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Offline Oscar  
#1 Posted : 13 November 2005 16:19:55(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
I bought a nice 3072.1 this week. It's not intended for heavy use (hey, I'm a retirement home for vintage Märklin - this one is gonna go on display and it'll be treated like royalty). I changed all 4 traction tyres, which were completely solidified - they fell to pieces when I removed them. But even with 4 new tyres, the grip that this loco has on the track is very limited. When climbing ramps, the drive bogey needs to be at the rear, not the front, in order to get to the top of the ramp. That way, the weight of the train exerts a bit of downward pressure which prevents slipping. When the drive bogey is up front, it starts slipping halfway up. To test pulling power, I compared it to a mid-'80s 3075. The difference is striking. That 3075 has 6 times (yes, 6 times) the pulling power of the 3072 before slipping occurs. The engine of the 3072 isn't the problem, it's strong as an ox. But traction, pure grip, is rather limited. The 3072 weighs a lot less than the 3075 and it's wheel diameter is much smaller. That also translates into less grip.

Did anyone ever try to put some lead into a 3072? Similar experiences?
Offline dudok12  
#2 Posted : 15 November 2005 12:47:02(UTC)
dudok12


Joined: 25/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 152
Location: Eindhoven,
Oscar: what is a 3072? I do not have a Koll with me all the time... I would think that weight is essential to get good traction. If the motor is powerful enough, it is worth the experiment to see what some added wight/lead might do. Smaller wheels should not have a nasty effect on tractive power: don't all goods steam locomotives have small diameter wheels?
IB since 2000. Latest loc aquisition: 37554 BR 55 a long time ago...
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#3 Posted : 15 November 2005 15:10:35(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 754
Location: Täby
It's a V100 diesel loco. 3075 is the V160/BR216. Both loco have the same configuration of axles (Bo'Bo) but the V160 is a bigger and heavier loco.

To get some extra traction, adding weight is the best cure. Unfortunately there is usually not so much space around the driving bogie of older Märklin locos, because the motor itself takes up a lot of room. If you can put some extra weight in the driving end it is much better than in the center of the loco, since a hevy weight in the moddle adds up to the load the loco has to pull.

I do beleive the wheel diameter matters, because bigger wheels have more surface in contact with the rails. But of course this has more of an academic role, since you want the loco to look like the prototype. In the eras of steam locos actually the wheels were bigger on express locos, since they had to travel with higher speed, and the mechanical parts otherwise would have to move back and forward with a rather high frequency. Freight locos were slower, and they could have smaller wheels. This allowed for more axles to distribute the weight and allow the heaviest freight locos to travel on railroads with less maximum axle load.
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
Offline Munich 1860  
#4 Posted : 28 November 2005 01:11:42(UTC)
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,058
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Reading your post, I set up a little layout this afternoon, to try out the 3072. Fifteen trucks, some of them quite heavy, no problem at all. Exception: when going VERY slow, the loco slipped at one place, but regained grip immediately again .....

Many regards,

Hans

UserPostedImage

Edited by moderator 11 January 2011 16:14:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
Offline steventrain  
#5 Posted : 28 November 2005 09:34:08(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Very nice long train you build it.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline MärCo  
#6 Posted : 28 November 2005 11:25:38(UTC)
MärCo


Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
— Did you fit the right traction tyres on the wheels? If they are too great, they won't work.
— Oil and dirt on the rails has a bad influence on traction power. Seek for it that the rails are clean. Specially the C rails get dirty fast.
— I have noticed that the new locomotives has traction tyres only at one site. This reduces also the traction power.
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
Offline MärCo  
#7 Posted : 28 November 2005 11:28:19(UTC)
MärCo


Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
And also: how good are your cars rolling? Smoothly?
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
Offline Oscar  
#8 Posted : 28 November 2005 21:16:14(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
I did a test with a rubber band strung across the track and measured how far the loco could push it back before the wheels start to lose their grip. The measurement was done at 8 Volts. The 3075 BR216 got 75% further than the 3072 V100. Not that the 3072 is weak (it isn't), but the difference with a 3075 is striking. I think weight and wheel surface area are making the difference.

Great train you have there, Hans. I have a little permanent lay-out now, but it sure is fun to just make something on the floor and let your imagination run free.
Offline Munich 1860  
#9 Posted : 29 November 2005 11:05:47(UTC)
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,058
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Oscar
<br />Great train you have there, Hans. I have a little permanent lay-out now, but it sure is fun to just make something on the floor and let your imagination run free.
Thank you, Oscar !!

I knew you would like the composition. The freight train in front is, right to left: 3072, 4628, 4630, 4642, 4645 (3 units), 4654 (from MUNICH !!!), 4613 (two different ones with Ford 12 m and Ford 17 m respectively ... note the loose cars on the back waggon ....), 4629 (2 units) and 4640 (3 units, 2 white. one blue) .

And of course I am taking deep interest in your layout progress, don't worry !!! Your every move is watched !!!!

Regards,

Hans
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
Offline Oscar  
#10 Posted : 30 November 2005 15:31:57(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Munich 1860
I knew you would like the composition. The freight train in front is, right to left: 3072, 4628, 4630, 4642, 4645 (3 units), 4654 (from MUNICH !!!), 4613 (two different ones with Ford 12 m and Ford 17 m respectively ... note the loose cars on the back waggon ....), 4629 (2 units) and 4640 (3 units, 2 white. one blue). And of course I am taking deep interest in your layout progress, don't worry !!! Your every move is watched !!!!
That's a very nice composition indeed [:p]. What loco is pulling the other train? Looks like the red French Capitole loco. I'm not working much on my lay-out now, unfortunately. I'm extremely busy with work [V].
Offline verheyen  
#11 Posted : 30 November 2005 15:50:55(UTC)
verheyen


Joined: 25/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 639
Location: ,
I have the later delta and recent 37x versions of this engine and can sympathize regarding the pulling power but in different areas. Mechanically they are all identical. Neither of mine have problems pulling a long consist up my 3% ramps pulling a consist like the one shown, well perhaps one or two cars shorter. The old tin-plate Silberling control cabs are especially high in friction due to the mechanism used to actuate the light change. Where the engines do have problems is pulling heavier trains up hill and through turnouts (at the same time), especially the double slip switch (there even on level ground at times.The slider seems to lift the engine up, dramatically reducing pulling power. This will also happen on other turnouts but to a lesser degree. I don't think more weight would do the job, but might give it a try. Interestingly enough, my Roco V80 which is much maligned for it's pulling power does a better job.

p.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Oscar
<br />I changed all 4 traction tyres, which were completely solidified - they fell to pieces when I removed them. But even with 4 new tyres, the grip that this loco has on the track is very limited. When climbing ramps, the drive bogey needs to be at the rear, not the front, in order to get to the top of the ramp...

Did anyone ever try to put some lead into a 3072? Similar experiences?
Offline Munich 1860  
#12 Posted : 30 November 2005 16:51:08(UTC)
Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,058
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by verheyen
<br />I have the later delta and recent 37x versions of this engine and can sympathize regarding the pulling power but in different areas. Mechanically they are all identical. Neither of mine have problems pulling a long consist up my 3% ramps pulling a consist like the one shown, well perhaps one or two cars shorter. The old tin-plate Silberling control cabs are especially high in friction due to the mechanism used to actuate the light change. Where the engines do have problems is pulling heavier trains up hill and through turnouts (at the same time), especially the double slip switch (there even on level ground at times.The slider seems to lift the engine up, dramatically reducing pulling power. This will also happen on other turnouts but to a lesser degree. I don't think more weight would do the job, but might give it a try. Interestingly enough, my Roco V80 which is much maligned for it's pulling power does a better job.

p.
Hi Peter,

very interesting, and also my observation regarding the Silberling Steuerwagen !!!!

Also interesting is your remark re the V 80 by Roco.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Oscar

That's a very nice composition indeed . What loco is pulling the other train? Looks like the red French Capitole loco. I'm not working much on my lay-out now, unfortunately. I'm extremely busy with work .
Oscar, yes,

the second train is a French consist. My 3059 from 1969 is pulling five Capitole cars 4075, one French 4069 sleeper car and one silver 4076 passenger car. And the 3038 loco is just lying around on the carpet .....

Your other remark:

I am pretty busy myself now, but thanks God it is so !!!

Many regards,

Hans
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
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