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Offline tinroofrusted  
#1 Posted : 07 September 2021 15:48:19(UTC)
tinroofrusted

Korea, Republic Of   
Joined: 16/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Seoul-teukbyeolsi, Seoul
Hey, all,
This is Thomas. I have some LED lights ( 3v/ 20 mV) that look better than the just plug from Woodland scenics. I have been busy getting the old Marklin layout wired and bought Woodland Scenics just plug as My layout is small and it was a no brainer. Now I am interested in using my brain. Woodland Scenics is a 24v power supply, so my question is two fold. Can you plug generic LEDs into Woodland Scenics just plug? And 24v power supply with LED lights ( 3v/ 20mV) plugged in to Oma Law need A 1050 ohm resistor. That seems high to me. Did I calculate wrong? Thanks for the help in advance. T
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Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 07 September 2021 16:09:54(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 970
Location: Michigan, Troy
Hi Thomas! Welcome! The Just plug system is 12 or 16 volts as well. Their Led's are brighter with 16 v. a/c. Thats what I use. I found the same case with Viessman Led items.
Now brightness can also be affected by the resistors you use. I played with the Just plug nano led's and the sequencing hub to simulate a fire. Not very good, in fact I don't really care for their sequencing hub much. I then tried their nano flashing led's. Not optimal performers either. Some are dim, some don't flash once you turn up the dimmers.
I got better results with the Viessman flasher unit. It has 4 output terminal ports. The old Marklin/Brawa style plugs fit too. Not the new style though.
With the Just plug expansion hub, you can connect led's once you add resistors. I use 2.2k ohm 1/2 watt 6%. Same on the Viessman flasher unit. So you can wire a Viessman flasher to it also. Viessman crossing warning signals include pre soldered resistors.
Some of my older buildings still have 16 volt incandescant bulbs. i like the variance of brightness and hue.
I'm no expert at calculating resistance either. Tables I look at confuse me. They list too many variables. If you install a resistor, you'll know if it is too weak because the wire to the Led will be too warm or hot. Nano lights usually have wired in ones, and those will be hot if too much voltage or amperage is applied.
Offline DaleSchultz  
#3 Posted : 07 September 2021 18:55:31(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,868
24V/ 0.02A = 1200 Ohms

20mA is usually the maximum current the LED can handle and is probably too bright. If you aim for 10mA then

24V/0.01 = 2400 Ohms
16V/0.01 = 1600 Ohms
12V/0.01 = 1200 Ohms

So generally something over 1K Ohms is good for up to 20V
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline DaleSchultz  
#4 Posted : 07 September 2021 18:58:41(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,868
BTW for the last couple of months I have been upgrading my RemoteSign ESP modules to do multiple lighting effects, including train signals, traffic light signals, animations and effects such as lightning, flames, welder, cooling slag, coals, camera flashes, flashers, random on & off, sunrise, sunset etc... I hope to release it soon.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by DaleSchultz
Online H0  
#5 Posted : 07 September 2021 19:39:14(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,261
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
24V/ 0.02A = 1200 Ohms
Right. But since there is a voltage drop of 3 V in the diode, the calculation is 21 V / 0.02 A = 1050 Ohms, as given by the OP. It can't harm to add some 100 Ohms to allow for higher voltages from the power supply.

But 10 mA are usually very bright with modern LEDs, as you say, and sometimes 10 k or even 20 k can be used, depending on where you use them.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline tinroofrusted  
#6 Posted : 08 September 2021 03:44:34(UTC)
tinroofrusted

Korea, Republic Of   
Joined: 16/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Seoul-teukbyeolsi, Seoul
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Thomas! Welcome! The Just plug system is 12 or 16 volts as well. Their Led's are brighter with 16 v. a/c. Thats what I use. I found the same case with Viessman Led items.
Now brightness can also be affected by the resistors you use. I played with the Just plug nano led's and the sequencing hub to simulate a fire. Not very good, in fact I don't really care for their sequencing hub much. I then tried their nano flashing led's. Not optimal performers either. Some are dim, some don't flash once you turn up the dimmers.
I got better results with the Viessman flasher unit. It has 4 output terminal ports. The old Marklin/Brawa style plugs fit too. Not the new style though.
With the Just plug expansion hub, you can connect led's once you add resistors. I use 2.2k ohm 1/2 watt 6%. Same on the Viessman flasher unit. So you can wire a Viessman flasher to it also. Viessman crossing warning signals include pre soldered resistors.
Some of my older buildings still have 16 volt incandescant bulbs. i like the variance of brightness and hue.
I'm no expert at calculating resistance either. Tables I look at confuse me. They list too many variables. If you install a resistor, you'll know if it is too weak because the wire to the Led will be too warm or hot. Nano lights usually have wired in ones, and those will be hot if too much voltage or amperage is applied.


Marklin5999, Thank you for the information. It all makes sense. Can I ask one more favor? What is the color code of the 2.2kohm 1/2 watt 6%? I live in South Korea. Sometimes you get someone who understands resistors and sometimes you get his teenage son who knows how to push the buttons on the register. Everything ne4ed to be translated and I have found that showing a picture is worth a thousand miscommunications and frustrations. You are the best. T
Offline tinroofrusted  
#7 Posted : 08 September 2021 03:47:31(UTC)
tinroofrusted

Korea, Republic Of   
Joined: 16/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Seoul-teukbyeolsi, Seoul
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
BTW for the last couple of months I have been upgrading my RemoteSign ESP modules to do multiple lighting effects, including train signals, traffic light signals, animations and effects such as lightning, flames, welder, cooling slag, coals, camera flashes, flashers, random on & off, sunrise, sunset etc... I hope to release it soon.


Dale, This is Thomas. Thank you for the information. It is easily understood. I would love to see what you are able to come up with as I am at the beginning stages of this whole thing and just want things to light up. Fire and all would be wonderful to see. T
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by tinroofrusted
Offline tinroofrusted  
#8 Posted : 08 September 2021 03:53:09(UTC)
tinroofrusted

Korea, Republic Of   
Joined: 16/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Seoul-teukbyeolsi, Seoul
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
24V/ 0.02A = 1200 Ohms
Right. But since there is a voltage drop of 3 V in the diode, the calculation is 21 V / 0.02 A = 1050 Ohms, as given by the OP. It can't harm to add some 100 Ohms to allow for higher voltages from the power supply.

But 10 mA are usually very bright with modern LEDs, as you say, and sometimes 10 k or even 20 k can be used, depending on where you use them.


HO,

Thank you for your reply. As long as I can get the color codes and can find a picture, I am going to be good. Again, most things are international, but there is a lot in Asia that is "special' for the Asian market. AWG has no meaning here if you are trying to buy wire. There are some fun hoops to jump through to make sure you get the right stuff. Most the time for big items, I buy it from the states or Europe. However, buying small things is not cost effective per the shipping. I will get these wired up and if I blow up something, I will be back.
Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 08 September 2021 11:31:57(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 970
Location: Michigan, Troy
Thomas, the resistor color is tan. The bands are red, and silver.
Offline tinroofrusted  
#10 Posted : 08 September 2021 13:34:23(UTC)
tinroofrusted

Korea, Republic Of   
Joined: 16/08/2021(UTC)
Posts: 10
Location: Seoul-teukbyeolsi, Seoul
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Thomas, the resistor color is tan. The bands are red, and silver.


Thanks, Marklinist5999. I have a picture and will get them this weekend. Your help has been of great value. T
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by tinroofrusted
Offline kiwiAlan  
#11 Posted : 08 September 2021 17:50:13(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,294
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: tinroofrusted Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Thomas, the resistor color is tan. The bands are red, and silver.


Thanks, Marklinist5999. I have a picture and will get them this weekend. Your help has been of great value. T


Resistor Colour Code.png

See the attached colour chart. I think the tan colour mentioned is the colour of the body, but that could be any colour.

Resistors normally come as per the top image in the attachment, and for 2k2 you will have three red bands, then probably a gold band for the fourth one. I don't think anyone does resistors of wider than 5% tolerance these days.

If you end up with one according the lower image you will end up with red-red-brown-black and then brown or red for the fifth band would be most likely. I would be surprised if you got a gold or silver fifth band as the extra precision in specifying the vale normally means it will be closer tolerance as well.

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Online H0  
#12 Posted : 08 September 2021 18:06:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,261
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: tinroofrusted Go to Quoted Post
And 24v power supply with LED lights ( 3v/ 20mV) plugged in to Oma Law need A 1050 ohm resistor.
Standard resistors often have 0.25 W.
With 21 V and 20 mA I get 0.42 W resistor load, so a type with 0.5 W or more should be used.
When a larger Ohm value is used and the current is 10 mA or less, then a resistor with 0.25 W will be sufficient.
With a 21 V / 3 V split, 87.5% of the power will be used to heat up the resistor with only 12.5% going to the LED (which will also emit some warmth).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
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