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alonso231gery		#1 Posted : 31 January 2006 03:04:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		I would like to know the top pulling locos. The first i guess is the Big Boy. I wonder if the 37990 and 37991 have the same pulling capability? The power can be of course measured by the number of wagons a loco can pull.
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verheyen		#2 Posted : 31 January 2006 03:15:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 639 Location: ,		Level track, uphill (What % grade), or downhill (What % grade)? Straight or through curves? What weight of train? p. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery <br />I would like to know the top pulling locos. The first i guess is the Big Boy. I wonder if the 37990 and 37991 have the same pulling capability? The power can be of course measured by the number of wagons a loco can pull.
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mrmarklin		#3 Posted : 31 January 2006 07:57:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 900 Location: Burney, CA		AFAIK the BB is the top puller among Marklin loks. Some of the double loks, like the F7 combos properly tuned will out pull it.
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john black		#4 Posted : 31 January 2006 12:54:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by verheyen <br />Level track, uphill (What % grade), or downhill (What % grade)? Straight or through curves? What weight of train? In your book you forgot about kind of track (M, K, C), and also about their relative condition (brand new, middle aged, old & worn out), is it heavily oiled or just slightly dusted, what about rust and other debris ... ??? And then there might be humidity, plus a myriad of other factors ... [xx(] Nikos: Simple question - simple answer. <u>Out of the box</u> - I, too, vote for the BIGBOY
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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alonso231gery		#5 Posted : 31 January 2006 15:57:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		the Big Boy can pull more than 150 wagons?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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john black		#6 Posted : 31 January 2006 17:12:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Got only 41 freight and 7 passenger cars. Plus that mini layout [xx(] But should I ever win in the lottery I'll tell you ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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perz		#7 Posted : 31 January 2006 21:02:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: the Big Boy can pull more than 150 wagons? I guess it can, but I don't have a Big boy so I can't test it. When I was a kid I saw a "gator" pull 100 cars around a "dogbone" track with 360 mm radius at the ends. This was with M track of course, it was in the 60's.
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alonso231gery		#8 Posted : 31 January 2006 21:06:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		200? 300? the 2 rail BB can pull 130..according to its' manufactor.
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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hmsfix		#9 Posted : 31 January 2006 21:43:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,383 Location: Darmstadt,		Don't have a BB either, nor do I have 150 cars to test. So can't test it. But I guess you are right: the BB will beat out them all. Did the test the other way. I asked: Do I have any lok that is *not* able to pull all my cars (45 in total) or at least those 29 4-axle freight cars that I get on my tracks simultaneously ? The answer is: no, all my loks pulled that 3.5 m train (no grades, of course, and only slim turnouts to pass): beginning with my analogic BR 89 (3000), the E 63 (3001), even BR 24 (3003, well, some wheel slipping when accelerating, but finally it pulls), up to # 37490, the GG-1. Result: a complete disaster, none of my loks satisfied the wheel slipping condition ! Any ideas ? Hans Martin
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john black		#10 Posted : 31 January 2006 22:23:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hmsfix <br />... none of my loks satisfied the wheel slipping condition ! Any ideas ? Sand ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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steventrain		#11 Posted : 31 January 2006 22:58:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,610 Location: United Kingdom		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery <br />200? 300? the 2 rail BB can pull 130..according to its' manufactor. That would be find but coupling getting cracking.
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mrmarklin		#12 Posted : 01 February 2006 04:23:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 900 Location: Burney, CA		See my review of the BB to get an idea of the load it will pull. My guess is that it would pull 150 wagons.
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franciscohg		#13 Posted : 01 February 2006 05:02:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,275 Location: Patagonia		Has somebody tried the Br 53 I have not enough cars to test it, nor a big layout right now. BTW, i am very happy with the pulling power of my croc and my old BR 01, also my old BR 23 with its new engine is a great puller too.
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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jango		#14 Posted : 01 February 2006 12:24:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2005(UTC) Posts: 79 Location: ,		My BR53 does not pull as well as its looks imply, however my BR50 & BR52 are both very strong.
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jerdenberg		#15 Posted : 01 February 2006 13:23:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,011 Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland		Hi all, About a year ago some pulling data about the BB and other engines appeared in a thread about 37991 (all is forgiven Herr Adams). When I tested my 37990 with 71 cars (271 axles) the BB had no problem, but the car couplers were strained to full extension, even causing derailments in 24188-24130 connections (I did not have R4/R5 then) so the real limit may be the couplers. Jeroen
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alonso231gery		#16 Posted : 01 February 2006 14:54:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mrmarklin <br />See my review of the BB to get an idea of the load it will pull. My guess is that it would pull 150 wagons. where is your review?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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mrmarklin		#17 Posted : 01 February 2006 19:04:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 900 Location: Burney, CA		In the Model Review section of this website. Look for Lok # 37990.
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alonso231gery		#18 Posted : 01 February 2006 19:47:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		you are Mario?
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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mrmarklin		#19 Posted : 01 February 2006 19:58:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 900 Location: Burney, CA		No, I'm Dave Pryor. Mario did the photo.
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alonso231gery		#20 Posted : 01 February 2006 23:05:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		u got the weathered version?
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jerdenberg		#21 Posted : 01 February 2006 23:10:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,011 Location: Den Helder, Noord-Holland		Hi all, Gathering all the cars I could, I coupled 119 cars with 421 axles to my BB 4015 (that train took up the outer track plus half the inner track of my temporary 6x2.6m double oval with 24430 and 24530 curves). Apart from a clicking sound produced by some couplers when entering a curve there was no problem at all. It even pushed the whole thing back easily. However, more than half of the cars are "modern" ones (e.g. the US material of the last several years) with rather lower rolling friction(?) than older cars. I would guess even 200 boxcars would not be a problem, but the limit might be much lower with the old 2-axle hobby cars. Jeroen Jeroen
		Figomima division, UP; mostly figment of my imagination yet.
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Hoffmann		#22 Posted : 02 February 2006 00:41:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,106 Location: Guelph, Ontario		Hi all, The only way to know for sure is to check the draw pull with a Spring scale (Federwaage). My money is on the PA-1 dual powered Diesel ( was tested by Model-Railroader). Martin
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alonso231gery		#23 Posted : 02 February 2006 14:46:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		BTW i believe that that extreme power some model have has no use since most of us do not own more than 150 wagons and since the couplers cannot stand that pressure...
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john black		#24 Posted : 02 February 2006 15:11:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery <br />since most of us do not own more than 150 wagons 48 cars only. I definitely belong to a minority [xx(] ... Any tax deductions [:p] for me ???
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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HueyCE		#25 Posted : 03 February 2006 02:16:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,528 Location: Groton, Connecticut		If only I could claim tax deductions for my M stuff, my CFO would be giving me purchase authorizations left and right. Ira
		Building German Era I-II layout(Mk IIIc).
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McLae		#26 Posted : 03 February 2006 04:37:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,575 Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX		After 32 cars, the top of the hiss has too many derailments. The long-base steam loks have trouble at the top of the hill (GT 2x4/4 and BBO 659)[:p] Most of my Loks have enough power for my layout, and that is what matters.
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Davy		#27 Posted : 03 February 2006 19:24:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands		My top pullars are still a br 44 steamengine nr 34881 with a 60901 decoder with a 140 axles train analoog on a k-track modular bahn of the trainclub from which I'm a member. And my V140 nr 37210 at home, which has pulled without much trouble a train off 174 axles more then 8 meters of train.
		M-track with a CS2.
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mrmarklin		#28 Posted : 03 February 2006 21:32:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 900 Location: Burney, CA		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery <br />u got the weathered version? Yes, I recently obtained it. Dave
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mrmarklin		#29 Posted : 03 February 2006 21:39:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 900 Location: Burney, CA		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery <br />BTW i believe that that extreme power some model have has no use since most of us do not own more than 150 wagons and since the couplers cannot stand that pressure... Many people I know have more than 150 cars. But rather than cars, were really talking about the number of axles. The limitations I suspect, are more in having enough layout room to run enough cars, and another is the close couplers on the more modern cars. Over 100 cars would certainly be prototypical. The test run I condicted some years ago used the older Marklin cars without the close couplers. At some point there is certainly a limitation there.
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mrmarklin		#30 Posted : 03 February 2006 21:44:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 900 Location: Burney, CA		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by franciscohg <br />Has somebody tried the Br 53 I have not enough cars to test it, nor a big layout right now. BTW, i am very happy with the pulling power of my croc and my old BR 01, also my old BR 23 with its new engine is a great puller too. The BR 53 would seem to be a candidate to be a good puller, but a couple of things prevent it from being so. One is that not all driving axles are actually driven! Only four are. Second is that other axles and wheels on the lok take some of the weight from the driven axles, thereby reducing its effectiveness. Nevertheless, I've seen the lok pull 74 cars. Certainly enough for most of us. Dave Pryor
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alonso231gery		#31 Posted : 03 February 2006 22:56:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		what is so special about close couplers?
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perz		#32 Posted : 03 February 2006 23:18:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:what is so special about close couplers? I think the general experience is that close couplers do not hold together as safely as the old relex couplers.
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verheyen		#33 Posted : 03 February 2006 23:21:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 639 Location: ,		Nothing really except that the cars are coupled together more closely making for more attractive consists. The problem is that they can pull out of the pockets so older wagens where the couplers were actually screwed into the base of the car are more secure. Likewise the loops on the new cars could pull apart under too heavy a load, maybe. The biggest danger is at the very beginning in setting the train into motion. I'm ignoring curves right now, but if the wheels roll freely the whole train will build up momentum and roll along... p. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by alonso231gery <br />what is so special about close couplers?
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perz		#34 Posted : 04 February 2006 16:39:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		I have been inspired to do some pull tests: On the picture, I have 80 cars and a BR216 (37744). This is a bit too much. With 70 cars there is some slipping but not disturbingly much. With 80 cars the train falls inwards in the end loops. So I tried to let the loco push 10 of the cars and pull the 70 other, but this was too much. The slipping is severe, although the train is still moving. I also tried with the BR 290 (37900). The result is the same, 70 cars is OK, 80 cars is too much. Both the 37744 and the 37900 are rather light locos with plastic bodies. I will try with something heavier as well, e.g. the 39820 or the 39190.
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perz		#35 Posted : 04 February 2006 19:25:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		The 39820 pulls/pushes 90 cars without problems. With 100 cars it slips noticeably. My track loop can hold 100 cars, no more.
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Guus		#36 Posted : 04 February 2006 19:37:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Hi Per, That's a great picture. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:The slipping is severe, although the train is still moving. So may I conclude if the loc had more weight it would probably pull even more cars? Kind regards Guus
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perz		#37 Posted : 04 February 2006 19:44:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		The 39190 surprisingly only pulls 70 cars nicely, and slips a lot with 80. The 39190 is almost as heavy as the 39820 and much heavier than the 37744 and 37900.
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perz		#38 Posted : 04 February 2006 19:46:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:So may I conclude if the loc had more weight it would probably pull even more cars? Yes, it definitely doesn't seem to be the motor strength that sets the limit in any of the locos I have tried with. I also think I would get better results if I had a longer track so that the train was only into one end loop at a time. Going around curves requires much more pulling power than going on straight track.
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alonso231gery		#39 Posted : 04 February 2006 19:57:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		perz some questions is it difficult to move these wagons with ur hands? do u have a 39560? i guess that the V200 and 3956X have beside the c sine a very good motor i guess that my 39560 can pull 130 wagons
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Guus		#40 Posted : 04 February 2006 20:48:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		I believe most Märklin loc engines have more than enough torque available to pull long trains. It's more a matter of how to get all that torque on the track.In the end it's not all that different from real life locos. So all we need is,what John already suggested earlier:... Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by John: Sand ... Maybe Märklin will install sandpipes in the near future....asigned to F12 on the CS All joking aside, I think C-sine locos with some weight on the drive train are likely to be the best in this aspect and I'm with Nikos that a 39560 might very well be able to pull that many cars. Kind regards Guus
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alonso231gery		#41 Posted : 04 February 2006 21:36:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		i doubt if my 39833 can pull as much as the 39560 some locos inspire might my 39821 is one of that kind also.[^][^][^]
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perz		#42 Posted : 04 February 2006 21:57:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:is it difficult to move these wagons with ur hands? Not really difficult, but it requires a considerable amount of force. More than I had expected actually. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:do u have a 39560? No, I don't. I have an old crocodile from the 60's though, but unfortunately it is not in any good shape so I left it out of the "pulling contest". Since the limit always seems to be set by slipping the heaviest locos will normally be the best pullers. But it also depend on things like the number of driving axles, traction tires, weight distribution etc. The remarkably low pulling capability of the 39190 must have such reasons.
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alonso231gery		#43 Posted : 04 February 2006 22:14:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		My V200 39821 is stronger than the 39820? since mfx c sine are weaker than the fx ones. u really do not want to put ur finger when she is moving.
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perz		#44 Posted : 04 February 2006 23:52:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:My V200 39821 is stronger than the 39820? since mfx c sine are weaker than the fx ones. Motor strength is irrelevant since slipping sets the limit in both cases. If your 39821 is heavier than the 39820 it is also stronger, otherwise not. I haven't ever seen a Märklin loco that stalls its motor before slipping. Maybe you can get that result if you press the loco down to the rails firmly by hand, but I think that would be a stupid test.
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hmsfix		#45 Posted : 05 February 2006 00:32:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,383 Location: Darmstadt,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by perz <br />The 39190 surprisingly only pulls 70 cars nicely, and slips a lot with 80. The 39190 is almost as heavy as the 39820 and much heavier than the 37744 and 37900. I am impressed, so many freight cars. But what about passenger coaches ? They are much harder to pull, especially the rather heavy tin plate and aluminium cars, when equipped with ski and mass contacts. I tried a train of 11 such cars: Impossible to move with my three axle shunting locos (3000, 3001, 3078)! 4-axle loks as E 41 (3034) or the F7 are at their limits (wheel slipping), but no problems with E 103, PA-1, Mikado, GG-1. Well, PA has pulled the coupler out of the NEM pocket when the train was at highest speed, and the tenders of the Mikado sometimes deraied in R1 curves. Probably electric couplers might be a real help when running long passenger trains. Hans Martin
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alonso231gery		#46 Posted : 05 February 2006 02:14:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		so there is a rule perz the heavier the stronger
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perz		#47 Posted : 05 February 2006 13:05:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: so there is a rule perz the heavier the stronger More or less yes. But as I mentioned before it is influenced by factors like the number of driven axles, weight distribution, number of traction tires, wheel size etc.
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Rudi Bekkers		#48 Posted : 05 February 2006 16:07:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 132 Location: Vught,		Hello all, In this context, you might be interested to see this (apparently successful) world record attempt, using Maerklin loco's to pull five (real) train cards with a total weight of 80,000 kilo(!) The loco's are put to sale with a special print, see here. Another interesting record is that with three large Roco locomotives pulling almost 900 cars for more than 600 meter. See here. Wonder how they managed to have the couplers handling this force! Best regards, Rudi
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john black		#49 Posted : 06 February 2006 10:14:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Rudi Bekkers <br />Wonder how they managed to have the couplers handling this force Welded shut ?
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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alonso231gery		#50 Posted : 09 October 2006 00:34:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,957 Location: Hellas (Athens)		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:but the limit might be much lower with the old 2-axle hobby cars. Actually you cannot pull even 10 of them,they cause problems all the time.[xx(]
		An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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