basic driving functions). Also, when converting the loco motor will need to be replaced on older analog models in most cases...there are options for this, but it depends on the motor a particular loco has installed. I would recommend that if you have a specific model in mind, perhaps start a new topic about converting it and get feedback from those here at the forum who have done a lot of conversions.

Thanks,
-Brandon
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Offline RayF  
#22 Posted : 11 November 2013 19:09:35(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Jay Go to Quoted Post
Brandon

Wow,that was going to be my next question! What are the different types of decoders that originally came with Marklin locos?
And what decoders are reccomended for the different Marklin analogue locomotives? But you have already pre empted
them and kindly provided sources to the answers. The reason for these questions is that I have and also intend to buy used
Analogue locos and convert them to digital. But beleive me Brandon there are more questions comming the forum's way
as I dabble in these conversions. Knowing that I have the knowledge of the forum members to draw upon makes me
feel confident. This is going to be a long process as I have very little time and also spend long periods away from home.

Thanks
Jay



Hi Jay, This list will partly answer your questions. If you need more explanation let me know.


Decoders and motor kits

Obsolete:
6080 – Original Marklin digital decoder. DIP switches for address, lights on/off is only function, no load regulation
6603 – Original delta decoder. Only 15 addresses available, lights work when loco runs Address selection by solder pads
6603 (later) – same as original but address selection by 4 DIP switches
66031 – Later delta decoder with additional function for telex
6090 - high efficiency decoder with DIP switches for address and on-board controls for acceleration/braking delay and max speed. Only F0 (lights) supported
60901 – DCM 3 to 5 pole conversion kit + 60902 decoder
60902 – high efficiency decoder with DIP switches for address and on-board controls for acceleration/braking delay and max speed F0 to F4 supported
60903 – SFCM to DCM 5 pole conversion kit + 60902 decoder
60904 – LFCM to DCM 5 pole conversion kit + 60902 decoder
60905 – Decoder like 60902 but set up for Can motors
60921 - DCM 3 to 5 pole conversion kit + MFX decoder
60922 – MFX decoder
60923 - SFCM to DCM 5 pole conversion kit + MFX decoder
60924 - LFCM to DCM 5 pole conversion kit + MFX decoder
60931 – MFX decoder with Steam loco sounds
60932 – MFX decoder with Diesel loco sounds
60933 – MFX decoder with Electric loco sounds

Current:
66032 - Delta decoder for converting to digital without changing the field coil.
60760 - DCM 3 to 5 pole conversion kit + basic FX decoder
60940 – MSD MFX sound decoder un-amplified outputs, 21 pin connector, downloadable sounds
60941 - DCM 3 to 5 pole conversion kit, no decoder
60942 – MLD MFX decoder with 21 pin connector and circuit board
60943 - SFCM to DCM 5 pole conversion kit, no decoder
60944 - LFCM to DCM 5 pole conversion kit, no decoder
60945 – MSD MFX sound decoder, 21 pin connector and circuit board, Steam loco sounds
60946 - MSD MFX sound decoder, 21 pin connector and circuit board, Diesel loco sounds
60947 - MSD MFX sound decoder, 21 pin connector and circuit board, Electric loco sounds
60948 - MSD MFX sound decoder, 21 pin connector and circuit board for Hobby locos, Diesel loco sounds
60949 - MSD MFX sound decoder, 21 pin connector and circuit board for Hobby locos, Electric loco sounds
60962 - MLD MFX decoder with wiring harness
60965 - MSD MFX sound decoder, wiring harness, Steam loco sounds
60966 - MSD MFX sound decoder, wiring harness, Diesel loco sounds
60967 - MSD MFX sound decoder, wiring harness, Electric loco sounds
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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