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Offline mb300e4m  
#1 Posted : 12 December 2016 01:50:46(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 415
Location: Florida
I recently acquired a 37184 loco and am having a few problems with the sound decoder. Or maybe it is operator error. Here is a summary.

Marklin 37184 S 3/6, BR 18.4
Address 18
Decoder 701.22B
Sound Module 601866 08/97 Ver 1.0 BS.

MS2 would not find the loco.
Added the loco address manually.
Acceleration and deceleration are fine.

Functions were selected as follows.
F0: Lights, work and will change with direction change, and will turn on and off as required.
F1: Smoke, works and will turn on and off as required.
F2: Whistle, does not work.
F3: Bell, does not work.
F4: Accel./Decel. will not deactivate.

The manual says the loco has whistle and bell function. I have not checked the volume adjust on the sound board and will check this tomorrow.

Does anyone have any suggestion how to fix F2, 3 and 4? Please keep in mind that I am new to Digital, it is still a BIG mystery.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 12 December 2016 08:10:29(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,258
Location: DE-NW
Check the settings of the pots on decoder and sound module (three pots).
Measure the impedance of the speaker if you have an Ohm meter. Several users here have reported failed speakers for their Märklin BR 18.4s.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline ktsolias  
#3 Posted : 12 December 2016 14:23:30(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 540
Location: Athens
You are doing questions, but you don't read the answers!!!

In another post about starter set 29854 I send you some links. The links that may be useffull are

https://www.bogobit.de/sound/
https://www.bogobit.de/sound/29855-184/

There may be you will find something

But my opinion is that now all this staff (decoder sound modules etc) are only good for the waste bin....

There are no spare parts (or there are in e-bay in rediculus high prices). and defintlly if your are new to Digital or not an electronic engineer you can't do nothing...

Costas
Offline mb300e4m  
#4 Posted : 12 December 2016 18:41:37(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 415
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
You are doing questions, but you don't read the answers!!!

In another post about starter set 29854 I send you some links. The links that may be useffull are

https://www.bogobit.de/sound/
https://www.bogobit.de/sound/29855-184/

Costas


Of course I read the answers. I have both the pages for the links you sent to me OPEN 24x7 as reference!!! It is part of my effort to learn about digital model trains.

I omitted to mention that I have been into analogue model trains since 1947 and digital model trains for only a few months. I am also an assistant lecturer at a local Technical College where we teach young people electronics and automation. But that is a whole other story and this is not the place to tell it.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline mb300e4m  
#5 Posted : 12 December 2016 19:19:05(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 415
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Check the settings of the pots on decoder and sound module (three pots).
Measure the impedance of the speaker if you have an Ohm meter. Several users here have reported failed speakers for their Märklin BR 18.4s.


Hi again Tom,

With the tender body removed completely, I was able to check the speaker. It showed ZERO ohms...dead in the water as it were.

PC120725.JPG

Now the next challenge is to find a suitable replacement. Do you know the specs on this speaker? On the bogobit site it says 8 ohm and 0.1 watt, I assume this one would be the same, the specs sound standard for this purpose.

Many thanks.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
Offline Webmaster  
#6 Posted : 12 December 2016 20:19:34(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,124
It's indeed usually the speaker that drops dead in these locos...
We've had a topic about speaker replacements (cheap from China), but I can't remember the name of it right now...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Webmaster
Offline mb300e4m  
#7 Posted : 12 December 2016 23:04:59(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 415
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
It's indeed usually the speaker that drops dead in these locos...
We've had a topic about speaker replacements (cheap from China), but I can't remember the name of it right now...


Thanks Juhan,

I found a supplier in the USA and am browsing the speaker pages. to see what he has available. I am not recommending him, it just happens to be the first web page I came across and seemed to be a good place to start. The 37184 (601866 sound board) speaker is 20 mm diameter and I assume until I know better it is an 8 ohm variety. It should be easy to change out once I find a suitable replacement.

http://www.modeltrainstu...1&show=30&page=1
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
Offline mb300e4m  
#8 Posted : 12 December 2016 23:30:00(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 415
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: mb300e4m Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
It's indeed usually the speaker that drops dead in these locos...
We've had a topic about speaker replacements (cheap from China), but I can't remember the name of it right now...


Thanks Juhan,

I found a supplier in the USA and am browsing the speaker pages. to see what he has available. I am not recommending him, it just happens to be the first web page I came across and seemed to be a good place to start. The 37184 (601866 sound board) speaker is 20 mm diameter and I assume until I know better it is an 8 ohm variety. It should be easy to change out once I find a suitable replacement.

http://www.modeltrainstu...1&show=30&page=1


Here is one at $11.95 USD. Does anyone have any opinions? I understand that WOW also make decoders. TCS #1554 20mm Round 8 Ohm DCC Decoder WOW Speaker

#1554 8-Ohm 20mm (.79 inches) round x 3.4mm (.134 inches) high DCC decoder speaker from Train Control Systems (TCS).

Specifications:
Dimensions: 20mm (1.1in) round x 3.4mm (.134in) high
Power Rating: .5W (Typical) .8W (Peak)
Resonant Frequency: 550 Hz ± 20%, at 1.0 V
Effective Frequency Band: 550 Hz. to 20,000 Hz
DC Impedance: 8 Ohm ± 15%, at 1.0 V 1,000 Hz
Operating Temperature: -20ºC to +60ºC
Sound Pressure Level: 90 ± 3.0 dB(A), at: 800, 1,000, 1,200, 1,500 (Hz )

TCS #1554 20mm Round 8 Ohm DCC Decoder WOW Speaker

Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
Offline Minok  
#9 Posted : 13 December 2016 02:05:28(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
If the speaker was really shot (0 ohms), then I'd also want to check the signal coming out of the sound module. The output stage (amp) of the sound module, if it had been short circuited by a 0-ohm load, and IF it doesn't have an protective circuitry, might have burned out, so that replacing the speaker may not solve the problem (if the audio output amp stage is also burned out).

Whatever the ohm output is expected, hook up a small speaker to the outputs and just see if it works then... before you go to the trouble of finding a suitable small speaker that will fit inside the loco.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Minok
Offline mb300e4m  
#10 Posted : 13 December 2016 02:54:38(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 415
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
If the speaker was really shot (0 ohms), then I'd also want to check the signal coming out of the sound module. The output stage (amp) of the sound module, if it had been short circuited by a 0-ohm load, and IF it doesn't have an protective circuitry, might have burned out, so that replacing the speaker may not solve the problem (if the audio output amp stage is also burned out).

Whatever the ohm output is expected, hook up a small speaker to the outputs and just see if it works then... before you go to the trouble of finding a suitable small speaker that will fit inside the loco.


Thanks Minok,

The speaker was open circuit, as in infinity. But you have a good suggestion to hook up a small speaker for test purposes. I have a few around here in my parts cabinet. Not small enough to install in the tender, but small enough for test purposes.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
Offline mb300e4m  
#11 Posted : 13 December 2016 18:03:06(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 415
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: mb300e4m Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
If the speaker was really shot (0 ohms), then I'd also want to check the signal coming out of the sound module. The output stage (amp) of the sound module, if it had been short circuited by a 0-ohm load, and IF it doesn't have an protective circuitry, might have burned out, so that replacing the speaker may not solve the problem (if the audio output amp stage is also burned out).

Whatever the ohm output is expected, hook up a small speaker to the outputs and just see if it works then... before you go to the trouble of finding a suitable small speaker that will fit inside the loco.


Thanks Minok,

The speaker was open circuit, as in infinity. But you have a good suggestion to hook up a small speaker for test purposes. I have a few around here in my parts cabinet. Not small enough to install in the tender, but small enough for test purposes.


I took the tender body off and temporarily hooked up a 2 inch speaker. It worked proving that the original speaker was indeed open circuit.

I ordered two new 20mm, 8ohm WOW speakers, the cost was only $9.99 each. They looked like a bargain to me. BigGrin Now I have to wait for them to arrive in the post.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
H0MinokShamu
Offline mb300e4m  
#12 Posted : 22 December 2016 01:00:04(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 415
Location: Florida
New speakers arrived in the post recently, I bought a pair of them from "ModelTrainStuff.com" here in the USA. It did not take long to get the old one out and the new one installed. It was a perfect fit.

Here is a picture of the new one installed, it was easy to do with the help of my Ungar solder station which I have been using for the past 40 years, and some.
1-PC190731.JPG
Here is a picture of the loco showing off her new speaker on the test loop.
1-PC200739.JPG
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by mb300e4m
Offline mb300e4m  
#13 Posted : 22 December 2016 18:37:17(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 415
Location: Florida
I wish this loco had full sound with chuff etc. It only has whistle and bell, plus lights and smoke. Sad Any suggestions, anyone.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
Offline ktsolias  
#14 Posted : 22 December 2016 19:01:05(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 540
Location: Athens
The only solution to this problem is to through away all this stuff and replace it with a mSD3 decoder like 60975 or 60985.
The motor is already 60941 so if you want better motor control and more sounds (till 32 functions with CS3) this is the only way

Costas
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 22 December 2016 19:16:55(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,258
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
The only solution to this problem is to through away all this stuff and replace it with a mSD3 decoder like 60975 or 60985.
You can also get sound decoders from ESU, Zimo, D&H, and other brands.
msd/3 is not the only solution, just one possible solution.

Peter,
I wouldn't take that hassle for such a loco. The noise from motor/gear is usually audible through the chuff-chuff sound from the decoder.
So maybe leave the loco as it is and buy a new loco with worm-drive and factory-installed sound.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#16 Posted : 22 December 2016 19:19:36(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,770
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
New sound decoders cost quite a bit and the fitting of the new decoder will not be an easy plug-in. I would prefer to accept that this loco has limited functions and put that money instead towards a new loco with all the bells and whistles.

The newer Br18.5, if you can find one, is a new tooling with full sound and mfx, but there are also cheaper options.

However you might find the challenge of setting up a new decoder a worthwhile pursuit in itself, in which case it will be money well spent for you.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline MacHolgi  
#17 Posted : 01 January 2017 23:18:43(UTC)
MacHolgi

Germany   
Joined: 01/01/2017(UTC)
Posts: 1
Location: Ludwigsburg
Originally Posted by: mb300e4m Go to Quoted Post
I recently acquired a 37184 loco and am having a few problems with the sound decoder. Or maybe it is operator error. Here is a summary.

(...)

Functions were selected as follows.
F0: Lights, work and will change with direction change, and will turn on and off as required.
F1: Smoke, works and will turn on and off as required.
F2: Whistle, does not work.
F3: Bell, does not work.
F4: Accel./Decel. will not deactivate.



First of all: Happy New Year!

Hi Peter,

I have the same model with exactly the same problems you had: Sound is not working and F4 Accel./Decel. will not deactivate as well. But F0 is working.
As you now changed the speaker and sound is working again, I'm wondering about F4 function: was this problem related to the broken speaker as well (can't really beleave that) and is now working? Or is this problem still existing?

Regards, Holger
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by MacHolgi
Offline mb300e4m  
#18 Posted : 01 January 2017 23:33:53(UTC)
mb300e4m


Joined: 07/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 415
Location: Florida
Originally Posted by: MacHolgi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mb300e4m Go to Quoted Post
I recently acquired a 37184 loco and am having a few problems with the sound decoder. Or maybe it is operator error. Here is a summary.

(...)

Functions were selected as follows.
F0: Lights, work and will change with direction change, and will turn on and off as required.
F1: Smoke, works and will turn on and off as required.
F2: Whistle, does not work.
F3: Bell, does not work.
F4: Accel./Decel. will not deactivate.



First of all: Happy New Year!

Hi Peter,

I have the same model with exactly the same problems you had: Sound is not working and F4 Accel./Decel. will not deactivate as well. But F0 is working.
As you now changed the speaker and sound is working again, I'm wondering about F4 function: was this problem related to the broken speaker as well (can't really beleave that) and is now working? Or is this problem still existing?

Regards, Holger


Happy New Year to you Holgar and I hope Santa was good to you.

The new speaker fixed all of the sound issues, and I will dig her out this week and check the accel/decel again for you and report back. I think when I replaced the speaker I was so excited about having the sound working again I forgot to check it.

Best regards from sunny Florida, 80F, 26.6C here today and no snow either. It is a great climate for garden railways.

Peter B.
Peter B.
In Sunny Florida most of the time.
Marklin, Trix Express, Trix Twin, Fleischmann, Liliput, Hornby Dublo, and Others, 2 & 3 Rail, AC, DC and Digital, Course Scale Wheels & Fine, 1935 to 1960s usually.
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