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Installing MSD3 Sound Decoder in SBB Ae 8/14 (Märklin 37593)
 Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,294 Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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Hello everybody My next project is to install a Marklin MSD3 Sound Decoder into a locomotive SBB Ae 8/14 (Märklin 37593). This locomotive has a double body, and each body has its own drive motor. It is currently operated by a decoder which obviously drives both of the motors simultaneously. I would like to receive your comments on whether the Marklin MSD3 Sound Decoder (60987) can drive two motors simultaneously. What has been your experience with decoder upgrades of similar locomotives ? (Santa Fe models, etc) Pictures of the loco attached. Regards John  
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 1 user liked this useful post by Johnvr
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 Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Hi,
this is completely speculative, I don't have experience myself.
I guess you need two decoders which you will then configure to be double unit/double traction. However I guess only one of them need to be mSD3 and the other could be mLD3.
-Eino
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 Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,261 Location: Hobart, Australia
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Hello John,  My Swiss Ae 8/14 was originally Märklin 33591. I upgraded both motors with 5-pole kits and installed a single ESU Lokpilot v4.0 decoder controlling both motors. As I recall, a search of our group's posts archive at the time seemed to find that most people who had converted with "only" one decoder had no issues. The loco is fantastic, with great pulling power and low speed crawl. I am sure you will enjoy yours, Regards, Philip     
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2 users liked this useful post by PJMärklin
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 Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France
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Hello John, I did the same as PJMarklin, i.e. convert the loco with an ESU Loksound V4 (and later change it by a V5). Mine is 37591, bought in 1997, with 5-pole motors. One decoder is enough to drive both motors. Normally, recent mSD3 decoders should do same job. If you go for an ESU decoder, sound projects (V4 and V5) for Ae8/14 are available at ESU. 3 pics:    Cheers Fabrice
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1 user liked this useful post by French_Fabrice
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 Joined: 11/07/2018(UTC) Posts: 217 Location: Aruba (general), Oranjestad
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John
I have a modified Santa Fe (ABA) that has one MLD decoder driving 2 5 pole motors, no problem, drives beautiful on low and high speeds.
Regards
Jean-Pierre
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1 user liked this useful post by cintrans
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Won’t there be problems with motor feedback if there’s two motors connected to one decoder?
-Eino
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 Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,890 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Some delta and or digital ones owners had issues when new in the 90's.
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 Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC) Posts: 623 Location: Athens
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Originally Posted by: einotuominen  Won’t there be problems with motor feedback if there’s two motors connected to one decoder?
-Eino Mine conversion is done with one mSd3 60987 decoder. I used the Märklin sound project from the 37595. In this loco Märklin uses one decoder for the two motors, like in many other locomotives. There is a very slight sleep of the one truck in special areas of the track where a rather sharp uphill starts. (more resistance - feedback - decoder gives more power - the other truck sleeps) But you have to look very closely to notice this. Once I try to use two decoders. Many great problems. Impossible to synchronize the two motors. I also have change the lights with the new Märklin LED plate with WW and RED LEDs Ε285937. This light conversion is giving another look to the loco. Is highly recommended. At the same time cabin lighting can be added Regards Costas
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4 users liked this useful post by ktsolias
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Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,801 Location: Crozet, Virginia
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Marklin has used one decoder to control multiple motors for many years, and quite successfully.
I have at least a dozen locos and trains with multiple motors and none of them have more than one decoder.
mSD/3 decoders are capable and inexpensive and ESU V4 and up are superior in function and sound. Neither is a bad choice. |
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time. |
2 users liked this useful post by dickinsonj
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Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece
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I have done this twice with F7 locomotives,Alaska item 3462 and ATSF 3662.They are converted with 60941 motors and 60976 msd3 decoders.Both running perfect carrying a lot of wagons with no problem at all.
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2 users liked this useful post by foumaro
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Joined: 08/12/2021(UTC) Posts: 141 Location: California, Sonoma County
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Can anyone show me, or describe to me how the swiss rear right lighting is made to work. How do you connect this rear right light bulb to the decoder wires in this lok Ae 8/14. Thanks so much.
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Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,042 Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
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I opted to use the "Lussi" board & I am very glad I did. Very easy to fit & I used ESU loksound V3.0 M4 decoders back in the day . I converted two of mine namely 37591 & 37593. My 39590 in machinery green I left as is. http://luessi.ch/eshop/oc/lussi...cos.html?product_id=2480The "Lussi boards" made for a nice neat job & the loco's running was vastly improved from the original Marklin decoder. |
D.A.Banks |
1 user liked this useful post by Dave Banks
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Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC) Posts: 2,261 Location: Hobart, Australia
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Originally Posted by: Bill L Can anyone show me, or describe to me how the swiss rear right lighting is made to work. How do you connect this rear right light bulb to the decoder wires in this lok Ae 8/14. Thanks so much. Hello Billl, Section 12.6 in the Lokpilot manual below explains how to do this. I would expect you can extend the same principle to a Märklin decoder. Note the colour code for the wires is ESU and different to Märklin wire colour code but the wiring diagram can still be adapted to Märklin. https://www.esu.eu/en/do...f72b31b9eda2534dd1f43f9dRegards PJ
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2 users liked this useful post by PJMärklin
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Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC) Posts: 623 Location: Athens
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Originally Posted by: Bill L Can anyone show me, or describe to me how the swiss rear right lighting is made to work. How do you connect this rear right light bulb to the decoder wires in this lok Ae 8/14. Thanks so much. Hi this is a plan of a 4/4 the apply for the 8/14  SwissLights.docx (475kb) downloaded 42 time(s).
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4 users liked this useful post by ktsolias
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Joined: 08/12/2021(UTC) Posts: 141 Location: California, Sonoma County
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Thank you both: PJMarklin and ktsolias,
Bill L.
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Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 1,294 Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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Hello everyone With the positive comments received to my earlier question about whether a single decoder would work or not, I decided to go ahead and do the upgrade. I am happy to feedback that it all works absolutely fine ! I used a Marklin MSD3 Sound Decoder 60987 and the motors run in synchronized fashion. Swiss lighting achieved by using F1 and F2 to switch the left side light in front and back respectively, and F0 to switch the centre and right side light. Remember to insert resistors and lower the power output from the lighting function outputs. I also programmed slow dimming of the lighting when changing direction of travel to make it look more realistic. Connecting all of the wiring :  Programming the sounds from the Marklin database (although I customised it from another project because there is no Ae8-14 project) :  Running the loco on the track : Video of Ae8-14 running on the layoutNow, I do have a further question : Why did Marklin install small capacitors in the original loco engines when the loco already a digital loco ? I have always thought that the capacitors should be cut out of high efficiency motors, certainly capacitors between ground and motor ? Should I cut these capacitors out from the engines ?  Regards John
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1 user liked this useful post by Johnvr
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Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC) Posts: 623 Location: Athens
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Originally Posted by: Johnvr Hello everyone With the positive comments received to my earlier question about whether a single decoder would work or not, I decided to go ahead and do the upgrade. I am happy to feedback that it all works absolutely fine ! I used a Marklin MSD3 Sound Decoder 60987 and the motors run in synchronized fashion. Swiss lighting achieved by using F1 and F2 to switch the left side light in front and back respectively, and F0 to switch the centre and right side light. Remember to insert resistors and lower the power output from the lighting function outputs. I also programmed slow dimming of the lighting when changing direction of travel to make it look more realistic. Connecting all of the wiring : Programming the sounds from the Marklin database (although I customised it from another project because there is no Ae8-14 project) : Running the loco on the track : Video of Ae8-14 running on the layoutNow, I do have a further question : Why did Marklin install small capacitors in the original loco engines when the loco already a digital loco ? I have always thought that the capacitors should be cut out of high efficiency motors, certainly capacitors between ground and motor ? Should I cut these capacitors out from the engines ? Regards John Hi Nice conversion Leave only the one capacitor between the two poles of the motor. Cut all the others Costas
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2 users liked this useful post by ktsolias
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Installing MSD3 Sound Decoder in SBB Ae 8/14 (Märklin 37593)
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