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Question Help needed - Marklin AC to Digital Conversion
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Offline Giovanni Carboni  
#1 Posted : 16 November 2023 15:55:51(UTC)
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Giovanni Carboni

Italy   
Joined: 08/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: Toscana, Pisa
Hello everybody.

It is now several years that I joined this forum but this is my second post!

My request is pretty peculiar!

In 2015 I converted an old Marklin DM800 to a 5-pole DC motor using Marklin kit 60943.
I also added an electronic reverser (see below). All went OK. However I never tried it in digital mode.

Then I stored away the locomotive until yesterday, when I powered it again.


The problem is that I don't remember anymore what reverser/decoder model I used. I don't even know if
it is simply a reverser or if it also a digital decoder. I believe it's Uhlenbrock.
I would like to remember the type so I could get another one to convert a second loco.
The circuit board has 7 wires, with the gray and orange going to the motor brushes.
I went through the old Uhlenbrock manuals but I couldn't figure out what type it is.


Maybe some expert could suggest what type could be. It shoud have been a popular type in 2015.
The only way I have to test it for digital operation is a Delta control 6604, but it does not respond in
any position.

Thanks in advance

Giovanni
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Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 17 November 2023 11:34:56(UTC)
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marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,139
Location: Michigan, Troy
Can you post a photo of the reverse unit?
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Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 17 November 2023 19:04:58(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: Giovanni Carboni Go to Quoted Post
Hello everybody.

It is now several years that I joined this forum but this is my second post!

My request is pretty peculiar!

In 2015 I converted an old Marklin DM800 to a 5-pole DC motor using Marklin kit 60943.
I also added an electronic reverser (see below). All went OK. However I never tried it in digital mode.

Then I stored away the locomotive until yesterday, when I powered it again.


The problem is that I don't remember anymore what reverser/decoder model I used. I don't even know if
it is simply a reverser or if it also a digital decoder. I believe it's Uhlenbrock.
I would like to remember the type so I could get another one to convert a second loco.
The circuit board has 7 wires, with the gray and orange going to the motor brushes.
I went through the old Uhlenbrock manuals but I couldn't figure out what type it is.


Maybe some expert could suggest what type could be. It shoud have been a popular type in 2015.
The only way I have to test it for digital operation is a Delta control 6604, but it does not respond in
any position.

Thanks in advance

Giovanni


I have never ever used Delta control 6604 but if i think right this works only with ac power?
I don´t think Uhlenbrock does works with the Delta control either too because you must use Märklins delta decoder?


H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Giovanni Carboni  
#4 Posted : 18 November 2023 10:49:47(UTC)
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Giovanni Carboni

Italy   
Joined: 08/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: Toscana, Pisa
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Can you post a photo of the reverse unit?

Thanks for your reply. Here is the picture

After a lot of Googlin' I think that my decoder corresponds to Uhlenbrock 74120 (same board layout, same tiny connector, same color coding of wires).

I could find only a copy of the 74120 manual in German, and it seems that the decoder has a lot of functions. But I can't understand if it can be used simply as a reverser with standard AC power, as mine does.






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Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 18 November 2023 11:13:02(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: Giovanni Carboni Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Can you post a photo of the reverse unit?

Thanks for your reply. Here is the picture

After a lot of Googlin' I think that my decoder corresponds to Uhlenbrock 74120 (same board layout, same tiny connector, same color coding of wires).

I could find only a copy of the 74120 manual in German, and it seems that the decoder has a lot of functions. But I can't understand if it can be used simply as a reverser with standard AC power, as mine does.



If this is 74120 you have multiprotocol decoder.
It works with analog too but not with the Delta control.
If i think right Delta control 6604 you must coding decoder adress in the multiprotocol decoder.
Then in case you must use digital system because Uhlenbrock does not have coding switches.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline bph  
#6 Posted : 18 November 2023 13:35:40(UTC)
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bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by: Giovanni Carboni Go to Quoted Post

After a lot of Googlin' I think that my decoder corresponds to Uhlenbrock 74120 (same board layout, same tiny connector, same color coding of wires).

I could find only a copy of the 74120 manual in German, and it seems that the decoder has a lot of functions. But I can't understand if it can be used simply as a reverser with standard AC power, as mine does.

If it is a 74120, it should work with your 6604, if you change the Motorola address to one of the four addresses that the 6604 supports. However, note the 6604 is quite old so nothing is guaranteed. But it's worth a try, If you know someone nearby with a more advanced controller, that can program the decoder.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 18 November 2023 15:14:15(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


If this is 74120 you have multiprotocol decoder.
It works with analog too but not with the Delta control.
If i think right Delta control 6604 you must coding decoder adress in the multiprotocol decoder.
Then in case you must use digital system because Uhlenbrock does not have coding switches.



Yet more disinformation from Goofy. If set up at one of the four Marklin addresses that the Delta decoder will control there is no reason for it to not work.

It could be a DCC only controller, although Goofy has reason to think it is a multiprotocol one, so it should be settable to Marklin Motorola. The biggest problem will be that a 6604 will not be able to change the address or any other features of the decoder.

Secondly as this decoder is 15 years old you are unlikely to find a new one anywhere (although you may get lucky and fine some very old unsold stock somewhere). You might find an old one on eBay or similar site. Decoder technology has moved on considerably in the last 15 years.
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Offline Goofy  
#8 Posted : 18 November 2023 19:53:01(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post


If this is 74120 you have multiprotocol decoder.
It works with analog too but not with the Delta control.
If i think right Delta control 6604 you must coding decoder adress in the multiprotocol decoder.
Then in case you must use digital system because Uhlenbrock does not have coding switches.



Yet more disinformation from Goofy. If set up at one of the four Marklin addresses that the Delta decoder will control there is no reason for it to not work.

It could be a DCC only controller, although Goofy has reason to think it is a multiprotocol one, so it should be settable to Marklin Motorola. The biggest problem will be that a 6604 will not be able to change the address or any other features of the decoder.

Secondly as this decoder is 15 years old you are unlikely to find a new one anywhere (although you may get lucky and fine some very old unsold stock somewhere). You might find an old one on eBay or similar site. Decoder technology has moved on considerably in the last 15 years.



In fact no!
Delta control works only with ac trafo and there is limited function.
You can only set 4 different adress via coding switches.
If you have electronic decoder you must use digital system by program adress on the programming track.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline bph  
#9 Posted : 18 November 2023 22:50:54(UTC)
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bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 996
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

If this is 74120 you have multiprotocol decoder.
It works with analog too but not with the Delta control.
If i think right Delta control 6604 you must coding decoder adress in the multiprotocol decoder.
Then in case you must use digital system because Uhlenbrock does not have coding switches.

Yet more disinformation from Goofy. If set up at one of the four Marklin addresses that the Delta decoder will control there is no reason for it to not work.

It could be a DCC only controller, although Goofy has reason to think it is a multiprotocol one, so it should be settable to Marklin Motorola. The biggest problem will be that a 6604 will not be able to change the address or any other features of the decoder.

Secondly as this decoder is 15 years old you are unlikely to find a new one anywhere (although you may get lucky and fine some very old unsold stock somewhere). You might find an old one on eBay or similar site. Decoder technology has moved on considerably in the last 15 years.

In fact no!
Delta control works only with ac trafo and there is limited function.
You can only set 4 different adress via coding switches.
If you have electronic decoder you must use digital system by program adress on the programming track.

Any digital decoder that supports the MM (Marklin Motorola) format should work with the 6604, as long as you set the MM address to 78,72,60 or 24. (or 80 if you use the Delta pilot).
According to uhlenbrock, the 74120 suport Mortorola. So if the decoder is correctly programmed to one of the 4 "Delta" addresses, it should work on the 6604.
the address change can not be done with the 6604, but needs to be done on a more advanced controller.
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Offline Goofy  
#10 Posted : 19 November 2023 07:36:29(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
As i did wrote TS need digital system to program correct adress because Uhlenbrock decoder does not have coding switches.
Delta control 6604 support only four fixed adress.
And you must set MM protocol.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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bph
Offline Purellum  
#11 Posted : 19 November 2023 10:50:55(UTC)
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Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Giovanni Carboni Go to Quoted Post
But I can't understand if it can be used simply as a reverser with standard AC power, as mine does.


It can, if it is a 74120; but it has to be configured correctly, CV29 must be set to 4 to automatically understand analog.

Tip: When looking at the PDF manual, press "Ctrl + F" on your PC, and then type in "Analog", then you find all the 22 entries in the PDF
that describes how to use and configure the decoder in analog mode BigGrin

https://www.uhlenbrock.d...ndbook/de/Bes74120_3.pdf

Of course, if you only have a 6604 and a trafo, you need someone to help you configure the decoder.

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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bph
Offline Giovanni Carboni  
#12 Posted : 19 November 2023 20:02:31(UTC)
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Giovanni Carboni

Italy   
Joined: 08/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: Toscana, Pisa
Many thanks to all of you for the very complete answers. I find the group very informative and useful.

To summarize:

I understand that the 74120 was an overkill for me, since at the time I purchased it (2015) I only wanted a reversing module. But
if I plan to go to digital it's a good decoder, albeit a bit old. So I can keep it.

I also understand from your replies that the 6604 is not working because the 74120 has by default the loco address 3, but perhaps it won't work in any case even with a Delta-compatible address. I think a dealer nearby could re-program the address, just to try.

However I was just curious about trying the 6604: if I will really go digital I thought getting a Roco Multi Maus controller, since I understand that
the 74120 could work with that. Is it a valid choice?

For the other loco I plan to digitize (a vintage CE800) I ordered a Uhlenbrock 76200 so I don't need to modify the motor.
Hope it is a good choice.

BigGrin














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