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Offline Dreadnought  
#1 Posted : 22 September 2010 01:37:55(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 418
Location: Niagara, Ontario
This question, is out of idle curiosity.

I have noticed electric engines in Europe tend to have the after pantograph up, drawing power as they run. Sometimes a freight train, if pulling new cars in auto carriers it is the forward one. I understand that is to keep sparks from the pantograph rubbing on the catenary falling onto the cargo, (cars in my question).

Almost all other trains, particularly passenger, it seems to be the after pantograph. Is there a reason, ie quieter for the driver?
Offline sjlauritsen  
#2 Posted : 22 September 2010 09:00:17(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Dreadnought wrote:
Almost all other trains, particularly passenger, it seems to be the after pantograph. Is there a reason, ie quieter for the driver?


No, but in case of an accident (e.g. the pantograph breaks and falls of), it will not hit the other pantograph. The locomotive will still be able to drive using the other pantograph.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline kariosls37  
#3 Posted : 22 September 2010 09:56:29(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
The only reasons that a loco may have it's front panto up is:
A) the car/cargo could be damaged by sparks if the car/cargo is flammable, where the rear panto is down
B) if the loco is a multiple voltage type, in which case each panto is for one(or more eg. 3kV and 1.5Kv DC) voltage and only the panto for that voltage is up
C) if the loco is an older type and is accellerating from a standstill,both pantos will be up. The front panto is withdrawn as soon as the loco has built up speed. This has to do with the maximum current allowed per panto.

There are some interesting videos on youtube that show what happens when a panto goes into self destruct mode
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 22 September 2010 12:59:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
kariosls37 wrote:
C) if the loco is an older type and is accellerating from a standstill,both pantos will be up. The front panto is withdrawn as soon as the loco has built up speed.

This applies to locos running on DC, but not to all European locos.
It seems you're a fan of railways from the Netherlands - but you should indicate that in your responses.

German locos with old-style pantographs will always have both up - to get secure contact. But this was discussed before.

Similar topics:
https://www.marklin-user...aspx?g=posts&t=11860 (started by Dreadnought)
https://www.marklin-user...erms=raise,catenary,rear

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline mike c  
#5 Posted : 22 September 2010 21:45:51(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,898
Location: Montreal, QC
Some loks, like the first series of Re 4/4II (or the BLS Re 425) are equipped with only one pantograph. I wonder if these loks had to be turned around to run with a load of car carriers, tank cars or other cargo that needed to be hauled with the pantograph at the opposite end of the lok? Is that one of the reason that all of the Re 4/4II of the first series (11101-11155) were transferred to SBB Passenger when the fleet was divided?

Regards

Mike C
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 22 September 2010 22:50:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Mike,

I can't speak for SBB, but DB locos with only one suitable pantograph (e. g. some BR 189) run as they come, they are not turned around.
Sometimes they pull tank cars or car transporters while using the rear pantograph.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline perz  
#7 Posted : 22 September 2010 23:39:31(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Choice of front or rear pantograph could, at least in the old days, be a question of best aerodynamics. The turbulence caused by the loco front will, depending on the speed of the train and the shape of the loco front, cause an upward or downward force on the pantograph. This force can be significantly different at the front and the rear pantograph. If it is an upward force, you get excessive wear. If it is a downward force, you get bad contact.

I assume that those problems are solved on newer loks.
Offline Dreadnought  
#8 Posted : 23 September 2010 06:42:34(UTC)
Dreadnought

Canada   
Joined: 24/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 418
Location: Niagara, Ontario
Thank you everyone. Fasciating answers. This forum is a wonderful source of information.

Now that you mention it, I recall seeing a pantograph disintigrate on a UTube video. It took a good chunk of catenary when it went.

Now I have no excuse for not concentrating on work.
Offline kariosls37  
#9 Posted : 23 September 2010 11:16:37(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
H0 wrote:
kariosls37 wrote:
C) if the loco is an older type and is accellerating from a standstill,both pantos will be up. The front panto is withdrawn as soon as the loco has built up speed.

This applies to locos running on DC, but not to all European locos.
It seems you're a fan of railways from the Netherlands - but you should indicate that in your responses.

German locos with old-style pantographs will always have both up - to get secure contact. But this was discussed before.

Similar topics:
https://www.marklin-user...aspx?g=posts&t=11860 (started by Dreadnought)
https://www.marklin-user...erms=raise,catenary,rear



Your'e absolutely right. Thanks for pointing it out.
It only applies in DC countries(because of the larger currents involved). I should have mentioned it(I knew tooBlushing )

Cheers,
Kariosls
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