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Offline spitzenklasse  
#1 Posted : 12 April 2008 20:07:35(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
Hello all! Today is Saturday. Doing chores at home. Running trains in between too! I consisted a 12 car freight train 6 of which are loaded with weight. The little 37652 V 362 (metal version) is at 1/3 throttle. It has no problem pulling all these cars at moderate speed. So strong for a switching loc? I Like the Tel-Ex couplers too!
I just switched it out with the 39120 E-10.3 and it is pulling just as smooth. I'm checking it for the pcb control problem I've heard about. Keeping my fingers crossed here! "I know, I know" it's a passenger loc.-- Not to worry, it's regular job will be to haul the Rheingold, and Helvetia train when the 39573 103 is resting.
Offline spitzenklasse  
#2 Posted : 12 April 2008 22:53:49(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
Good news! I ran it for an hour and no problems. It did get warm though, pulling a dozen heavy cars, this is prbably normal?
Offline perz  
#3 Posted : 12 April 2008 23:28:38(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
It is normal that the lok gets warm. It shouldn't get hot though.

Märklin motors are strong. I have never seen a Märklin lok stall because the motor isn't strong enough. Typically you can hang on cars until either the lok slips, or, with the heavier loks, the couplers are pulled out of the NEM pockets. My tests (with somewhat heavier loks than the 37652) indicates that this happens when you have 70-90 cars or so. Much less if you have grades of course.

https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...ault.aspx?g=posts&t=4095
Offline spitzenklasse  
#4 Posted : 13 April 2008 15:56:29(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
Good, thank you. Generaly, I find that if I'm trying to haul too many cars, a lighter one somewhere in the consist will derail. I then weight that car. It usually solves it.
Offline jvuye  
#5 Posted : 14 April 2008 17:14:38(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
The pulling power of Marklin (and HAG) loks , with a few exceptions) is just fantastic and from an operational point of view, the main reason I have stuck with Marklin all these years.
As said elsewhere, I love running long prototypical trains, so pulling power has always been on the forefront of my "worries" Smile
That means 10 to 14 coaches for D-zug or IC/ EC, 6 to 10 for lok powered TEEs, and 50-100 axles for freights.
My heaviest "regular" wink train so far is a 16 cars + sleeperette Rollende Landstrasse, fully loaded with trucks.
That is 136 axles!
On a 3% grade,a pair of Marklin Re4/4II in MU pulls this with *no* sweat, and so does an Ae 8/14 or a pair of Crocodiles(albeit non "prototypical" in these cases).
Same applies for a pair of any HAG locs!
An old Mä 3047, upgraded with a 5 pole motor and digitized, does it on its own.
A 3047 pulls a train 12 metal 346 series Schurzenwagen with lights effortlessly.
Same for an original MS 800 upgraded with tires on one driving axle.
A 3031 "Lil' Brute" with Telex, similarly upgraded, moves any of the above trains around the yard, or pushes 40 cars over the hump while shunting freight cars.
My old 3025 railcar, the champion of superfast running, shows no trace of any wear on its (helicoidal) gears...
Before building the layout, I also tested the limits of what a spiral track system can support: a 2.7% grade, using R2 K-track as minimum radius, allows to run all the above trains with enough clearance for overhead wire running and no traction problem for practically any loks with a metal body.
I clean the track daily with a SchienenBoy car, immediately after each operating session.
That's all it takes.
Some of my loks have been running for 50+ years, in similar conditions.
The old (pre 1965) ones are now mostly in display cases, but they all continue to pull trains regularly.
None has failed mechanically, as far as I can remember.
Last year I finally replaced the gears in my first lok, a 1951 RSM 800, just because I thought she deserved it after the million(scale)km she has covered for my enjoyement.
I just have a couple of electrical failures to mention essentially due to my own negligence (too much oil, ultimately causing a short in the armature)
In 30+ years I have owned some of them, HAG locos never gave any trouble, besides regular maintenance:lube, brushes, tires, pick up shoes, pantographs.
Not this much can be said of ROCO or Liliput: *none* of my (few) ROCO or Liliput loks still has its original moto
Bottom line: let'm' old Marklin loks pull and you enjoy!
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline hxmiesa  
#6 Posted : 14 April 2008 18:39:39(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jvuye
Before building the layout, I also tested the limits of what a spiral track system can support: a 2.7% grade, using R2 K-track as minimum radius, allows to run all the above trains with enough clearance for overhead wire running and no traction problem for practically any loks with a metal body.

Jaques, don´t do that on your permanent layout! ;-)
Although it will work most of the time, I think you´ll bitterly regret installing a R2 helix! -Besides, not all locos, -not even M ones- are with metal bodies...
The problem is not only traction, but the cars falling inwards; If your train catches a glitch (power or other), havoc will occur!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline jvuye  
#7 Posted : 14 April 2008 21:25:24(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Hey, Henrik!
I knew someone would pick this up!
Good opportunity to get some practical feedback
On the actual layout it will indeed be a dual C-track helix, with R3 and R4. But I wanted to test the limits of the system.
Low center of gravity cars (like the rollende landstrasse) or a 12x 24cm metal coach train had no trouble going up!
You think R3 for the "up" part would still be a liability?

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline hxmiesa  
#8 Posted : 15 April 2008 12:25:34(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jvuye
On the actual layout it will indeed be a dual C-track helix, with R3 and R4. But I wanted to test the limits of the system.
Low center of gravity cars (like the rollende landstrasse) or a 12x 24cm metal coach train had no trouble going up!
You think R3 for the "up" part would still be a liability?

I think you are already fishing for a specific answer, so I´ll just play it straight into you hand; wink
In a helix the ramp going up should always be on the outside track. If you have a R3/R4, the R4 should be for going up and the R3 for going down. One must keep working on the plan/design until this point is fulfilled.

With the kind of trains you pretend to run, and to maximise stability of operation, you hould try to fit in R4/R5 instead. I did that on my 4 rounds helix(*);
The clearance is 100mm and the plate thickness is 10mm. That gives around 2.8% going up (R5) and 3.1% going down. I permitted myself the 110mm rise to allow the electrics to run with the pantos up free in the air...

(*): Check out my photos in the "My Layout" section here on the forum.
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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