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Offline gbrendem  
#1 Posted : 05 February 2021 14:26:03(UTC)
gbrendem

Norway   
Joined: 05/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Øyer
Hi, I'm trying to insert a sound decoder into a BR110 locomotive Märklin, old type.
The engine on this has been changed.
The manual has been followed, but it only lights up at both ends of the locomotive when I try it?
It is Märklin Sound-Decoder mSD (Not NEM) Pictures can be sendt.
Thanks.



Online H0  
#2 Posted : 05 February 2021 15:07:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,340
Location: DE-NW
Some locos with C Sine motor require a NEM decoder to work. Non-NEM decoders cannot provide the power the C Sine motor driver board needs.

Which loco is it? Which decoder is it?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline mike c  
#3 Posted : 05 February 2021 18:11:05(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,264
Location: Montreal, QC
Please post the model number or if not readily available, photos of the model.
can you also post a photo of the chassis of the locomotive, showing the decoder and the wiring?

Regards

Mike C
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
Offline gbrendem  
#4 Posted : 06 February 2021 11:15:08(UTC)
gbrendem

Norway   
Joined: 05/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Øyer
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Some locos with C Sine motor require a NEM decoder to work. Non-NEM decoders cannot provide the power the C Sine motor driver board needs.

Which loco is it? Which decoder is it?


Thanks for your answer.

It's a BR 110 234 - 2. Decoder Märklin Digital "60967 Conversion Decoder Set for a Electric Locomotive"

Offline bph  
#5 Posted : 06 February 2021 14:19:48(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Some locos with C Sine motor require a NEM decoder to work. Non-NEM decoders cannot provide the power the C Sine motor driver board needs.

Which loco is it? Which decoder is it?


Thanks for your answer.

It's a BR 110 234 - 2. Decoder Märklin Digital "60967 Conversion Decoder Set for a Electric Locomotive"



your locomotive originally has a "regular" motor, so the decoder has no problem running it, as long as you have installed a permanent magnet motor.

A common thing to forget with the 60967 decoder is that it does not use the Märklin colour codes on the wires. Double check that you have wired it up according to the NEM colour codes as described in the 60967 manual.

please post pictures of how motor, decoder and light are wired up.

the decoder could also be faulty or have been programmed wrongly?
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline gbrendem  
#6 Posted : 06 February 2021 19:32:44(UTC)
gbrendem

Norway   
Joined: 05/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Øyer
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Some locos with C Sine motor require a NEM decoder to work. Non-NEM decoders cannot provide the power the C Sine motor driver board needs.

Which loco is it? Which decoder is it?


Thanks for your answer.

It's a BR 110 234 - 2. Decoder Märklin Digital "60967 Conversion Decoder Set for a Electric Locomotive"



your locomotive originally has a "regular" motor, so the decoder has no problem running it, as long as you have installed a permanent magnet motor.

A common thing to forget with the 60967 decoder is that it does not use the Märklin colour codes on the wires. Double check that you have wired it up according to the NEM colour codes as described in the 60967 manual.

please post pictures of how motor, decoder and light are wired up.

the decoder could also be faulty or have been programmed wrongly?


IMG_0980.jpeg
Offline gbrendem  
#7 Posted : 06 February 2021 19:34:45(UTC)
gbrendem

Norway   
Joined: 05/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Øyer
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Some locos with C Sine motor require a NEM decoder to work. Non-NEM decoders cannot provide the power the C Sine motor driver board needs.

Which loco is it? Which decoder is it?


Thanks for your answer.

It's a BR 110 234 - 2. Decoder Märklin Digital "60967 Conversion Decoder Set for a Electric Locomotive"



your locomotive originally has a "regular" motor, so the decoder has no problem running it, as long as you have installed a permanent magnet motor.

A common thing to forget with the 60967 decoder is that it does not use the Märklin colour codes on the wires. Double check that you have wired it up according to the NEM colour codes as described in the 60967 manual.

please post pictures of how motor, decoder and light are wired up.

the decoder could also be faulty or have been programmed wrongly?


IMG_0984.jpeg

Offline gbrendem  
#8 Posted : 06 February 2021 19:36:47(UTC)
gbrendem

Norway   
Joined: 05/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Øyer
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Some locos with C Sine motor require a NEM decoder to work. Non-NEM decoders cannot provide the power the C Sine motor driver board needs.

Which loco is it? Which decoder is it?


Thanks for your answer.

It's a BR 110 234 - 2. Decoder Märklin Digital "60967 Conversion Decoder Set for a Electric Locomotive"



your locomotive originally has a "regular" motor, so the decoder has no problem running it, as long as you have installed a permanent magnet motor.

A common thing to forget with the 60967 decoder is that it does not use the Märklin colour codes on the wires. Double check that you have wired it up according to the NEM colour codes as described in the 60967 manual.

please post pictures of how motor, decoder and light are wired up.

the decoder could also be faulty or have been programmed wrongly?


IMG_0981.jpeg


Offline gbrendem  
#9 Posted : 06 February 2021 19:39:40(UTC)
gbrendem

Norway   
Joined: 05/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Øyer
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Some locos with C Sine motor require a NEM decoder to work. Non-NEM decoders cannot provide the power the C Sine motor driver board needs.

Which loco is it? Which decoder is it?


Thanks for your answer.

It's a BR 110 234 - 2. Decoder Märklin Digital "60967 Conversion Decoder Set for a Electric Locomotive"



your locomotive originally has a "regular" motor, so the decoder has no problem running it, as long as you have installed a permanent magnet motor.

A common thing to forget with the 60967 decoder is that it does not use the Märklin colour codes on the wires. Double check that you have wired it up according to the NEM colour codes as described in the 60967 manual.

please post pictures of how motor, decoder and light are wired up.

the decoder could also be faulty or have been programmed wrongly?


Thanks for help.

I hope you will figure it out and help me?

I hope you can see my pictures there?

Offline Crazy Harry  
#10 Posted : 06 February 2021 21:40:41(UTC)
Crazy Harry

Canada   
Joined: 18/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 419
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

A common thing to forget with the 60967 decoder is that it does not use the Märklin colour codes on the wires. Double check that you have wired it up according to the NEM colour codes as described in the 60967 manual


As noted above, the 60967 decoder follows the NEM colour codes, refer to page 27 of your manual (not page 28). Grey and orange go to the motor not the light as your pictures show.

Harold.
Offline nhumps  
#11 Posted : 06 February 2021 22:11:29(UTC)
nhumps

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: Wellington
I would recommend heat shrink on (all joins for that matter) both the chokes where joining to the motor output wires (blue and green) - articulation of the bogie can make those touch the chassis and or permanent magnet and ground out which will make a short.

Potentially grounding any outputs from the decoder can blow it, such as the sound ones (Sadly I have done this with an msd3 before)
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by nhumps
Offline bph  
#12 Posted : 06 February 2021 22:42:14(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post


your locomotive originally has a "regular" motor, so the decoder has no problem running it, as long as you have installed a permanent magnet motor.

A common thing to forget with the 60967 decoder is that it does not use the Märklin colour codes on the wires. Double check that you have wired it up according to the NEM colour codes as described in the 60967 manual.

please post pictures of how motor, decoder and light are wired up.

the decoder could also be faulty or have been programmed wrongly?


Thanks for help.

I hope you will figure it out and help me?

I hope you can see my pictures there?



It seems like you have mixed up the wire colours and wired acording marklin standard. If you take a look at the german version in the manual on page 5, it says "Die Kabelfarben am Decoder sind nach Norm NEM 652". But it seems that Marklin forgot to translate that important notice and put it on page 27 (The wire colours on the decoder are according to the NEM 652 standard.)

So wire up the decoder according to the NEM table on page 27 in the 60967 manual.


thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline bph  
#13 Posted : 06 February 2021 23:02:48(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post

IMG_0981.jpeg


And make sure the light bulb ground is not concected to the chassis before you wire up with the blue wire. (Common Wire for Lights)



thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline gbrendem  
#14 Posted : 06 February 2021 23:57:40(UTC)
gbrendem

Norway   
Joined: 05/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Øyer
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post


your locomotive originally has a "regular" motor, so the decoder has no problem running it, as long as you have installed a permanent magnet motor.

A common thing to forget with the 60967 decoder is that it does not use the Märklin colour codes on the wires. Double check that you have wired it up according to the NEM colour codes as described in the 60967 manual.

please post pictures of how motor, decoder and light are wired up.

the decoder could also be faulty or have been programmed wrongly?


Thanks for help.

I hope you will figure it out and help me?

I hope you can see my pictures there?



It seems like you have mixed up the wire colours and wired acording marklin standard. If you take a look at the german version in the manual on page 5, it says "Die Kabelfarben am Decoder sind nach Norm NEM 652". But it seems that Marklin forgot to translate that important notice and put it on page 27 (The wire colours on the decoder are according to the NEM 652 standard.)

So wire up the decoder according to the NEM table on page 27 in the 60967 manual.




Thanks a lot for your help.

Should the two speakers be connected. There is red and black wire on them. How to connect them to work properly?

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by gbrendem
bph
Offline bph  
#15 Posted : 07 February 2021 11:25:39(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post


Thanks a lot for your help.

Should the two speakers be connected. There is red and black wire on them. How to connect them to work properly?



Hi, connect only one speaker to the brown wires. polarity is not marked on the decoder wires.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline gbrendem  
#16 Posted : 07 February 2021 11:36:07(UTC)
gbrendem

Norway   
Joined: 05/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Øyer
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post


Thanks a lot for your help.

Should the two speakers be connected. There is red and black wire on them. How to connect them to work properly?



Hi, connect only one speaker to the brown wires. polarity is not marked on the decoder wires.



The red wire to the brown and the black wire to the ground?
What about the second speaker?
Thanks.
Offline bph  
#17 Posted : 07 February 2021 13:28:21(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

Hi, connect only one speaker to the brown wires. polarity is not marked on the decoder wires.



The red wire to the brown and the black wire to the ground?
What about the second speaker?
Thanks.


Hi, don't know if I understand you correctly, but never connect the speaker wires to the chassis ground. (if the brown speaker wires accidentally touch the chassis ground, you might destroy the decoder sound module.)

In short, the red and black speaker wires go to the two brown speaker wires on the decoder.

the reason for two speakers is to provide an option to several different locomotive models, just pick the biggest one if it fits.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline gbrendem  
#18 Posted : 08 February 2021 21:08:27(UTC)
gbrendem

Norway   
Joined: 05/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Øyer
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gbrendem Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

Hi, connect only one speaker to the brown wires. polarity is not marked on the decoder wires.



The red wire to the brown and the black wire to the ground?
What about the second speaker?
Thanks.


Hi, don't know if I understand you correctly, but never connect the speaker wires to the chassis ground. (if the brown speaker wires accidentally touch the chassis ground, you might destroy the decoder sound module.)

In short, the red and black speaker wires go to the two brown speaker wires on the decoder.

the reason for two speakers is to provide an option to several different locomotive models, just pick the biggest one if it fits.


I understand you, thanks for your help.

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