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Offline morsing  
#1 Posted : 05 February 2019 12:12:46(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 392
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

Hi,

I can't justify a CS2/3 - sadly. So looking at z21 but not quite sure what I need.

- Want to be able to computer control
- Want handset(s) for simultaneous manual control

So,

- Am I correct that Multimaus is a handset for z21?
- Is it wireless? Or is that only Z21?
- Can I connect a computer to z21?
- I does it do MFX?

Thanks, no clear guidance found anywhere so far.
Offline mbarreto  
#2 Posted : 05 February 2019 13:18:55(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post

Hi,

I can't justify a CS2/3 - sadly. So looking at z21 but not quite sure what I need.

- Want to be able to computer control
- Want handset(s) for simultaneous manual control

So,

- Am I correct that Multimaus is a handset for z21?
- Is it wireless? Or is that only Z21?
- Can I connect a computer to z21?
- I does it do MFX?

Thanks, no clear guidance found anywhere so far.


Roco information on Z21: https://www.roco.cc/en/p...0-006001-0/products.html

Here it is not the best place to ask about Z21, and as such it is beter you think in a CS or Ecos ;) as they both have mfx.
Z21 is only DCC and MM, no mfx and much less mfx+. Z21 only has Railcom in opposition to Ecos that also have Railcom+

As you can read in the pages with links in the page I stated above, there are 2 Lokmaus, one wireless and one wired.
In youtube you can find sevral videos with rocrail and z21.

I don't know if the Viessman controller has mfx, but I think not.





Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline morsing  
#3 Posted : 05 February 2019 14:23:02(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 392
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post


Roco information on Z21: https://www.roco.cc/en/p...0-006001-0/products.html

Here it is not the best place to ask about Z21, and as such it is beter you think in a CS or Ecos ;) as they both have mfx.
Z21 is only DCC and MM, no mfx and much less mfx+. Z21 only has Railcom in opposition to Ecos that also have Railcom+

As you can read in the pages with links in the page I stated above, there are 2 Lokmaus, one wireless and one wired.
In youtube you can find sevral videos with rocrail and z21.

I don't know if the Viessman controller has mfx, but I think not.



Thanks, but you linked to the Z21, not the z21. And the similar names makes it very difficult to Google or search on Youtube, and even Roco's website is confusing...

I think, from Roco's website, only Z21 can use wireless controllers.

Just looked up the Ecos and it's comparable in price to the CS.
Offline mbarreto  
#4 Posted : 05 February 2019 14:36:18(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 854
Probably you are refering to the z21 Start...:
https://www.z21.eu/en/products/z21start

Not much information indeed, but that is a good hint to choose something different ;)

Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline morsing  
#5 Posted : 05 February 2019 14:38:34(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 392
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
Probably you are refering to the z21 Start...:
https://www.z21.eu/en/products/z21start

Not much information indeed, but that is a good hint to choose something different ;)



Which I can't afford... So, I'll keep running my trains with my mobile stations then.
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 05 February 2019 14:57:47(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,498
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
I think, from Roco's website, only Z21 can use wireless controllers.
No.
They have three products:
"z21 start" requires the WLAN package 10814 to use WLAN controllers (WLANMAUS or smartphone with app).
"z21" supports WLAN out of the box.
"Z21" ditto.

The English website lacks many pieces of information you can find on the German pages.

Their product naming scheme is neither "google-friendly" nor "user-friendly".
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#7 Posted : 05 February 2019 15:31:35(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 715
Location: Täby
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: morsing Go to Quoted Post
I think, from Roco's website, only Z21 can use wireless controllers.
No.
They have three products:
"z21 start" requires the WLAN package 10814 to use WLAN controllers (WLANMAUS or smartphone with app).
"z21" supports WLAN out of the box.
"Z21" ditto.

The English website lacks many pieces of information you can find on the German pages.

Their product naming scheme is neither "google-friendly" nor "user-friendly".


I beleive they only sell the white "z21 start" and the black "Z21" now. If you buy the z21 start you have to calculate at least with the price for WLAN package, and probably a LokMaus as well. I wouldn´t be comfortable to have my smartphone as the only possible controller...

The black Z21 has become very popular among 2-rail users, because it supports many different bus connections to other devices. But for 3-rail users it has one big disadvantage - no mfx support. This means you will have to run your mfx locos with DCC (if the decoder has DCC inside) or if it is an older mfx decoder with MM protocol (4+1 functions, 28 speedsteps).

If you are on a tight budget but still want to control your locos by computer, I would suggest you take a look at "CC-Schnitte" that costs 139€ and connects to your computer + one of the trackbox connectors for Mobile Station. So you can use a Mobile Station for manual control and CC-Schnitte as a computer interface. It can also be used without the Mobile Station, but then you still need a track box.

K-G / H0 and Z model train user
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kgsjoqvist
Offline ChrisWV10  
#8 Posted : 05 February 2019 21:14:57(UTC)
ChrisWV10

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: Wolverhampton, UK
The black Z21 (capital Z) has separate programming track output, adjustable voltage, loconet connector and sniffer port. It’s supplied with a wireless router and the network connection is unlocked for connection to the supplied router. You can use your own, but I’d recommend using the supplied one as it’s all preconfigured. Using your own WiFi is only for the very network savvy.

The white z21 (small z) has no separate programming track, no adjustable voltage, no loconet and no sniffer port. It usually is supplied with a wired multimaus and the network port is locked in software. You can buy the unlock code (see fleischmann website) To use your own router or buy the router with the unlock code.

Both accept wired Multimaus, 2 xbus ports on the front of the white.

For the wireless multimaus you need a wireless setup either the black Z21 package or buy the separate router for a white z21 starter.

The app is a free download from Apple or Android App Store. It’s not available on Amazon for Fire tablets.

C. :)
Offline morsing  
#9 Posted : 07 February 2019 16:07:32(UTC)
morsing

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 392
Location: Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire

Thanks,

Some things to consider. CC-schnitte does look like a good option, but I have been unable to find a price or a place to buy it.

Offline costing  
#10 Posted : 08 February 2019 00:08:58(UTC)
costing

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 78
Location: Geneve, Geneva
Since you are willing to jump off the mfx wagon I suggest JMRI on Raspberry Pi and DCC++. The whole package will set you back between 30 and 50 ($, EUR, whatever), depending on the RPi model you get.

WiFi included for free. As many throttles as mobile devices you have around. Separate programming track. Graphical interface as large as your TV. Remote desktop connection if you don't have/want to connect to the TV.

If you want to test it out just run JMRI on your computer with the DCC++ Arduino on USB. You can experiment with all the above for a few bucks only and if you are not happy with the solution move along to any of the above brands.

Cheers,

.costin
JMRI on RPi & DCC++ / C-track / Marklin (SBB Re 4/4 II, Ee 3/3, DB BR 24, BR 233), Roco (DB BR 103, BR 215, CFR 040-EC-001), ESU engineering (DB 265 MRCE) / Christmas car collector
Offline costing  
#11 Posted : 08 February 2019 08:17:21(UTC)
costing

Switzerland   
Joined: 20/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 78
Location: Geneve, Geneva
And to illustrate the programming and control panels of JMRI here is a screenshot of it with one of the locos. I can't imagine programming CVs without it, especially in complex decoders like ESU's.

Screenshot_20190208_081101.png

Cheers,

.costin
JMRI on RPi & DCC++ / C-track / Marklin (SBB Re 4/4 II, Ee 3/3, DB BR 24, BR 233), Roco (DB BR 103, BR 215, CFR 040-EC-001), ESU engineering (DB 265 MRCE) / Christmas car collector
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