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sjlauritsen		#1 Posted : 06 September 2009 21:28:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Hey guys. I have made a comparison sheet comparing the different digital command stations. This is the first draft. Feel free to comment on it. http://www.trixfan.com/comparison.htm If you have any corrections, bring them on as well. The list currently only contains the command stations currently available (or soon available). If you would like to, I can expand the list to contain other command stations as well. Please specify your wishes. Kind regards Søren
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H0		#2 Posted : 06 September 2009 22:07:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,268 Location: DE-NW		Hi, Søren! Nice list. A few comment ... "Fahrstufen DCC": either it's "14, 28, 126" or it's "16, 30, 128" (depends on how you count). "Can program MM/MFX": should be "X/-" for Viessmann and IB, "X/X" for ECoS and CS1 reloaded. Maybe "X/(X)" for CS2 ... "Functions pr. locomotive": AFAIK it's only 9 for pre-2.0 IB, but about 32768 for IB 2.0 (AFAIK vapourware). "Magnet Accessories Motorola": IB: yes. "Fahrstufen Motorola": ECoS, CS1: 14, 27, 28 "Screen resolution": CS1: 320x240 (ECoS #50000 also 320x240), both monochrome; ECoS #50200 has 800x480 and colour "Connect to PC": CS1, ECoS: Ethernet "DCC PoM: IB: yes "Viessmann Commander": does it have mfx?
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Darren W		#3 Posted : 06 September 2009 22:42:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/01/2007(UTC) Posts: 643 Location: Alberta		Very helpful for a novice such as myself. I think I will keep the ESU Ecos under consideration. Thanks Darren
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sjlauritsen		#4 Posted : 06 September 2009 22:57:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by H0 <br />Hi, Søren! "Fahrstufen DCC": either it's "14, 28, 126" or it's "16, 30, 128" (depends on how you count). Thank you for your comments. Of course you are right about the "fahrstufen" (what is it called in English anyway?). I have corrected the numbers. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: "Can program MM/MFX": should be "X/-" for Viessmann and IB, "X/X" for ECoS and CS1 reloaded. Maybe "X/(X)" for CS2 ... I have changed the table so MFX and MM is not considered "the same". The "old" ECoS, the CS1 and the 60213 is currently not in the table as they are no longer in production. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: "Functions pr. locomotive": AFAIK it's only 9 for pre-2.0 IB, but about 32768 for IB 2.0 (AFAIK vapourware). By vaporware, do you mean the IB 2 will never see daylight? In that case I will not put it in the list. The list does not take the IB Basic into account, only the IB IR. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: "Fahrstufen Motorola": ECoS, CS1: 14, 27, 28 What about the CS2? Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: "Screen resolution": CS1: 320x240 (ECoS #50000 also 320x240), both monochrome; ECoS #50200 has 800x480 and colour "Connect to PC": CS1, ECoS: Ethernet "DCC PoM: IB: yes Corrected. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: "Viessmann Commander": does it have mfx? According to the technical details the Commander can handle "both old and new motorola". I assumed they meant MFX. If not I will remove the "X". Kind regards Søren
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steventrain		#5 Posted : 06 September 2009 23:06:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,609 Location: United Kingdom		Thanks for the site.
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Goofy		#6 Posted : 06 September 2009 23:29:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Nice work! But Lenz has now V 3.6 and there is 29 function at handreglage LH100!!! [:p] And can also programming 1024 difference CV adress. This is what Lenz have too...14,27,28 and 128 speedstep.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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H0		#7 Posted : 07 September 2009 00:19:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,268 Location: DE-NW		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sjlauritsen <br />According to the technical details the Commander can handle "both old and new motorola". I assumed they meant MFX. If not I will remove the "X". There is Motorola Old (6080/6090 decoder, 1 function) and Motorola New (6090x decoder, 5 functions) - Lutz mentioned that. mfx is not motorola (but all mfx decoders also support motorola for backward compatibility).
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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sjlauritsen		#8 Posted : 07 September 2009 00:37:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Thank you for clarifying the things about Motorola. Should I add an "MM (1 function)" and "MM (5 functions)" row to the sheet? Or does it not matter? I have updated the Viessmann Commander and the Lenz with your changes. Also I would like if some of you Germans could tell me how I should understand the Lenz Update page (http://www.digital-plus.de/digitalplus/service_update.php) what does it say about the LiUSB interface and the software version? Does it mean that I can update the firmware using my PC from version 3.6 and afterwards? Or do I still have to send the whole thing to Lenz (which is rather old-school in these days) Kind regards Søren
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mmervine		#9 Posted : 07 September 2009 01:14:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,884 Location: Keene, NH		Nice work Søren, thanks for posting this information. I thought the internal booster in the new CS2 would be bigger.
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Goofy		#10 Posted : 07 September 2009 01:34:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sjlauritsen Also I would like if some of you Germans could tell me how I should understand the Lenz Update page (http://www.digital-plus.de/digitalplus/service_update.php) what does it say about the LiUSB interface and the software version? Does it mean that I can update the firmware using my PC from version 3.6 and afterwards? Or do I still have to send the whole thing to Lenz (which is rather old-school in these days) Kind regards Søren Hey...! If you have still old Lenz system V 3.0 or 3.5 you must send system back to rechange chips inside of centralstation and handreglage too. It´s not the same circuitboard inside of handreglage like of today with V 3.6! No you cannot using Lenz USB,by upgrade via PC to V 3.6! You must using Lenz new system V 3.6,if you want control the latest functions. With USB it´s only for function as cabcontrol at screen of PC and to program decoder too via screen at PC. P.S. It says,that Lenz shall upgrade USB so you can possible handle with PC screen as Centralstation like Marklins or and ESU. But this is just an speculation...if not less as new 2010.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Bigdaddynz		#11 Posted : 07 September 2009 01:41:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		Great list, thanks Søren. I think the 2 Motorola protocols are sometimes referred to as Motorola 1 and Motorola 2. And I guess the comments for the Ecos will apply equally to the CS1 Reloaded. Price wise, the 60214 CS2 seems to be widely available for 599 EUR.
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H0		#12 Posted : 07 September 2009 02:24:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,268 Location: DE-NW		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sjlauritsen <br />Thank you for clarifying the things about Motorola. Should I add an "MM (1 function)" and "MM (5 functions)" row to the sheet? Or does it not matter? All stations being sold today support both. But some only support 14 speed steps (e. g. IB), while other also support 27/28 speed steps. BTW: MM1 or Motorola old also supports function decoders - the MS doesn't support those IIRC. But I think all stations on your list support them, so it has no value to add that.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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sjlauritsen		#13 Posted : 07 September 2009 08:42:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by H0 <br />But some only support 14 speed steps (e. g. IB), while other also support 27/28 speed steps. Does the CS2 support 27/28 speed steps? Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: BTW: MM1 or Motorola old also supports function decoders - the MS doesn't support those IIRC. But I think all stations on your list support them, so it has no value to add that. I think I will add the mobile station to the list along with the older stations. So a row with function decoders will be a great idea. Kind regards Søren
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sjlauritsen		#14 Posted : 07 September 2009 09:17:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Hey all. I have now updated the sheet with CS (60212), CS (60213) and the Mobile Station. Please read and comment. Thanks in advance. http://www.trixfan.com/comparison.htm Kind regards Søren
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Goofy		#15 Posted : 07 September 2009 11:24:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Lenz have also pendelzug (ABC) and track routes too! They have also too Interface as PC,so you can have an trackdiagram too on the PC screen or like an cabcontrol etc...! And maxloaded programmingtrack is 1,0 A.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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sjlauritsen		#16 Posted : 07 September 2009 14:09:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br />Lenz have also pendelzug (ABC) and track routes too! I know that, but they are not built-in. You will have to buy additional hardware to make it work. That is why it is not in the list. This is a comparison of the digital command stations _as is_, not the possibilities with the systems, since every system theoretically can be expanded to support everything. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: They have also too Interface as PC,so you can have an trackdiagram too on the PC screen or like an cabcontrol etc...! It is already in the list. But I do not know whether or not to keep it there, since customers are required to buy additional hardware to make it work. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: And maxloaded programmingtrack is 1,0 A. Thank you I will add that. Kind regards Søren
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Goofy		#17 Posted : 07 September 2009 17:32:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sjlauritsen <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br />Lenz have also pendelzug (ABC) and track routes too! I know that, but they are not built-in. You will have to buy additional hardware to make it work. That is why it is not in the list. This is a comparison of the digital command stations _as is_, not the possibilities with the systems, since every system theoretically can be expanded to support everything. What´s difference...? Pendelzug with BM1,BM2 and BM3 are accessories and shall placement as X at yours diagram. Because you have done like USB with X and yet it´s an accessories!
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Goofy		#18 Posted : 07 September 2009 17:43:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Another more to change: 1.ESU Ecos 50200 the new one don´t support mfx,but instead M4. 2.Cool design is not funny,by only give either to CS2 60214...!!! 3.If you want cool design anyway,Ecos new 50200 wins over Marklins 60214! 4.Ecos has 128 speedstep too.(DCC) 5.Roco multimaus has 20 functions. 5.Roco multimaus has 128 speedstep too.(DCC)
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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sjlauritsen		#19 Posted : 07 September 2009 18:17:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br />What´s difference...? Pendelzug with BM1,BM2 and BM3 are accessories and shall placement as X at yours diagram. Because you have done like USB with X and yet it´s an accessories! Which is why I wrote that I might pull the USB support from the diagram. I guess you did not read that. Kind regards Søren
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sjlauritsen		#20 Posted : 07 September 2009 18:19:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br />Another more to change: 1.ESU Ecos 50200 the new one don´t support mfx,but instead M4. Would anyone other than Goofy care to explain this? Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: 2.Cool design is not funny,by only give either to CS2 60214...!!! 3.If you want cool design anyway,Ecos new 50200 wins over Marklins 60214! Obviously you do not know how to take a joke. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: 4.Ecos has 128 speedstep too.(DCC) 5.Roco multimaus has 20 functions. 5.Roco multimaus has 128 speedstep too.(DCC) I will check these facts later. Kind regards Søren
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Goofy		#21 Posted : 07 September 2009 18:48:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sjlauritsen <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br />What´s difference...? Pendelzug with BM1,BM2 and BM3 are accessories and shall placement as X at yours diagram. Because you have done like USB with X and yet it´s an accessories! Which is why I wrote that I might pull the USB support from the diagram. I guess you did not read that. Kind regards Søren Where did you wrote that...?
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Goofy		#22 Posted : 07 September 2009 18:53:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sjlauritsen <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br />Another more to change: 1.ESU Ecos 50200 the new one don´t support mfx,but instead M4. Would anyone other than Goofy care to explain this? Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: 2.Cool design is not funny,by only give either to CS2 60214...!!! 3.If you want cool design anyway,Ecos new 50200 wins over Marklins 60214! Obviously you do not know how to take a joke. Ohhh...was that an joke...??? ESU Ecos 50200 cannot support mfx. Marklins mfx is an trademark and protecting as patent too from Marklin. So ESU did created an own locodecoder M4 to repeat back to CentralStation,just like Marklins own mfx decoder. Did you get it...?
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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sjlauritsen		#23 Posted : 07 September 2009 19:12:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br /> So ESU did created an own locodecoder M4 to repeat back to CentralStation,just like Marklins own mfx decoder. Well... that would mean that it is MFX compatible. To keep it simple to understand I have named the whole thing MFX. I will not start to create two different meanings of the same thing. It would not make any sense. Kind regards Søren
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sjlauritsen		#24 Posted : 07 September 2009 19:13:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br /> Where did you wrote that...? Here: Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy They have also too Interface as PC,so you can have an trackdiagram too on the PC screen or like an cabcontrol etc...! Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: It is already in the list. But I do not know whether or not to keep it there, since customers are required to buy additional hardware to make it work. Kind regards Søren
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mmervine		#25 Posted : 07 September 2009 19:15:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,884 Location: Keene, NH		'MFX' is a Marklin trademark. The ESU 'M4' protocol is exactly the same. Having an ECOS with 3.0.0, I can say it works very well!
		Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
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Goofy		#26 Posted : 07 September 2009 19:21:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mmervine <br />'MFX' is a Marklin trademark. The ESU 'M4' protocol is exactly the same. Having an ECOS with 3.0.0, I can say it works very well! So you can using Marklins locomotivs with mfx decoder on the Ecos 50200 and it repeats back to centralstation...? Then in case...i don´t need to buy Marklins CS2 60214,when Ecos are cheaper than Marklins...!!! And besides,Ecos has transformer too at 90 watts!
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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mmervine		#27 Posted : 07 September 2009 19:27:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,884 Location: Keene, NH		Goofy...correct, there is no problem to use 'MFX' loks with the ECOS with 3.0.0 or higher firmware.
		Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
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Goofy		#28 Posted : 07 September 2009 19:32:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mmervine <br />Goofy...correct, there is no problem to use 'MFX' loks with the ECOS with 3.0.0 or higher firmware. So Marklins own locomotivs with own mfx decoder can repeat back to Ecos centralstation 50200...? 100 % guarantee...??? Then in case...i wonder what Marklin company will say about that...? What about other manefacture such like Uhlenbrock,Viessmann or and ZIMO...? Will they also too put mfx protocool inside of theirs own digital system...???
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Goofy		#29 Posted : 07 September 2009 19:39:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sjlauritsen <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br /> So ESU did created an own locodecoder M4 to repeat back to CentralStation,just like Marklins own mfx decoder. Well... that would mean that it is MFX compatible. To keep it simple to understand I have named the whole thing MFX. I will not start to create two different meanings of the same thing. It would not make any sense. Kind regards Søren Actuelly i mean Ecos centralstation 50200. Not Marklins CS2 60214...
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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sjlauritsen		#30 Posted : 07 September 2009 19:45:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		The list is now updated with more info on the Mobile Station, Roco MultiMouse and Lenz Digital Plus. Regarding the Mobile Station can anyone comfirm that it uses the can protocol? Does anyone have the output specs from the CS1? I have changed the PC interface to "built-in pc interface" and removed the USB support from the Lenz Digital Plus system. To be fair to the Lenz and other systems, I will figure out a way to signal when something can be accomplished trough add-on hardware. I am currently working on Digitrax support. http://www.trixfan.com/comparison.htm Kind regards Søren
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H0		#31 Posted : 07 September 2009 19:49:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,268 Location: DE-NW		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sjlauritsen <br />Does anyone have the output specs from the CS1? Main track: [2.8 A (up to 2.0.4),] 4.0 A (3.0.0 and higher) 90 VA powersupply incl. with Upgrade to 3.0.x Edit: you only include the updated version in the list, so forget 2.8 A ...) MM speed steps: 14, 27, 28 Both DCC and mfx support 126 real speed steps (manufacturers normally write 128, but this includes two pseudo speed steps). The 14 speed steps always exclude the two pseudo speed steps. To get it uniquely, I'd write 126 instead of 128 everywhere (this is a fact sheet, not a manufacturer advertising sheet anyway). Lenz and Roco only have 126 real speed steps (I bet).
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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sjlauritsen		#32 Posted : 07 September 2009 20:34:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by H0 <br /> MM speed steps: 14, 27, 28 Updated for 60212, 60213 and 60214 Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Both DCC and mfx support 126 real speed steps (manufacturers normally write 128, but this includes two pseudo speed steps). The 14 speed steps always exclude the two pseudo speed steps. To get it uniquely, I'd write 126 instead of 128 everywhere (this is a fact sheet, not a manufacturer advertising sheet anyway). Lenz and Roco only have 126 real speed steps (I bet). A fact sheet it is. I have corrected the speed steps. Kind regards Søren
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GSRR		#33 Posted : 07 September 2009 20:50:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC) Posts: 1,339 Location: USA		Søren, many thanks for the list. Will you be making this into a downloadable file at all? Regards, Thomas
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Goofy		#34 Posted : 07 September 2009 21:03:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Very impressive list now,Sören! It´s getting better and better...
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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sjlauritsen		#35 Posted : 08 September 2009 19:32:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by GSRR <br /> many thanks for the list. Will you be making this into a downloadable file at all? Hey Thomas! Thanks. When the review is done, I will make it available for download as both PDF and Excel from the Trixfan website. Kind regards Søren
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Goofy		#36 Posted : 08 September 2009 21:07:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Ecos 50200 and CS2 60214 has also 128 speedsteeps too at Marklin support.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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jeehring		#37 Posted : 08 September 2009 21:50:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sjlauritsen <br />Hey guys. I have made a comparison sheet comparing the different digital command stations. This is the first draft. Feel free to comment on it. http://www.trixfan.com/comparison.htm If you have any corrections, bring them on as well. The list currently only contains the command stations currently available (or soon available). If you would like to, I can expand the list to contain other command stations as well. Please specify your wishes. Kind regards Søren I'm not fond of this kind of comparison , nothing about some of the most important criteria: ergonomics and user friendliness of software + whole item . ...because it cannot be estimated in few words.
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sjlauritsen		#38 Posted : 09 September 2009 00:00:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring <br /> I'm not fond of this kind of comparison , nothing about some of the most important criteria: ergonomics and user friendliness of software + whole item . ...because it cannot be estimated in few words. Hey Jeehring. The purpose of the list is to do a technical comparison. I do not take the user friendliness into account because it is a very individual matter. Some like it nerdy and some like it easy. I guess I am one of those who like it nerdy, so I have a Lenz system. . A friend of mine like the coolness, so he owns a CS2. Kind regards Søren
		Søren from Denmark Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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H0		#39 Posted : 09 September 2009 00:37:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,268 Location: DE-NW		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br />Ecos 50200 and CS2 60214 has also 128 speedsteeps too at Marklin support. I don't know any controller that has more than 126 speed steps. DCC has 126 speed steps, mfx has 126 speed steps.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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dntower85		#40 Posted : 09 September 2009 00:42:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,218 Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA		Jeehring, It does show that the CS2 has Mouse and Keyboard so that is a big ergonomics and user friendly plus to some.
		DT Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
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Bigdaddynz		#41 Posted : 09 September 2009 01:13:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mmervine <br />Goofy...correct, there is no problem to use 'MFX' loks with the ECOS with 3.0.0 or higher firmware. So Marklins own locomotivs with own mfx decoder can repeat back to Ecos centralstation 50200...? 100 % guarantee...??? Then in case...i wonder what Marklin company will say about that...? What about other manefacture such like Uhlenbrock,Viessmann or and ZIMO...? Will they also too put mfx protocool inside of theirs own digital system...??? Goofy, the CS1 with the v3.0 Upgrade makes the CS1 equivalent to the current Ecos - both can control and register mfx locomotives with full features available. If reports that the new ESU 50200 will be similar to the existing Ecos, but with a colour screen, are correct, then it too will be able to control and register mfx locomotives. Whether the other manufacturers will include mfx (m4) in their command stations will depend on whether they can negotiate rights to mfx.
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clapcott		#42 Posted : 11 September 2009 00:43:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Hi Søren, Appreciate the work. Where is the column for the 6021 ? Mobile Station: - Are you able to add the Product code 60652 - Not aware that it can (directly) control Accessories - * maybe via Loconet adapter or PC but that is out of scope - Can program mFX user functions (Volume, Acc) - I question your meaning of 14 speed steps ? Märklin Digital Support - maybe a separate line for Motorola Old and Motorola New - number of addresses (MM) - maybe a seperate line for Locomotives v Accessories - * Mobile Station will only manually dial up 80 loco addresses - * Central Stations can address 320 accessory addresses - Please qualify "Can Program MM" with "- non DIP switch type" (also sometimes called FX) Possible other general categories and subcategories - Supports consisting - * which methods - under "Built-in Track routes" - * "selectively disable" (v deprogram - i.e. CS1) - under "Built-in Pendelzug" - * type "Global" (i.e. CS1) , Loco Specific (i.e. CS2) - External Mouse Keyboard - * instead of an "X" state type - e.g. USB - Power supply included (also referred to as Transformer) - * maybe a sub-line "recommended PS" (e.g. 6052 - * also a reference to boosters ? type of connection ? - Interactive track plan - * 6021 has the switchboard - Update firmware - * via PC (CS1 yes CS2 no) - * via USB Memory device(CS2) - * via internet (CS2) - How about a line for "backup" - Touch Screen - * Stylus included ? - * User configurable (uploadable) icons - Feedback protocol - * ! LISSY is not a protocol - it is a utility device that utilises LocoNet - Locomotive controls (Throttles? v Tactile buttons for functions) - * As well as #, also type - Throttles v Function buttons - * * CS2 can use either touch or tactile for speed , CS1 only tactile - Multiple CUs/Additional Throttles - Slaves, Remote, Distance - Wireless capability - * 6021 has 6070
		Peter
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Webmaster		#43 Posted : 11 September 2009 00:55:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,161		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by H0 But some only support 14 speed steps (e. g. IB), while other also support 27/28 speed steps. Tom, unfortunately I think you are wrong here, even the old IB "supports" 27 speed steps with MM2 decoders... What I mean is that you can set it to 27 speed steps, but the forward sequence is 14 steps and the backward sequence are steps in between 2 forward steps... So if you increase one notch forward and then one notch backward on the knob, you will get an intermediate speed setting between the 2 forward steps, which effectively is 27 steps...
		Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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H0		#44 Posted : 11 September 2009 02:16:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,268 Location: DE-NW		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Webmaster <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by H0 But some only support 14 speed steps (e. g. IB), while other also support 27/28 speed steps. Tom, unfortunately I think you are wrong here, even the old IB "supports" 27 speed steps with MM2 decoders... What I mean is that you can set it to 27 speed steps, but the forward sequence is 14 steps and the backward sequence are steps in between 2 forward steps... So if you increase one notch forward and then one notch backward on the knob, you will get an intermediate speed setting between the 2 forward steps, which effectively is 27 steps... The 60901 decoder has 27 speed steps while the protocol has only 14, so you can use 27 speed steps with any controller. While the scale on the CS1 goes from 0 to 27, the scale on the IB only goes from 0 to 14. Therefor the IB doesn't support 27 speed steps with MM protocol (but still you can use them if you know how they work). Support: no "Support": yes (because the decoder supports it, but not the controller (neither IB nor CU 6021 nor MS)) IB-Support for 27 speed steps comes with the 2.0 update which will be delivered by the end of 2008, hm, probably by end of 2008 (thass wot 'em guys told me on the IMA 2008 at Cologne). 28 speed steps need a modified protocol (neither IB nor CU 6021 nor MS have it).
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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H0		#45 Posted : 11 September 2009 02:19:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,268 Location: DE-NW		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by clapcott <br />- Update firmware - * via PC (CS1 yes CS2 no) - * via USB (CS1) - * via internet (CS1) Should that be: - * via USB (CS2) - * via internet (CS2) CS1 has no USB, Updates via PC only.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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clapcott		#46 Posted : 11 September 2009 09:42:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,435 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by H0 <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by clapcott <br />- Update firmware - * via PC (CS1 yes CS2 no) - * via USB (CS1) - * via internet (CS1) Should that be: - * via USB (CS2) - * via internet (CS2) CS1 has no USB, Updates via PC only. Thanks - original corrected
		Peter
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sjlauritsen		#47 Posted : 11 September 2009 10:35:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by clapcott <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by H0 <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by clapcott <br />- Update firmware - * via PC (CS1 yes CS2 no) - * via USB (CS1) - * via internet (CS1) Should that be: - * via USB (CS2) - * via internet (CS2) CS1 has no USB, Updates via PC only. Thanks - original corrected Hey guys. I am trying to keep things simple. "Update via PC" covers this question: Can I the device myself without having to send it to my dealer or the factory. Usually this is done by PC. How it is done (usb, network, internet) is not relevant to the question. If the device has a USB and/or network interface, the users should be able to do the math themselves. Kind regards Søren
		Søren from Denmark Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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efel		#48 Posted : 11 September 2009 18:12:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC) Posts: 800		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by H0 IB-Support for 27 speed steps comes with the 2.0 update Does that mean that to reach the 13 "intermediate" speeds, the controller will send successively 1 step forward followed immediately by one step backward ? Fred
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Goofy		#49 Posted : 11 September 2009 19:12:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,022		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by H0 <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Webmaster <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by H0 But some only support 14 speed steps (e. g. IB), while other also support 27/28 speed steps. Tom, unfortunately I think you are wrong here, even the old IB "supports" 27 speed steps with MM2 decoders... What I mean is that you can set it to 27 speed steps, but the forward sequence is 14 steps and the backward sequence are steps in between 2 forward steps... So if you increase one notch forward and then one notch backward on the knob, you will get an intermediate speed setting between the 2 forward steps, which effectively is 27 steps... The 60901 decoder has 27 speed steps while the protocol has only 14, so you can use 27 speed steps with any controller. While the scale on the CS1 goes from 0 to 27, the scale on the IB only goes from 0 to 14. Therefor the IB doesn't support 27 speed steps with MM protocol (but still you can use them if you know how they work). Support: no "Support": yes (because the decoder supports it, but not the controller (neither IB nor CU 6021 nor MS)) IB-Support for 27 speed steps comes with the 2.0 update which will be delivered by the end of 2008, hm, probably by end of 2008 (thass wot 'em guys told me on the IMA 2008 at Cologne). 28 speed steps need a modified protocol (neither IB nor CU 6021 nor MS have it). Correct! What you shall do to understand about speedlimit,is to counting speedsteps instead. Like this... 0-14-0 0-27-0 0-128-0 Speed up...speed down Correct...?
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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H0		#50 Posted : 11 September 2009 19:47:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,268 Location: DE-NW		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy <br />What you shall do to understand about speedlimit,is to counting speedsteps instead. Like this... 0-14-0 0-27-0 0-128-0 Speed up...speed down Correct...? 0-14-0 0-27-0 0-28-0 0-126-0 Show me a controller that goes beyond 126 ...
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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