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Offline TimR  
#1 Posted : 21 August 2009 10:19:28(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Ok, out of curiosity... and just for fun..
I decided to do a very quick (a few seconds), never-to-be-repeated pulling power contest.

Tested on C-track, flat surface. The object of this test is whether any of the contestants were able to push an all metal Delta Re 4/4 II (that is due to be converted to MFX) at speed level one. This like pulling a 500-600g of weight with brakes hard on.

First to go was my SDS BR 01. Starts well, but then struggles with lots of wheelspin. Next goes my decapod BR50. This model should be doing a lot better, I thought. As it turns out... not really. Lots of wheel spin too - even failed to move the 4/4 II.

Then comes my new 45. Hesitate for a second, but then manages to push it for a few cm before the nasty wheelspins. I didn't uncouple a train of 10 wagens behind it by the way, so it actually performed slightly better than the 01 or 50..... What a surprise!!

Ok, time for the Era V models to show their stuff.
Large Sinus Re 460 happily pushes the deadweight 4/4 II without any hesitation or wheelspin. And so is my Re 474 with SDS propulsion.
These two are simply effortless.

Very interesting results for me...

I don't usually like to subject my models to this kind of test - but let's just say after several collision incidents with similarly interesting results, I was just keen to try it out....


Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 21 August 2009 15:53:09(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I did these tests with Roco locos versus Märklin.
I found roco locos e.g. SBB Ae 8/14 pulled away the Märklin SBB Ae 8/14 (5pole motors)
Yes my SBB Re 460, BLS 465 (5pole) and Taurus (sinus)are good pulling locos.
Mind you the BR 50 although it has three driven axles only 2 axles have Rubbertyres.
the same goes for the BR 194. Weight is a crucial factor also.
My Märklin SBB Ae 6/8 (Crocodile) had no match for the Roco Crocodile.
Roco 2016 Diesel Loco ? not so good, just the amount of carriages.(no comparision).

Will do some tests with Roco ÖBB Rh 1044 and Märklin Br E 110, E 140, E 141,
Roco Ludmilla Br 232, very good pulling power.


regards.,
John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline mascagni  
#3 Posted : 21 August 2009 16:04:04(UTC)
mascagni


Joined: 25/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 826
Location: Tallahassee, FL USA
John: Perhaps you can construct a proper tournament between all your loks to order them by pulling power w.r.t. this test.--MM
Michael Mascagni, Tallahassee
If I weren't a Mathematician, I'd be a Violinist.--Albert Einstein
Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 21 August 2009 17:13:03(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mascagni
<br />John: Perhaps you can construct a proper tournament between all your loks to order them by pulling power w.r.t. this test.--MM

The pullingpowers between Märklin locos is very similar.


Cinus motors (earlier) have an enormous starting torque.
If a loco has the weight also it should have a very good pulling power.

Although Roco locos are lighter, they usually have 3, 4, 5 axles powered.Including their wurmgears makes them very good pulling locos.
some of them are lacking in weight.

For the average layout including any hills there are very poor performers in the Märklin range.
BR 53 is one of them.

Roco Steam locos with tender drive are not known to be good pullers.
An advantage with Roco locos is, you can exchange the non rubbertyres driving wheels with rubbertyres.

To make any worthwhile test runs, you could ruin some of your Rubbertyres, by stretching them.

some of you may have not noticed, Co-Co Locos, such as BR 50, BR 150, BR 151, BR 103, BR 194, BR 94, although they have three powered axles, 2 axles are touching the track, the middle one is slightly off the track.
You will notice this by closer inspection, your middle axle is clean and free from any track wear.
so if you consider increasing the pulling power by adding another axle with rubbertyres, you will not achieve very much.
Since I have modified most of my steam & older electric locos, I cannot deliver a true order of pulling power between locos of similar design. e.g BR 44 versus BR 50/BR 52/ BR 41 etc. etc.

Most Märklin Bo-Bo locos have the same drive and weight.

Although I prefer a sinus to a 5 pole motor, the difference in pullingpower, is irrelevent, in my opinion, usually the maximum carriages are 50, fully loaded e.g. with real coal or iron ore. (each carriages weighs approx. 260g = 260g x 50 = 13kg).

Just to proof it whether or not it can pull such a weight, is not advisable to do so over a longer distance or a period of time.

I've had my SBB Ae 8/14, (2 motors), SBB Ae 8/8, (2 motors), Roco DB BR 232), BR 191 (2 motors), Märklin BR 50 (3084, 10 rubbertyres), Märklin BR 41, (3082, 8 Rubbertyres), BR 44(3027, 3047, 10 Rubbertyres), another is the Swedish Iron Ore Train roco model (101-102) with 2 motors powered over 12 axles and 10 axles with Rubbertyres. or the three part older version.
pulling about 8.5kg.


UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

regards.,
John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Davy  
#5 Posted : 21 August 2009 20:02:27(UTC)
Davy


Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
A br 44 of my has pulled trains with a length of more then 7 meters.

M-track with a CS2.
Offline river6109  
#6 Posted : 21 August 2009 20:21:07(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Davy
<br />A br 44 of my has pulled trains with a length of more then 7 meters.




This depends on the weight of the whole train + if there are any curves and how sharp the curves are.


John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline TimR  
#7 Posted : 22 August 2009 01:18:54(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by river6109

Sinus motors (earlier) have an enormous starting torque.



The large Sinus models are very powerful indeed.

IMO there is very little difference compared to the newer one with SDS/Compact Sinus - the large Sinus might still have a slight edge under a more extreme test.
My light and compact E10.12 (SDS-powered) once accidentally got coupled on with a stationary Re 460 and 3 carriages and pull it effortlessly without any wheelspin.

There can be no doubt that all the Era V Sinus / Compact Sinus model have significant starting torque advantage over the older DCMs. Even before I coupled them on for this test, I knew that they would have passed the test with flying colours.

Starting torque is actually the most important for trains (perhaps less so in MRR though) - as this translates into the ability to start in the worst condition (slight incline, slippery condition, etc) with a long heavy train - without depending on assistance of a pusher engine.

What surprises me even more was that the BR50 was the worst performer in my little test. I mean, I can only heard endless praise in regards to this model's pulling power.
But in my limited test, both the BR45 and BR01 outpull it!

The fact that both of these steamers - especially the 01 with SDS - didn't do as well as my Bo-Bo loks, as John had pointed out - came down to the number of axles directly powered directly from the motor. Both the 45 and 01 only have one driving axle directly powered via worm gear from the motor - all the other driving axles are powered via side rods.
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline river6109  
#8 Posted : 28 August 2009 16:20:44(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Weight 1.280kg single loco: 640 gram

at the moment this loco has 4 traction tyres (2axles) for each loco.
the advantage is you could increase the pulling power by adding more axles with rubbertyres (e.g. 4 axles = 8 Rubbertyres) x 2 = 16 Rubbertyres ( 8 axles) for 2 locos.
the loco would still have 4 axles for track contact.
this would be one of the heaviest locos on the model train market (except brass locos)

UserPostedImage

regards.,
John


https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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