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Offline sleepvark  
#1 Posted : 02 August 2013 21:18:55(UTC)
sleepvark

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: St Joseph MO
Is there a way to retrofit some remotely controlled pantographs onto marklin eloks?
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 02 August 2013 21:22:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
None I know about.
You may or may not know that Märklin made some locos with remotely controlled pantographs - and ESU and Roco still make them.
So models with that feature installed ex works are available (Märklin models primarily on the second hand market).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline jlopez  
#3 Posted : 03 August 2013 05:22:30(UTC)
jlopez

United States   
Joined: 28/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 143
Location: San Francisco
I have two marklin models with them, the br 103, and the tee dining car. It is a nice function, but honestly it so delicate I never run them in the up position.
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Offline cookee_nz  
#4 Posted : 12 July 2020 02:11:01(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Just to resurrect this old topic, many years ago I wondered about the possibility of doing this using "Memory Wire" (Nitinol) and purchased a small pack for a 'someday' project.

In the meantime I obtained the Catenary Maintenance Railbus 39970 which has the Panto controlled by a Piezo motor and I love the effect but always the thought of using memory wire has remained in my head. Viessmann have also used it in their signals.

Quite by chance I came across this today and it's almost exactly what I had in mind. It's just too good not to share and I really hope it may inspire someone else also to give it a try.

The sparking effect is an added bonus but quite another topic.



Possibly the most tricky part of the method is the connection to the Panto itself. The Piezo technique requires a very thin nylon thread up to the wiper and prone to breakage.

The memory-wire method could operate directly on the bottom linkages of the panto, however it would require drilling a small slot into the Loco roof - so you would have to be pretty keen. But on an older 'junker' as proof of concept, that would not be an issue. You'd also have to check the current requirements of the wire to match your Decoder.

I have plenty of suitable Loco's I'd have no hesitation doing it on. Obviously, the longer the body, the more motion you can achieve, or, for a shorter body you might be able to wrap around a series of small pulleys. Imagine being able to do it on an E63 - awesome!!

There are no bounds to people's creativity and ingenuity so I hope this is interesting to a few - and top credit to the guy who made the one in the video, so simple.

Cookee
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 12 July 2020 06:59:49(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
One day I may go down this route and try it out, at least with this video it gives you some ideas where to start, I'm not keen on the ESU and other manufacturers how they've constructed it, mainly any unintentionally manual handling the whole concept could be ruined.
I've made 1 loco for my friend Luiz in Hong Kong with a sparking pantograph and it was very fiddly and one had to make sure the tiny led didn't touch the overhead wire, also connecting the led on the pantograph that the 2 wires coming from the led had to be insulated., all in all I was satisfied with the outcome, I've got on my desktop a company which deals with piezo motors but this is how far it has gone., it would be great if you could operate your loco via WIFI, add a power generator and operate the pantograph remotely., don't ask me how it would work or if it would work at all.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 14 July 2020 22:39:27(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Originally Posted by: sleepvark Go to Quoted Post
Is there a way to retrofit some remotely controlled pantographs onto marklin eloks?

I have never done it myself but using tiny servo motors driven by decoders will do the job easily.
Märklin sells a few models with servo motors (BR 103 with disappearing drivers, Catenary Maintenance railcar, etc) and I have the 39008 with tender coal going up and down.
Pity Märklin does not sell those decoders but ESU (Loksound5) claims they can drive servos on their loco decoder.

The other solution with Nitinol presented by Cookee is very interesting but I have reservations about using a ball bearing for this
Thanks anyway
Jean
PS: I have looked further and found a thread in Stummiforum proposing solutions :https://stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=156438
- with ESU's decoder extension 51970 for 2 servos in conjunction with decoders like the Loksound5
- with some Zimo or some TAMS decoders
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline cookee_nz  
#7 Posted : 15 July 2020 05:23:40(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,949
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi
Originally Posted by: sleepvark Go to Quoted Post
Is there a way to retrofit some remotely controlled pantographs onto marklin eloks?

I have never done it myself but using tiny servo motors driven by decoders will do the job easily.
Märklin sells a few models with servo motors (BR 103 with disappearing drivers, Catenary Maintenance railcar, etc) and I have the 39008 with tender coal going up and down.
Pity Märklin does not sell those decoders but ESU (Loksound5) claims they can drive servos on their loco decoder.

The other solution with Nitinol presented by Cookee is very interesting but I have reservations about using a ball bearing for this
Thanks anyway
Jean
PS: I have looked further and found a thread in Stummiforum proposing solutions :https://stummiforum.de/viewtopic.php?t=156438
- with ESU's decoder extension 51970 for 2 servos in conjunction with decoders like the Loksound5
- with some Zimo or some TAMS decoders



The big difference is that any 'motor' solution is by it's nature, overly complex. Compared to a strip of wire that simply contracts and expands.

The ball-bearing is only needed as a fulcrum to enable the length of wire for the required leverage. If shorter wire could give the same motion then of course it could be simpler again.

But each to their own. I think it's an awesome idea, but of course it's not until I actually get around to trying it that I might come upon any pitfalls. BigGrin
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline ktsolias  
#8 Posted : 15 July 2020 10:24:26(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 609
Location: Athens
Hi

Märklin put in 39567 Insider 2018 crocodile Ce 6/8ii a remote controlled pantograph.

IMG_44478_resize.JPG

There is a servo motor controlled via SUSI from the decoder.

The motor is connected with the pantograph with a very thin plastic string.

Very nice, very complicated and too sensitive in handling.

Here is the ESU solution in a BR 151

IMG_43602_resize.JPG

Is a sevro motor again driving the pantaograph in a more complicated way than Märklin

Works very nice

May be a solution with a sevro motor where space is available is good way to go...

I shall think about to try it

Regards

Costas
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Offline mario54i  
#9 Posted : 15 July 2020 14:32:50(UTC)
mario54i

Italy   
Joined: 28/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 283
Location: Torino,
ESU introduced a linear servo motor for pantos at last Nurnberg fair

I wonder how it can work with a run length of 4.5 mm only, I would say a leverage is needed.

BTW, is it correct a spark when panto approaches overhead wire ? A spark means that a circuit is closing, shouldn't a panto be raised with the main switch open ?
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 15 July 2020 17:08:15(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Yes but it is difficult for ESU to compete with compact servos prices, less than 2 € apiece see here https://www.ebay.de/itm/Micro-SG...b0c9c:g:p6UAAOSwBjVetmyp
Cheers
Jean
Offline 1borna  
#11 Posted : 15 July 2020 20:06:41(UTC)
1borna

Croatia   
Joined: 21/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,340
Location: Hrvatska
In reality when a locomotive raises (and lowers) a pantograph its circuit must be switched off!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by 1borna
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