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Offline Puttputtmaru  
#1 Posted : 21 March 2021 14:57:45(UTC)
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Puttputtmaru

Canada   
Joined: 15/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 201
Location: Quebec, Montreal
I ordered a digital starter kit to get my feet wet with Rocrail. It comes with the No. 66955 command station which should work with Rockrail from what I can see on the site ( https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=mbus:mbus-en )

My question now.
In the futur as I use Rocrail for my big layout is the CS3 needed or will the 66955 be enough as the interface between my computer and Rocrail to control everything?
Will I be missing out on some functions?
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 21 March 2021 16:08:14(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,107
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Puttputtmaru Go to Quoted Post
I ordered a digital starter kit to get my feet wet with Rocrail. It comes with the No. 66955 command station which should work with Rockrail from what I can see on the site ( https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=mbus:mbus-en )


What start set did you get? I don't recognise that 66955 command station, and cannot see it on the page you linked.
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Offline michelvr  
#3 Posted : 21 March 2021 17:06:41(UTC)
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michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Puttputtmaru Go to Quoted Post
I ordered a digital starter kit to get my feet wet with Rocrail. It comes with the No. 66955 command station which should work with Rockrail from what I can see on the site ( https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=mbus:mbus-en )


What start set did you get? I don't recognise that 66955 command station, and cannot see it on the page you linked.



I just checked out the number and it’s the Trix mobile station.

The most important component is going to be a computer and the related equipment needed to make it operate from the computer. Best is to plan what you want to achieve and then source out which manufacturer you want to use. If I was going to use Rocrail I would seriously consider;


Dijikeiks: Digicentral The first central with all imaginable connectors combined in one device. Clear LED displays and integrated USB, LAN and WIFI

https://www.digikeijs.co...c-multi-bus-central.html

I’ve been dabbling with DCC for a long time and for my money Dijikeiks seem to be doing it the right way, component by component. I don’t have any of their products but if I was starting that’s where my money would go.
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Offline Puttputtmaru  
#4 Posted : 21 March 2021 18:20:30(UTC)
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Puttputtmaru

Canada   
Joined: 15/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 201
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Puttputtmaru Go to Quoted Post
I ordered a digital starter kit to get my feet wet with Rocrail. It comes with the No. 66955 command station which should work with Rockrail from what I can see on the site ( https://wiki.rocrail.net/doku.php?id=mbus:mbus-en )


What start set did you get? I don't recognise that 66955 command station, and cannot see it on the page you linked.



This is the set I got: Märklin 29000 (HO) Digital Starter Pack and Märklin 24902 (HO) C Track C2 Extension Set. May be I got the wrong number for the command station, I did not get it yet. The page I linked has a picture of it on the right hand side.

I am going to go the K-Track way, I have plenty of them but this will be my >experimental layout<
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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#5 Posted : 21 March 2021 21:35:52(UTC)
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Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 398
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
In your situation, I chose to buy bits and pieces from CAN Digital Bahn, and I have been quite satisfied with the result. In this setup, the Märklin TrackBox 60116 or 60113 has the central role; a MS2 is strictly optional. I hardly ever touch the one I have.

I'm sure similar solutions from other manufacturers work as well. I preferred CAN Digital as their architecture uses the CAN bus for all messaging.

In any case, if one uses Rocrail to run trains, I personally find that a full-blown standalone command station is an overkill.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline franciscohg  
#6 Posted : 22 March 2021 04:43:53(UTC)
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franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,270
Location: Patagonia
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post
In your situation, I chose to buy bits and pieces from CAN Digital Bahn, and I have been quite satisfied with the result. In this setup, the Märklin TrackBox 60116 or 60113 has the central role; a MS2 is strictly optional. I hardly ever touch the one I have.

I'm sure similar solutions from other manufacturers work as well. I preferred CAN Digital as their architecture uses the CAN bus for all messaging.

In any case, if one uses Rocrail to run trains, I personally find that a full-blown standalone command station is an overkill.


Absolutely agreed, if you are going for PC control you dont need a fully functional command station, just the interface. On the other hand i think thst the digikeijs system is still very far away from maturity, as for i was told by several people who bought the station. I bought myself some other components and sadly i must ssy that they are happily lying in their boxes now.
Regards
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline PeFu  
#7 Posted : 22 March 2021 07:10:36(UTC)
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PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,209
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post

In any case, if one uses Rocrail to run trains, I personally find that a full-blown standalone command station is an overkill.


I agree in general, however IMHO there could be at least two reasons:

(1) Access to Mfx protocol: Myself, I only run engines on DCC and MM protocols, so this feature is not a valid argument for me.

(2) Booster control: I have two 60175 boosters connected via a terminal to the CS2, and I’m impressed by the operational quality and overview this setup provides. No more ”sparks” when trains move between booster sections. I need to add, my only benchmark is the old 6021 booster management, I have no experience from other modern boosters.

Smile
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
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Offline Puttputtmaru  
#8 Posted : 22 March 2021 14:34:02(UTC)
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Puttputtmaru

Canada   
Joined: 15/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 201
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post

In any case, if one uses Rocrail to run trains, I personally find that a full-blown standalone command station is an overkill.


I agree in general, however IMHO there could be at least two reasons:

(1) Access to Mfx protocol: Myself, I only run engines on DCC and MM protocols, so this feature is not a valid argument for me.

(2) Booster control: I have two 60175 boosters connected via a terminal to the CS2, and I’m impressed by the operational quality and overview this setup provides. No more ”sparks” when trains move between booster sections. I need to add, my only benchmark is the old 6021 booster management, I have no experience from other modern boosters.

Smile


Your point ( 1) is also important to me. So am I to understand that if I don’t have a Marklin CS (CS2 or CS3) I will not have access to the mfx protocol.Crying

Sorry for the newbie questions guys but although I have plenty of k-tracks and very old Markilin locos all analog, I am for now starting from zero going all digital. And will only use the latest product that is available. I will retrofit if possible later.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 22 March 2021 14:49:39(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,107
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Puttputtmaru Go to Quoted Post

Your point ( 1) is also important to me. So am I to understand that if I don’t have a Marklin CS (CS2 or CS3) I will not have access to the mfx protocol.Crying


Using the track box should give you access to the mfx protocol - but I don't know how much of the mfx processing is done in the track box and how much is in the ms2. I suspect the library of locos is maintained in the ms2, so if you don't have that connected then you will probably have problems.
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Offline Kiko  
#10 Posted : 22 March 2021 15:36:35(UTC)
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Kiko

Canada   
Joined: 13/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 56
Location: Ottawa, ON
Originally Posted by: Puttputtmaru Go to Quoted Post


Your point ( 1) is also important to me. So am I to understand that if I don’t have a Marklin CS (CS2 or CS3) I will not have access to the mfx protocol.


Hello,

Just to clarify one point -- You are not forced to use the Marklin CS family of controllers. For example, the ESU ECoS does recognize multi-protocol decoders. I personally use the ECoS and run Marklin MM, mfx, mfx+, ESU Lokpilots and Loksound decoders. The ECoS can handle all of them at the same time. Some of my locos run under DCC, others under Marklin, some use 14 steps (the old 6090 digital decoders), some use 28 steps. As far as I know, the ECoS can't take advantage of the extra capabilities of the mfx+, i.e., the Word of Operations features. However, the mfx and mfx+ only differ in that respect. If World of Operations is an important play factor for you, then you will have no choice but to use a Marklin controller.

I hope this adds some value and does not muddy the waters even further.

Cheers,
Andry

Andry
// Marklin HO K track; ECoS; TrainController Gold; Marklin & ESU decoders; Arduino controlled Switches, Semaphores & Accessories (DCC); Win 11 //
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Offline marklinist5999  
#11 Posted : 22 March 2021 17:24:18(UTC)
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marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,136
Location: Michigan, Troy
Very true, but does the mfx+ world of operation feature work with Ecos? You must also manually enter some locomotives, also true with Roco dcc decoder fitted models om the CS3.
The Zimo decoders are/were using Railcom II for sound. The CS3 does not support railcom.
I am also wondering if the Roco Z21 cab driver function can work on a CS3.
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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#12 Posted : 22 March 2021 17:29:54(UTC)
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Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 398
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Martti Mäntylä Go to Quoted Post

In any case, if one uses Rocrail to run trains, I personally find that a full-blown standalone command station is an overkill.

I agree in general, however IMHO there could be at least two reasons:

(1) Access to Mfx protocol: Myself, I only run engines on DCC and MM protocols, so this feature is not a valid argument for me.

As kiwiAlan said, the track box handles the Mfx protocol matters. Rocrail can handle Mfx registration.
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post

(2) Booster control: I have two 60175 boosters connected via a terminal to the CS2, and I’m impressed by the operational quality and overview this setup provides. No more ”sparks” when trains move between booster sections. I need to add, my only benchmark is the old 6021 booster management, I have no experience from other modern boosters.

I use two Märklin 6604 Delta Controls with 6647 transformers as boosters, and I don't get sparks either. Of course, they are not visible to Rocrail's booster management functions. CAN Digital offers a more advanced booster unit, but I preferred the low-fi approach (I had one 6604 handy, and bought the second for a pittance).

So a command station is not absolutely necessary for these two points, although of course it can simplify the management of the setup.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 22 March 2021 17:31:59(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,266
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Very true, but does the mfx+ world of operation feature work with Ecos?
No, of course not.

Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
The Zimo decoders are/were using Railcom II for sound.
The ECoS supports RailCom and RailCom+, so DCC locos can register automatically with all their icons. Not supported by CS 2 or CS 3.

Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I am also wondering if the Roco Z21 cab driver function can work on a CS3.
The Z21 app only works with the Z21. But it works with any loco.
The CS3 cab drive also works with any loco and is no longer limited to mfx+.

If I needed a new controller these days, I probably would order an ECoS II. I don't give a damn about mfx+ or any cab control mode.
I always say get your hands on the controller before making a purchase decision. My fingers are way too thick for the touch screen of the CS3. How often did I move a windows when I tried to stop a train. Severe accidents can be the result.
I particularly like the Multi-Mode of the ECoS and the CS1R.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Kiko  
#14 Posted : 22 March 2021 17:37:01(UTC)
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Kiko

Canada   
Joined: 13/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 56
Location: Ottawa, ON
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Very true, but does the mfx+ world of operation feature work with Ecos? You must also manually enter some locomotives, also true with Roco dcc decoder fitted models om the CS3.
The Zimo decoders are/were using Railcom II for sound. The CS3 does not support railcom.
I am also wondering if the Roco Z21 cab driver function can work on a CS3.


As I stated previously, unfortunately, the Marklin proprietary WoO protocol can't be accessed by other controllers. However, all other mfx features are supported by ECoS. As far as I understand, the "+" only means that the protocol supports WoO -- all other features are exactly the same as in a regular mfx decoder. Hence, if WoO is important to you, then your only choice is to go with a Marklin controller.

Another note regarding Railcom -- the ECoS supports Railcom as well as Railcom Plus. This is basically a capability for locomotives running under DCC to "self-register" -- similar to mfx.

Andry
// Marklin HO K track; ECoS; TrainController Gold; Marklin & ESU decoders; Arduino controlled Switches, Semaphores & Accessories (DCC); Win 11 //
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#15 Posted : 22 March 2021 19:04:40(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,107
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Kiko Go to Quoted Post
Hence, if WoO is important to you, then your only choice is to go with a Marklin controller.


Not only that, but for WoO the controller HAS to be a cs2 or cs3. WoO is NOT a feature that works with ms2 and trackbox.
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