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Offline David Dewar  
#1 Posted : 20 March 2010 21:46:34(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
I have a length of track with a 7555 reed contact in place wired to an s88. One wire to ground on the s88 and the other to No.1. The s88 in connected to my CS2.
My question is now what do I do to obtain info on the CS2 when a loco or coach with a magnet passes over the reed contact.
I do not have my layout on the layout section of the CS2.
Info on the s88 in use with a CS2 appears to be pretty sparse.
Many thanks for any help.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 20 March 2010 23:30:23(UTC)
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clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Refer Layout Section (From CS2 main screen)

- Enter Edit/Setup Mode UserPostedImage
- Select either of the 2 ( UserPostedImage or UserPostedImage) at the bottom right selection menu
- Place on layout grid as you would a piece of track ..
- A pop-up window will allow you to Enter/Confirm S88 module/address
- Save address UserPostedImage
- (optionally) rotate Icon as you would a normal track UserPostedImage
- Exit Edit/Setup Mode (saving changes) UserPostedImage

The icon will show yellow UserPostedImage when occupied (magnet adjacent to reed switch) and white UserPostedImage when unoccupied.
(This test can also be done before you fully exit Edit/Setup mode)

Note: If the sensor is associated with a route then it is possible to manually trigger this with a stylus. In which case the icon will show yellow when selected (that may not have been causes by an actual s88 contact). The icon will return to White either by tapping again with stylus or the actual sensor being triggered AND un-triggered.
Peter
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Offline David Dewar  
#3 Posted : 21 March 2010 00:27:34(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Thanks Peter. I think I did try the above or similar although I am not sure about a pop up window. Also there was a box that indicated if the s88 was active by having a tick or left blank. I did not know which it should be. I am not at the layout at present but will try again tomorrow. I presume I just select 1 as the address. Although I do not have my track on the layout section I presume I would need to be in that screen for the track occupation to be seen.
I know I seem a bit dim on this but I cant find anywhere in the manuals with a diagram re wiring or set up.
Many thanks and I will have another go tomorrow.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 21 March 2010 01:48:28(UTC)
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clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
David Dewar wrote:
.... Also there was a box that indicated if the s88 was active by having a tick or left blank. I did not know which it should be....

Without further specifics, this sounds like the option in the Memory section not the Layout section. Your original question made no reference to memory/routes

When you define a route you can, optionally, associate it to be triggered from an s88 contact as well as the push button. In doing so you have the ability for the route to trigger when the sensor is either first triggered ("S88 on/off" box checked) OR when it is untriggered ("S88 on/off" box unchecked) e.g. when train LEAVES a section).

Even when an s88 contact is "configured" the route must be enabled for use with external sensors by selecting UserPostedImage (rather than UserPostedImage)

Quote:

I presume I just select 1 as the address. Although I do not have my track on the layout section I presume I would need to be in that screen for the track occupation to be seen.

This is correct (presuming the s88 in question is the 1st one connected to the CS2 - if it was the 2nd then sensor 1 would equate to address 17)
This is needed even if they are to be simply a placeholder and not part of an overall layout diagram.

If you were looking at the memory/route side of things , the memory/route icon will show UserPostedImage if the route "has been triggered" (and is still intact) but will not show if the sensor itself is still active.
Peter
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Offline David Dewar  
#5 Posted : 21 March 2010 21:12:27(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Hi Peter. Many thanks for the above and apologies for the confusion re the memory section.

I am in the Layout in the CS2 and have the s88 icon on the screen which will change to yellow when using the stylus. Passing a coach over the reed with a magnet does not have any effect. I have increased the number of magnets to ensure they are close to the reed. The cable is joined to the s88 at the 9 -16 side of the unit which I presume is correct. the wires from the reed are connected to the s88 ground and NO.1 which is the address set at the CS2. I presume it does not matter which wire from the reed is ground.
I dont know what other test I can do to see where I am going wrong. I could I suppose try another reed contact in case the one I am using has a fault or I do have a Marklin contact set but this looks even more complicated with other sections or track involved.
As I said my layout is not on the layout section of the CS2 and I only have the s88 icon showing which again I presume is OK.
All I am looking for is loco recognition at parts of the layout I cant see using the s88.
Again any help is appreciated.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline David Dewar  
#6 Posted : 22 March 2010 00:17:48(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Peter/ adding to the above I tried a circuit track. The s88 instructions show this with only one wire connected to the s88. Does not of course say where the wire is connected on the circuit track but i tried all three spades but again nothing. To be honest I dont really see how this could work anyway. How Marklin expect me to use this decoder is beyond me.

david
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline clapcott  
#7 Posted : 22 March 2010 10:42:10(UTC)
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clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Dave,

Quick sanity check - ignore the reed switch and the magnets and remove any wiring to sensor #1.

- The flat cable from the s88 to the CS2 does indeed connect on the #9 side. (arrow points TOWARDS controller)
- the cable should come out the bottom of the plug (it is possible to force it in the wrong way)
- likewise for the CS2 end, the cable should come out of the plug and head towards the rear of controller.
- also check you have not offset the plug on the pin block left or right - all six pins should line up

Now connect a jumper wire directly from the s88 Ground (upside down T) to sensor #1.
Observe Layout icon that you have set up for #1

Report observations
Peter
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Offline supermoee  
#8 Posted : 22 March 2010 10:42:44(UTC)
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supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
Hello,

you just have to do what is written in the manual.

You have to connect the ground of the CS2 to the ground of the first S88 module.

Connect the flat cable on the right side of the S88 module (following the manual)

One cable of the reed 7555 you have to connect to the ground of the S88 module. The other cable of the reed 7555 you connect to the Nr 1 entry of the S88 module.

The magnet under the loco should be in correct position, not too far from the reed 7555. With reeds it can be the matter of 1mm to have it switching.

rgds

Stephan
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Offline clapcott  
#9 Posted : 22 March 2010 10:51:34(UTC)
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clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
supermoee wrote:
Hello,
You have to connect the ground of the CS2 to the ground of the first S88 module.


This is ONLY required if you intend using the rail for return. e.g. a contact track.
It is not needed if wiring to the common (Upside down T) of the s88.
Peter
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Offline Philip  
#10 Posted : 22 March 2010 11:03:37(UTC)
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Philip


Joined: 20/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 267
Location: , Denmark
Hello everyone.

I have scanned a single drawing from Märklin Magazin Special Issue: Digital Special.
With instructions on how cord elapsed between the rails and S88 can be.

http://www.majhost.com/g...odeltog/Maerklin/s88.jpg

hope it can be used.
Philip.

Let's keep it simple.
MFDWPL
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Offline David Dewar  
#11 Posted : 22 March 2010 12:06:53(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Many thanks Peter and others. Will try all the above and get back to you.
Your help is much appreciated.

David.

PS. Philip. I have the instructions you have scanned. Looking ast the first with the circuit track they show a wire going to the track but not wehich of the three/four possible connections.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline supermoee  
#12 Posted : 22 March 2010 15:20:20(UTC)
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supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
clapcott wrote:


This is ONLY required if you intend using the rail for return. e.g. a contact track.
It is not needed if wiring to the common (Upside down T) of the s88.



Hello,

this is required to give a reference signal to the S88. It doesn't matter which detection you use.

If I do not connect this, the signalisation of the reed contacts 7555 is flashing like crazy. As soon as I connect ground, everything is working properly. How you explain this?

On the other hands there are S88 modules which do not need this. Märklin itself it suggesting to try both ways. It seems to be different generations of S88 around.

rgds

Stephan
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Offline David Dewar  
#13 Posted : 22 March 2010 18:26:56(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Peter. Followed your instructions and checked all connections which were OK.
On only connecting the jumper wire the icon will change from white to yellow when removing and inserting the ground. (may do it with the sensor wire but did not try this)
From this it would appear that the connections from the CS2 to the s88 are OK as is the s88 itself. This leaves the reed and connections from it to the s88. I may be able to find another reed which I can try or I have a circuit track which is spare. But how do I connect this to the s88. There is a ground already connected so that leaves three other possible connections. Also does a circuit track act on the icon on the layout screen.
Many thanks again and hopefully I will find where the problem lies.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Nilkram  
#14 Posted : 23 March 2010 00:07:39(UTC)
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Nilkram


Joined: 18/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Netherlands
David,

Try to switch a signal with your reed. Go to Keyboard and connect a signal. Signal must be connected to a K83. Go to Memory, choose A1 and dedicate A1 must turn the signal from green to red. The icon on the Memory must show 'a hand and a train'. Connect one wire of the reed to A1 and the other either to the T-bus or to one rail bar. As soon as a loco or a car under which a magnet is glued passes the reed the signal turns from green to red. Of course you can also take a point.
I hope this will ease your problem.
Jan
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Offline David Dewar  
#15 Posted : 23 March 2010 00:24:21(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Hi Jan. Thank you for suggestion. On removing the magnet (s) from the car I find that by touching the reed with a magnet the icon will briefly change to yellow. From this it would appear that the magnet was too far from the reed. (as has been mentioned) I only have the small Marklin magnets but put all six on top of each other but even that does not allow contact. Unless the magnet is touching or very very close there is no contact.
It could be the reed I am using may have a fault or I need bigger and stronger magnets.
I was only looking for a good method of track occupancy using the s88 but perhaps using a reed is not the best way to go.
I am most grateful for the assistance given and if anybody has a better suggestion (which will probably need a diagram lol) then please do let me know.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline clapcott  
#16 Posted : 23 March 2010 08:07:14(UTC)
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clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
supermoee wrote:
clapcott wrote:


This is ONLY required if you intend using the rail for return. e.g. a contact track.
It is not needed if wiring to the common (Upside down T) of the s88.



Hello,

this is required to give a reference signal to the S88. It doesn't matter which detection you use.

Stephan

I respectfully disagree - it does matter. Moving forward with the current controller technology I believe every attempt should be made to isolate the sensor network from the track power. As such I would encourage the wiring of the reed switch as shown in Philips link - bottom picture - where both wires connect to the s88 and no connection to the track.

Legacy support for the traditional Maerklin contact track is import for a lot of modelers and the only reason we cannot make a clean break. Insulated sensors are available to reproduce this functionality - but not from Maerklin unfortunately.

UserPostedImage


Peter
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Offline clapcott  
#17 Posted : 23 March 2010 08:29:53(UTC)
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clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
David,

Reed relays are generally extremely reliable, however they can get fail/become unreliable if the glass breaks or the contacts are subject to arcing (causing carbon buildup).

Rather than get another Marklin one, I would point you at something like http://uk.farnell.com/meder/ksk-1a66-1020/reed-switch-10w/dp/1079468

Peter
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Offline David Dewar  
#18 Posted : 23 March 2010 11:41:39(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Hi Peter. Thanks for info re Farnell. I shall order from them. Is the wiring the same with their reed to the s88. I would presume it is.
This has proved interesting for me and the outcome is probably a reed which is not working as it should if I have to almost touch it with a magnet to meke contact. Other than reeds from Farnell I shall get some larger magnets.
With grateful thanks to Peter and all for your time and information.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Webmaster  
#19 Posted : 23 March 2010 20:24:18(UTC)
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Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Once again, if you need to shorten the leads - make sure you use a wire-cutter with one straight edge, not the cheaper V-edge shaped ones... Just thought it was worth reminding about (again...).

If you put the glass tube outside the rail, you can even get directional indication using 2 tubes if you standardise your magnet setup to one side of the locos... As long as you run your locos forward only of course...

I have played with the idea to only equip eg freight loks with magnets, so you can indicate it's a freight train that is approaching the main station - and should pass on a free track through the station without stopping and such...

Regarding magnets, eg Farnell also have small alnico magnets that would less visible when mounted than a ferrite version with the same oomph... Bigger isn't always better... It's the oomph that counts... Smile
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline David Dewar  
#20 Posted : 23 March 2010 21:50:48(UTC)
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David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,343
Location: Scotland
Hi Juhan. Thanks for info on more oompf and I will order some of the magnets as well as the reeds. Farnell site is a bit complicted if you dont know the page you are looking for but their stuff sure is cheaper than Marklin.
I presume the reeds do not have a plastic casing and it is interesting to note that you say they can be laid outside the track in which case magnets would I expect have to be well to the side of the loco/coach etc. Without a bit of plastic and screw would I just use glue to attach the reed to C track.

David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Webmaster  
#21 Posted : 23 March 2010 22:33:21(UTC)
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Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
My thoughts are to differentiate train types with the help of magnets & reeds... For normal operations, I think I will rely on the directional slider activated tracks and rail contact sections for occupancy...

At least that's what I have in mind for the moment - it may change, since I have no layout yet... BigGrin


Glue + some paint should make them inconspiciuos enough also on the outside of rails...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline Harvey  
#22 Posted : 24 March 2010 01:03:41(UTC)
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Harvey

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Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 594
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
This is a great thread. I have been looking for a source to order reed switches and learn more about wiring diagrams. Peter has helped me (see wiring topic).

So, thanks.

The wiring diagrams are very helpful. I am not sure if feasible to create a single location which provides wiring diagrams for various devices.

Again, great information.
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Offline clapcott  
#23 Posted : 24 March 2010 08:17:08(UTC)
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clapcott

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Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
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Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Webmaster wrote:

Glue + some paint should make them inconspicuous enough also on the outside of rails...

Or maybe some camouflage for the real thing
UserPostedImage

or (link) Indusi

Peter
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Offline Harvey  
#24 Posted : 23 May 2010 05:48:47(UTC)
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Harvey

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Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 594
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Follow up question(s) to Peter's diagram.

I recently purchased an S88 (but need to obtain the CS2). I purchased reeds (from Farnell) and built, installed and tested them (with old blue transformer and light bulb and old 7245 Universal switch. (Received lots of advice and success. BigGrin So I have not yet used the S88. I read the instructions of the S88 and they are far from clear. Sounds as if you only use connections 1-8 and not 9-16. Is this correct. The instructions mention some infrequent event that requires use of 9-16. The instructions do not really explain the upside down T ( a ground).

What are others opinion regarding Peter's suggestion (to use S88 as ground versus track)? What are pros/cons of each approach.

Thanks
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Offline Webmaster  
#25 Posted : 23 May 2010 22:51:18(UTC)
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Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Of course you can use all inputs...

Each row of inputs (1-8, 9-16) are represented by a byte sent back to the controller (or computer software if running that way) - so what the controller/software has to do is to decode the 2 bytes sent back from the s88 where each "bit in the byte" (a byte is 8 bits) indicates on or off.

2 bytes = 2x8 on/off indications since a bit can be either 0 or 1.

The indication has to have a reference to a voltage, and usually this is to ground (brown cable, rail etc) but the reference can also be the "red wire".
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#26 Posted : 24 May 2010 04:23:07(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

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Location: New Zealand
In addition to what Juhan states, the other point to make re the Farnell type reed switches is to make sure you get it right first time when bending the leads in any way. If you try to re bend one that has already been bent, it will most likely break the reed glass.

That's my experience with them.
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Offline Harvey  
#27 Posted : 27 May 2010 06:16:45(UTC)
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Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 594
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
As always, thanks for clarifying that all inputs can be used. Regarding the reeds, yes they are fragile but inexpensive. I purchased 20 and broke 2. For a first time around I consider that fairly good and still inexpensive. I soldered connecting wires and tested. I think no problems with a prior warning (to use straight edge wire cutters - avoiding the v-shape and possible spark).

One question I still have is whether it is better to use the track as ground or the inverted T on the S-88.

Regards,

Harvey
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Offline GSRR  
#28 Posted : 27 May 2010 16:18:33(UTC)
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GSRR

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Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC)
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Location: USA
Harvey wrote:
As always, thanks for clarifying that all inputs can be used. Regarding the reeds, yes they are fragile but inexpensive. I purchased 20 and broke 2. For a first time around I consider that fairly good and still inexpensive. I soldered connecting wires and tested. I think no problems with a prior warning (to use straight edge wire cutters - avoiding the v-shape and possible spark).

One question I still have is whether it is better to use the track as ground or the inverted T on the S-88.

Regards,

Harvey



Harvey,

Personally I agree with Peter's comments in post 16. Think of separating the ground as added security. Look at your house; GFIC for the bathroom and kitchen, check. Surge protector for the 50 inch TV and computer, check. You did not mention which brand of S88 you have. I will be going with Veissmann because it can use a separate power source. The more you can isolate power consuming digital items, the better.

Just my opinion.


Regards,


Thomas


ETE UserPostedImage ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V
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Offline dntower85  
#29 Posted : 27 May 2010 17:41:52(UTC)
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dntower85

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Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Is anyone using any of the HS-88 that plug directly into the computer thus bypassing the CS freeing up data between the CS and the track?

LDT make a types of s-88 and Hs-88s,
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
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Offline GSRR  
#30 Posted : 27 May 2010 18:53:31(UTC)
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GSRR

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Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,339
Location: USA
dntower85 wrote:
Is anyone using any of the HS-88 that plug directly into the computer thus bypassing the CS freeing up data between the CS and the track?

LDT make a types of s-88 and Hs-88s,



Are you referring to the LDT HSI-88-USB-G? (125,00 euros)

http://www.ldt-infocente...m/english/hsi88usb_e.htm


looking at their table it only works currently with 3 software applications?


Interesting though.

ETE UserPostedImage ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V
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Offline Harvey  
#31 Posted : 28 May 2010 06:34:08(UTC)
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Harvey

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Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 594
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
GSRR wrote:
Harvey wrote:
As always, thanks for clarifying that all inputs can be used. Regarding the reeds, yes they are fragile but inexpensive. I purchased 20 and broke 2. For a first time around I consider that fairly good and still inexpensive. I soldered connecting wires and tested. I think no problems with a prior warning (to use straight edge wire cutters - avoiding the v-shape and possible spark).

One question I still have is whether it is better to use the track as ground or the inverted T on the S-88.

Regards,

Harvey



Harvey,

Personally I agree with Peter's comments in post 16. Think of separating the ground as added security. Look at your house; GFIC for the bathroom and kitchen, check. Surge protector for the 50 inch TV and computer, check. You did not mention which brand of S88 you have. I will be going with Veissmann because it can use a separate power source. The more you can isolate power consuming digital items, the better.

Just my opinion.


Regards,


Thomas


[Personally I agree with Peter's comments in post 16. Think of separating the ground as added security. Look at your house; GFIC for the bathroom and kitchen, check. Surge protector for the 50 inch TV and computer, check. You did not mention which brand of S88 you have. I will be going with Veissmann because it can use a separate power source. The more you can isolate power consuming digital items, the better.

Just my opinion.


Regards,


Thomas]

Thomas, I will be using Marklin's S88. I have not looked at this too much as waiting for my CS2 but I assume the S88 plugs into the CS, using the CS transformer for power. I do have a separate booster (and transformer) to run all switches. At some point I may isolate freight from passenger service, adding another booster.
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