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Offline Alberto Pedrini  
#1 Posted : 15 January 2008 01:26:55(UTC)
Alberto Pedrini

Italy   
Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,448
Location: Italy
Does Somebody have any news about the starting upgrade of the locos with the Csinus compact?
Alberto

Marklinfan Club Italia
www.marklinfan.net
Offline laalves  
#2 Posted : 15 January 2008 01:36:57(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
When I sent my VT08.5 and HWZ to Märklin last October, they said it would be available later in the year (2007?)
Offline svgeorgiad  
#3 Posted : 15 January 2008 15:42:30(UTC)
svgeorgiad

Greece   
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 614
Location: Athens,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by almagik
<br />Does Somebody have any news about the starting upgrade of the locos with the Csinus compact?



The 39802 and 39801 are still offered with Compact C-sinus. Does anybody know if these models are operating well or do they have the same problems like all C-sinus motorized locs?
Would it be better for somebody who is eager to buy to wait until these locs are also launched from M* with SDS or is this just a dream that will not come true by M*?
Symeon Georgiadis
Offline Guus  
#4 Posted : 15 January 2008 16:40:13(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hi Symeon,

I have bought the 39801 recently and it drives smoothly just like my 39420 Re 4/4I,which also has the previous version of the small C-sine motor.
Although I have no complaints about the former small C-sine there is a hardly noticeable difference in driving characteristics between the small C-sine motor and the newer SDS version.
The new SDS is absolutely smooth at every speed setting,while you may notice a very slight hesitation with the small C-sine motor.
Although I'd appreciate if Märklin fits their SDS drive in every new model they may build,I do not consider it necessary to have my above mentioned models retrofitted with it.

Kind regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline supermoee  
#5 Posted : 15 January 2008 17:53:48(UTC)
supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
Dear all,

in Germany a update campain of the C-sine is already on going. Just call the service center and ask for it.

For first all the loco without real sound will be updated (es 37900, 39120), the locos with complete sound (like 39010) will be updated afer march.
In this campain the driver circuit and the decoder will be replaced (on 37900 even the wheels will be changed, with less rubber tires).

It is strange, that this campain is quite silent. You hear about it only by calling the service center or asking Mr Lorenz during toy fairs. Not like it was done for the CS.

How it will be managed in other contries? I do not know.

kind regards

Stephan
Offline Larry  
#6 Posted : 15 January 2008 18:46:20(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
It would make sense if Maerklin would contact customers that bought these models just like a recall of any other products. It is strange that if it were not for this website I'd have no clue.
Offline Caplin  
#7 Posted : 15 January 2008 22:45:54(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Has somebody if not M* compiled a list of numbers that qualifies for this new update. I might have one or two of the kind, but I am not sure.

Anyway I don't recall reading about this although I subscribe on the (free) newsletter from M*.


Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

UserPostedImage
Offline pa-pauls  
#8 Posted : 15 January 2008 23:35:12(UTC)
pa-pauls


Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,841
Location: Norway
Hello Benny Smile

This list you talking about would we like to see wink
Pål Paulsen
Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
Offline Caplin  
#9 Posted : 15 January 2008 23:59:10(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
I am sorry. It was supposed to be a question. [:o)]

I don't have a list, but would very much see one too. I was talking about having a loco.

Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

UserPostedImage
Offline svgeorgiad  
#10 Posted : 16 January 2008 00:19:40(UTC)
svgeorgiad

Greece   
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 614
Location: Athens,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus
<br />Hi Symeon,

I have bought the 39801 recently and it drives smoothly just like my 39420 Re 4/4I,which also has the previous version of the small C-sine motor.
Although I have no complaints about the former small C-sine there is a hardly noticeable difference in driving characteristics between the small C-sine motor and the newer SDS version.
The new SDS is absolutely smooth at every speed setting,while you may notice a very slight hesitation with the small C-sine motor.
Although I'd appreciate if Märklin fits their SDS drive in every new model they may build,I do not consider it necessary to have my above mentioned models retrofitted with it.

Kind regards
Guus


Hi Guus,

Good to hear that there is no problem with Compact C-Sine in 39801.
It makes me think seriously in getting my hands on it...

Regards

Symeon
Symeon Georgiadis
Offline jonquinn  
#11 Posted : 16 January 2008 05:11:46(UTC)
jonquinn


Joined: 15/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,591
Location: Pennsylvania
what about the registration cards marklin includes in every locomotive box? if the buyer bothered to fill it out and send it in, they dog-gone better know who has at least some of the locos!
no doubt they go in the circular file.
Offline Larry  
#12 Posted : 16 January 2008 05:29:05(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Thanks, Lutz, for clarifying the policy of Maerklin and understand and believe you are right on point in terms of Maerklin's position and stated relationship to the end customer. The safety hazard issues are likely to hold in many countries, however, if Maerklin were a US-based company, it is very unlikely it would be able to get away with such practices as consumer groups would demand recalls of any products deemed ineffective or problematic and groups such as the Consumers Union makes sure such information is readily available. I am not stating this to create an argument but due to consumer protection laws and rights in the US there are generally very very liberal return policies for products.

Perhaps this is why throughout this forum there are numerous accounts as to Marklin USA being very effective in addressing these issues. However, Marklin USA still has not returned my BR 50 and 05 Insider so I'm counting the days I am without their use![:(]
Offline mike c  
#13 Posted : 16 January 2008 06:38:37(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Larry
<br />Thanks, Lutz, for clarifying the policy of Maerklin and understand and believe you are right on point in terms of Maerklin's position and stated relationship to the end customer. The safety hazard issues are likely to hold in many countries, however, if Maerklin were a US-based company, it is very unlikely it would be able to get away with such practices as consumer groups would demand recalls of any products deemed ineffective or problematic and groups such as the Consumers Union makes sure such information is readily available. I am not stating this to create an argument but due to consumer protection laws and rights in the US there are generally very very liberal return policies for products.

Perhaps this is why throughout this forum there are numerous accounts as to Marklin USA being very effective in addressing these issues. However, Marklin USA still has not returned my BR 50 and 05 Insider so I'm counting the days I am without their use![:(]


@Larry
contact Ken Brzenk at Marklin USA to find out the latest on your returned loks

Regards

Mike C
Offline Larry  
#14 Posted : 16 January 2008 08:13:47(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Thanks, Mike. Appreciate the tip.
Offline pserup  
#15 Posted : 16 January 2008 19:10:13(UTC)
pserup

Denmark   
Joined: 02/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 897
Location: Ramløse, Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by svgeorgiad
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus
<br />Hi Symeon,

I have bought the 39801 recently and it drives smoothly just like my 39420 Re 4/4I,which also has the previous version of the small C-sine motor.
Although I have no complaints about the former small C-sine there is a hardly noticeable difference in driving characteristics between the small C-sine motor and the newer SDS version.
The new SDS is absolutely smooth at every speed setting,while you may notice a very slight hesitation with the small C-sine motor.
Although I'd appreciate if Märklin fits their SDS drive in every new model they may build,I do not consider it necessary to have my above mentioned models retrofitted with it.

Kind regards
Guus


Hi Guus,

Good to hear that there is no problem with Compact C-Sine in 39801.
It makes me think seriously in getting my hands on it...

Regards

Symeon
Hi guys,

I haven't got the 39801 but rather the 39800 which I assume is identical internally. This loko drives very smoothly and I like it immensely. BUT... if I turn on the lights in my ICE3 while the V200 is running it abruptly slows to a crawl - not so nice behaviour [B)]

I have a number of other compact c-sines that all display the same sad characteristics ...

In contrast, if I do the same to my 39050 it just keeps running at the same speed, completely unfazed Smile

Now, I call that a big difference ... Cool
CS, Denmark/Germany Ep. I - V, Switzerland Ep. II - V, USA Ep. III/IV
Offline soren36  
#16 Posted : 16 January 2008 23:17:49(UTC)
soren36

United States   
Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 858
Location: Connecticut, USA
What a mystery this compact Csine represents. I have a double C-track loop on a 4'x8' board powered by a 60055/120 transformer. As an experiment I simultaneously ran a 39080 (VT08.5), a 39120 ((E10.3 pulling 12 freight cars), and a 39010 (BR01 pulling the 43290 lighted cars) and have no problems, except, a slight slowdown of the VT08.5 when I switch the interior lights on. I didn't turn all the sound effects on, but all locos had their lights on.

On the 39080 - it has been a fine runner since new - one of my best. Go figure!

Hal
A Connecticut Yankee
Offline pa-pauls  
#17 Posted : 16 January 2008 23:38:27(UTC)
pa-pauls


Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,841
Location: Norway
Agree Hal

I also have the loco's you talk about and never had any problem, all nice runner's
Pål Paulsen
Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
Offline Larry  
#18 Posted : 17 January 2008 01:29:17(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Is there any easy way to get a listing of all the C-sine HO Maerklin products so I can compare what I have to this listing?
Offline supermoee  
#19 Posted : 17 January 2008 15:20:14(UTC)
supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
Hello Larry,

the loco in question are all the compact c-sine locos which came new in 2006.

So they are easy to identify if you have a catalogue.

For example the 39010, 39015, 39120, 37900, 37901, 39800, 39080, 39420, 39980, 39985. I do not remember them all.

As read and seen on pictures in the Stummi forum, the c-sine will not be upgradet to a SDS. The decoder and the driver platine will be exchanged and this for free. So nobody needs to be willing to pay.

kind regards

Stephan
Offline Larry  
#20 Posted : 17 January 2008 18:54:27(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Stephan - Thanks so much for that very helpful information.

Best regards,

Larry
Offline Larry  
#21 Posted : 17 January 2008 19:49:48(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Let me ask a dumb question involving the scope of the issues with these motors discussed above.

So far, the worst that happens with these sometimes problematic motors(C-sine and Compact c-sine)is a hesitation or delay? I mean you are not talking about reliability problems or the motor simply being defective and not working? So, if I am willing to tolerate this behavior there is nothing I need to do?

Thanks.
Offline pserup  
#22 Posted : 18 January 2008 02:08:47(UTC)
pserup

Denmark   
Joined: 02/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 897
Location: Ramløse, Denmark
No reliability problems here, but then I haven't had them running for more than a few hours ...
CS, Denmark/Germany Ep. I - V, Switzerland Ep. II - V, USA Ep. III/IV
Offline Larry  
#23 Posted : 18 January 2008 05:53:05(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Yes, Palle, that is my concern is that I have not run these models for any length of time. I'm not sure even what to expect or look for and how serious it is.
Offline Larry  
#24 Posted : 18 January 2008 05:54:40(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Yes, Palle, that is my concern is that I have not run these models for any length of time. I'm not sure even what to expect or look for and how serious it is.
Offline mjrallare  
#25 Posted : 18 January 2008 12:47:04(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Larry
<br />Yes, Palle, that is my concern is that I have not run these models for any length of time. I'm not sure even what to expect or look for and how serious it is.

I'm in exactly the same situation...

And I wonder what is true and what are just rumours in this matter.
At Stummis it's said that Märklin will give some kind of information in the beginning of April, but my dealer hasn't heard anything... Even if one hasn't had any problems after a few minutes of running, it doesn't guarantee that problems won't arise in the future. Since Märklin used this motor just one year, it clearly had its share of problems. So if it's for free, I'd like them to change motor/PCB just to be on the "safe side".

It would have been nice if Märklin could have made some kind of statement on their homepage, then we would have known how the situation is. Even if they don't find it necessary to take all the locos back, maybe they could extend the guarantee on these locos?

I've asked them through e-mail twice but, as always without reply... Maybe some here at the forum, who knows German better than me, could phone the Märklin "hot-line" and post the answer here. It would be much appreciated.
Stephan, you seem quite sure that there is already something being done. Is this "first-hand information"? I mean have you talked to Märklin yourself?

/Torbjörn
Offline JT42CWRDriver  
#26 Posted : 18 January 2008 15:15:00(UTC)
JT42CWRDriver


Joined: 28/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 136
Location: Newton Abbot, Devon. UK.
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by supermoee
<br />Hello Larry,

the loco in question are all the compact c-sine locos which came new in 2006.

So they are easy to identify if you have a catalogue.

For example the 39010, 39015, 39120, 37900, 37901, 39800, 39080, 39420, 39980, 39985. I do not remember them all.

As read and seen on pictures in the Stummi forum, the c-sine will not be upgradet to a SDS. The decoder and the driver platine will be exchanged and this for free. So nobody needs to be willing to pay.

kind regards

Stephan


I am interested in buying a 39010 from a German Ebay seller, so I find this worrying. It would be the most expensive loco I have ever bought, (at least double what I normally pay) and I would be bitterly disappointed if it doesn't run better than the 2 rail Roco version a friend has offered me for less than a third of the price.

I am changing over to Märklin from 2 rail stuff because I value reliability, and running quality. I would expect a loco of that price and sophistication to run at least as well as a Roco one with a Zimo decoder.

Will the modified motor driver be available as a spare part? If it was, then there is the possibility of using it with a Zimo MX64D. I know I would loose the sound then, I am not bothered about that because the price is better than I can get the 39015 for here.

Perhaps someone can put my mind at rest about this loco, I would dearly like to have one but it would have to run as good as it looks.

Last August I sat on the footplate of 01 008 in the museum at Bochum-Dalhausen and I would love a decent model of one.

Cheers,

Peter.


3 Rail/2 Rail Märklin, Fleischmann, Roco. DCC.
Offline supermoee  
#27 Posted : 18 January 2008 15:29:57(UTC)
supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
Hello Larry

the most common problems of the compact c-sine (the c-sine is not affected and working well, as the SDS is doing)are:

- sensibility to voltage fluctuation. The engine is not regulating. If the voltage is going down 1-2V because for example an fully lighted ICE is starting, the compact c-sine loco will drop his speed dramatically. You can experience it by swithcing an uncoupler on your CS while running a compactc-sine loco. if you have a booster section without regulated boosters, the loco will make a jump while passing the section.
- not compatible to Märklin braking module. While passing on the different section of the module, the loco will do some bucking
- bucking at very low speed (here not all the locos are affected)
- awful driving characteristics on non digital layouts.

Is clear that someone who has no booster sections, no braking modules and is not swithcing uncoupler per CS and does not like to run at very low speed will never experience the defects of the compact c-sine.
Here I'm thinking about all the people who have a small layout running with only 1 MS and not more that 1-2 tranis at the time.

Hello Torbjörn,

when I read the first experiences on the Stummi Forum I was wondering like you, why Märklin is not communicating it officially like they have done with the CS update. I thought, that on Stummi the information came from some "insider" (not the club Smile) who had a better knowledge.

I had asked Mr Lorenz (Märklin Digital PM) on the toy fair in Bern in october and he confirmed me that something will arrive before the end of the year.

So last week I called the Märklin Swiss import office and Service Center and they confirmed to me that this update is in the plannings of Märklin. He was wondering a little bit that in Germany they already started with it.
For Switzerland he confirmed me that in february they will issue the information for all dealers first, to keep them up to date, and that afterwards they will communicate this information on the swiss homepage. Locos sold in Switzerland will be updated in Switzerland. No need to send to Göppingen.

So I think that on Stummis Forum the information came from some people very close to Märklin. But something will happen soon from the information I collected.

Hello Peter,

my 39010 has better driving performance than my 37115 with maxxon motor, so I'm satisifed. The only problem I experience is this voltage sensitivity. Except this it runs smmothly.

The update cannot be done alone because you have to solder and Märklin does not want the risk that someone is damaging the loco.

But the never production lots of compact c-sine locos already have the new driver platine inside, so for sure you can buy it as a spare part.
Be aware that you will loose the warranty.

But if you bay a never production lot of the 39010 (if there is one), than you can be lucky and you do not need to change anything.

Here in the forum Lutz experienced the buy of a compact c-sine loco with already the new platine inside.


regards

Stephan
Offline mjrallare  
#28 Posted : 18 January 2008 19:43:08(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
Thanks for sharing the information Stephan!Smile I guess the only thing to do is to wait for a couple of months and see if there will be some kind of "official statement" from Märklin.
If you get some more information, please let us know.

/Torbjörn
Offline HvR  
#29 Posted : 19 January 2008 22:31:02(UTC)
HvR


Joined: 16/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 161
Location: ,
Hi to all,

I have been following this discussion on the compact c-sine with quite some interrest.

The only compact c-sine loc I have is the VT98 "schienenbus". Mine is from the first production run of 2006 and as such almost 2 years old now. Meaning that warant will end within 2 months from now. To see if anything is wrong with my decoder, I did a little test as described above.

First of all I must say that I have no complaints on this loco at all. It is running fine and I think it is one of the best running engines I have.

Test 1: speed step 1, operated with CS and running on M-track. Result: no hesitations whatsoever. Running constant.
Test 2: same at speedsteps 2 through 5. No problems.
Test 3: When running the schienenbus at speedstep 1 (interior lights on the schienenbus activated as well), I call my old BR86 with 6080 decoder, 3 pole motor and old style telex couplers to the other throttle on the CS. (I took this BR86 because this is quite a current consumer!!!!). Still with the schienenbus running, I let the BR86 run slowly and then I operate both telex couplers. I see the headlights on the BR86 dimm a little when the telexes are operated. At the same time I see the interior lights in the schienenbus dimm as well slightly when the BR86 telexes are activated. As such the schienenbus c-sine decoder must definately see a small voltage drop due to the operation of the BR86 telexes. However, the schienenbus remains running at the same constant speed. No drop in schienenbus speed whatsoever.
Test 4: the same telex test was repeated with the schienenbus running at several higher speeds. At no occasions I notices any drop in speed of the schienenbus while operating the BR86 telexes, although the small dimming of the schienenbus interior lights was seen in all occasions.

So my conclusion at this time is that although my schienenbus has a first generation compact c-sine, no evidence of a malfunctioning decoder was found.

Do you think this was a fair test to observe the described c-sine problems? If yes, do you agree with me that at least my schienenbus is not affected by the described problems?

Since I am so far still very very happy with this loc and because I don't want it to be shipped back and forth to the M* repair center here in Holland unnecessarily (risk of damage, both outside and inside because the interior is decorated with preiserleins), I seriously think of lettting this possible repair passing by.

Regards,

Hans
Offline JT42CWRDriver  
#30 Posted : 21 January 2008 17:17:38(UTC)
JT42CWRDriver


Joined: 28/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 136
Location: Newton Abbot, Devon. UK.
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by supermoee
<br />

Hello Peter,

my 39010 has better driving performance than my 37115 with maxxon motor, so I'm satisifed. The only problem I experience is this voltage sensitivity. Except this it runs smmothly.

The update cannot be done alone because you have to solder and Märklin does not want the risk that someone is damaging the loco.

But the never production lots of compact c-sine locos already have the new driver platine inside, so for sure you can buy it as a spare part.
Be aware that you will loose the warranty.

But if you bay a never production lot of the 39010 (if there is one), than you can be lucky and you do not need to change anything.

Here in the forum Lutz experienced the buy of a compact c-sine loco with already the new platine inside.


regards

Stephan


Thanks for that advise Stephan, I think I will wait a while before buying. I can't afford it at the moment anyway![:(]

Cheers,

Peter.
3 Rail/2 Rail Märklin, Fleischmann, Roco. DCC.
Offline supermoee  
#31 Posted : 22 January 2008 13:48:06(UTC)
supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
Hello Lutz,

the first thing I do when I get a new loco is to disable AC/DC operation. But this does not help to improve the voltage sensitivity of the c-sine.

kind regards

Stephan
Offline HvR  
#32 Posted : 22 January 2008 15:13:53(UTC)
HvR


Joined: 16/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 161
Location: ,
Lutz, Stephan,

3 small (and hopefully not too stupid) questions:

1: What is the purpose and benefit of disabling AC/DC operation on a decoder?
2: How to do that on a CS? Is it a CV setting?
3: does it apply only to mfx programmable decoders or also to a 60760 decoder?

Thanks in advance.

Hans
Offline marklin61  
#33 Posted : 01 February 2008 09:36:13(UTC)
marklin61


Joined: 05/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 101
Location: Tuki Tuki Valley
Hi all, well I am taking an interest in this thread and though I should add my 2 cents worth.
I have an 39010, 39800 and the insider VT 8.5 (39080) all with compact c sin motors. With the exception of the 39800 I have alot of trouble running the 39010 and the 39080 successfully. All my other locos which include a large number of 37xxx series run on my layout (with a 6021 and several boosters))with no problems at all. Then I took my 39010 and 39080 to my friends layout (which only 1 booster) and found that the ran reasonably well. It would seem to me the C sinus motor are less tolerated to bigger layouts with sevral boosters. The running characteritics change dramatically with load. The worst situation with both the 39010 and 39080 is they are hesitate and change speed without any adjustment to the controller. (and when they cross a booster segment)Yet on a single booster layout running by themselves they run okay.......... Has anyone else seen this type of problem...??

Look forward to any suggestions or feedback.

Steve
Steve...............

Life with Pinot Noir, Chocolate and Marklin trains..........
Offline supermoee  
#34 Posted : 01 February 2008 14:46:46(UTC)
supermoee

Switzerland   
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 534
Hello Hans,

1. I do not know rally, but I can immagine that this improves behaviour on braking modules. The way a breaking module works is that it is changing voltage and the decoder recognize it and brakes. Probably with AC/DC turned on, the decoder can missunderstand the new voltage of breaking module as an analogic tension
2. You find this point on top of the engine settings in the setting menue of the CS
3. I do not have this kind of decoder. Check in the settings menue if you have this option available.

Hello Steve,

you are experiencing the same problem already mentioned in this thread. If you have not voltage stabilized boosters, the C-Sine compact will react to all voltage changes by dropping dramatically the speed.

Kind regards

Stephan
Offline Larry  
#35 Posted : 01 February 2008 20:45:45(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Steve - I have some of the same Maerklin models including the VT 8.5. I have no boosters and have noticed no problems with hesitation, etc., so you may ben on to something.
Offline Davy  
#36 Posted : 01 February 2008 21:35:44(UTC)
Davy


Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by marklin61
<br />Hi all, well I am taking an interest in this thread and though I should add my 2 cents worth.
I have an 39010, 39800 and the insider VT 8.5 (39080) all with compact c sin motors. With the exception of the 39800 I have alot of trouble running the 39010 and the 39080 successfully. All my other locos which include a large number of 37xxx series run on my layout (with a 6021 and several boosters))with no problems at all. Then I took my 39010 and 39080 to my friends layout (which only 1 booster) and found that the ran reasonably well. It would seem to me the C sinus motor are less tolerated to bigger layouts with sevral boosters. The running characteritics change dramatically with load. The worst situation with both the 39010 and 39080 is they are hesitate and change speed without any adjustment to the controller. (and when they cross a booster segment)Yet on a single booster layout running by themselves they run okay.......... Has anyone else seen this type of problem...??

Look forward to any suggestions or feedback.

Steve



I can confirm this.

If you have no booster there is nothing wrong. But if you have you will see differences in speed.
M-track with a CS2.
Offline Pavle  
#37 Posted : 02 February 2008 00:49:54(UTC)
Pavle


Joined: 21/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 206
Location: Netherlands
Same kind of behaviour here, with 39834 (Taurus MWB) and 39835 (Taurus Porsche). Surprisingly, the MWB is a bit better than Porsche...
I do have several boosters, and I do see speed changes on the booster borders. But I think the main reason is a little power change. I guess if booster 1 is having more locs as booster 2, crossing the border from 1 to 2 gives a higher speed and vice versa. You see the same behaviour on one booster section if you power up another large consumer, like turning interior lights on the ICE on.

So I would like to see the upgrade...

Peter
Peter
Offline Larry  
#38 Posted : 02 February 2008 01:15:47(UTC)
Larry

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Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Well, this has been very instructive from all of you regarding the influence of boosters because I wondered why I have not seen any of these behaviors. Guess I'm content with C-sine locos and for my layout for now!

I would think the Maerklin people would want to confirm this in some way or at least know about it. Not sure why this isn't something all should know assuming it is proven to be true. Lutz?
Offline sudibarba  
#39 Posted : 02 February 2008 06:00:31(UTC)
sudibarba

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Location: Augusta, GA USA
Rockers?
Offline marklin61  
#40 Posted : 05 February 2008 12:12:05(UTC)
marklin61


Joined: 05/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 101
Location: Tuki Tuki Valley
I have been told by an the local marklin distributor that marklin are suppose to have an upgrade plan by Q1 this year. However our local rep is been frustrated by marklin not informing him on either the process or timeframe. The factory simply does not reply. There is no information on their web site or service letter available (at least in english) that I am aware of. I am getting concern that marklin have lost their passion to put things right and will ultimately lose customers in a very trying environment. I am use to good marklin quality which now appears to be suspect, at best. I hope marklin get there act together and treat their reps / clients with the respect that we have all be use to. Given most of us are very loyal supporters of marklin for many years, you would thing that they can be more in touch with their client base. and do the right thing. Marklin I hope you are listening......
Steve...............

Life with Pinot Noir, Chocolate and Marklin trains..........
Offline laalves  
#41 Posted : 06 February 2008 00:11:01(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Larry
Lutz?

Last year I got a nice letter (in German) regarding my reported issues and models. It explained why an upgrade was not possible before earliest end of Q4/2007 and included as well an apology for the inconvenience and long wait time. Depending upon needed parts, it might now be feasible some time in spring - no problem for me. wink

Got that too, because I sent both my VT08.5 and BR61. Will send back the schienenbus also.
Offline mjrallare  
#42 Posted : 06 February 2008 02:01:30(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
So an upgrade will indeed take place. Thanks for confirming that.

I'm glad for you who received this nice letter. Makes one wonder why this information couldn't be made public on the Märklin site. Or why they couldn't send a standardized answer on e-mails.

I don't mind waiting, but I do mind the way Märklin has handled this.

Hmmm... If I had sent my locos to Märklin I would have received this letter. Maybe we all should send our "compact-locos" to Märklin. If they were "drowned" by thousands of locos, they would at least understand that clear communication can be of benefit also to them.

/Torbjörn
Offline Larry  
#43 Posted : 06 February 2008 04:04:54(UTC)
Larry

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Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
Hmm...so I buy about 15 recent locos with C-sinus and no letter (in German or English). Pretty shabby treatment I'd say.
Offline marklin61  
#44 Posted : 06 February 2008 04:23:19(UTC)
marklin61


Joined: 05/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 101
Location: Tuki Tuki Valley
Yes I am glad at least there appears to be an upgrade program.
But I cannot excuse marklin for not at least advising their distributors of such a fact. These are the very people trying to sell, support and service their clients, and onsell more marklin product. Surely Marklin can at the very least send out a service note to their partners up dating them on these sorts of issues. It should not take everyone sending back their locos to Germany to get a letter, I am affraid that doesn't really wash with me. I have spent many years collecting marklin and have invested alot in their new range and insider models at very high prices, and all I want is for them to put what is wrong, right....
I cannot for the life of me understand why these service notes are not sent out to their distributors. What hope is there that fans will continue to support the company if things are not going to be put right. I can't help but feel cheated by Marklin by their continue silence on the matter. Wack up Marklin, there is a world wide support base that you will lose if you do not support your clients and partners.
Steve...............

Life with Pinot Noir, Chocolate and Marklin trains..........
Offline Larry  
#45 Posted : 06 February 2008 08:22:34(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
I couldn't agree more Steve. Cheated is the best way to put it and if it were not for this website I'd have absolutely no clue. I'm loosing faith in Maerklin in terms of transparency and their ability to connect to all customers whether through the dealers or directly. They certainly know where to find me when the Insider membership comes up for renewal but if I purchases thousands of dollars of their products they can't seem to get vital information to me including this and certificates of ownership. I can't help feeling betrayed and that I'm dealing with a sleazy poorly run organization that has little clue in how to satisfy customers when it matters most.
Offline mjrallare  
#46 Posted : 18 February 2008 15:01:39(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
Well, there were some interesting postings made by laalves and 60904 in the "zinkpest" topic.

https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...ault.aspx?g=posts&t=9304

These postings made me "hit the roof". Despite my bad German, I decided to call Märklin myself. Well it turns out that they also have the service in English, which might be good for some of you to know. Do call them. They answer reasonable fast and talk good English.

Facts: all c-sinus (compact version) engines will be updated and it doesn't matter were you live. Send them to Märklin through your dealer (in Germany or abroad), directly to Märklin or leave them at the "Erlebniswelt".

Is it worth the trouble? I guess that's up to each and one of you to decide for yourselves. I probably will have mine upgraded. But I don't look forward to putting my HWZ and the VT08 in a package and going through all the hazards of "postal-services"...

And I can't help making a comment about Märklin communications once more...
I have nothing but good to say about my call to the Märklin service-center and, with hindsight, I should of course have called them earlier.
But why haven't this crystal clear information been posted on the Märklin website?

Maybe:
1. Märklin don't wan't to talk aloud about this. The fewer who wants their locos updated, the better (money to be saved short-term).
2. Complete incompetence in the customer relations departement (if they indeed have one).

I think it's number two... Not to take advantage of this is unbelievable. A message sounding something like this should of course have been posted at Märklins site long ago;
"Unfortunately we have established some problems with our c-sinus engine delivered during 2006. We regret all problems this might have caused you as a customer. Since the satisfaction of our customers is priority number one for us at Märklin, we have decided to upgrade these engines at no cost for the customer. If you have a loco equipped with the above mentioned engine, and you want it upgraded, please do as follows..."

Such an announcement would have given Märklin a giant boost in "goodwill" with me, and I'm sure with many of you other guys too.
Not to take this opportunity to turn something bad into something good is incomprehensible.

I'm glad that I got a clear message from Märklin. Hat off for that! But, without public forums on internet, I would never have known about this "Austausch-aktion". Please Märklin, in the future I want the information from your website or directly from my dealer.

/Torbjörn
Offline mjrallare  
#47 Posted : 19 February 2008 01:06:30(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich
Hi Torbjörn,

it's neither 1 or 2.

OK, so maybe there's a third alternative. Care to share with us what that might be?

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich
PS: For the upgrade of your HWZ you need to be a little bit patient. wink

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this thread, I don't mind waiting. My only problem is that I don't understand why all this has to be so secret.

/Torbjörn
Offline marklin61  
#48 Posted : 19 February 2008 11:39:03(UTC)
marklin61


Joined: 05/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 101
Location: Tuki Tuki Valley
Thank you for the update. This has been very useful. I made a call to another dealer and ask about these upgrades and he to was un-ware of any. So the information does not seem to flow to the dealers ( at least in this country). I also notice there was no mention in the recent insider club info received only a week ago. To me it sounds like number 1......... secrets to keep costs down.. Lets face it this is nearly a year old problem and still no offical news from Marklin........Unless you ring..... I live on the other side of the planet and not one of the offical Marklin dealers in this country have recieved any information about this at all. If it wasn't for this web site I still would be in the dark.....I find this very distrubing given the thousand of dollars that most of us spend. To me I have to go with Torbjorn number 1.......
Steve...............

Life with Pinot Noir, Chocolate and Marklin trains..........
Offline mjrallare  
#49 Posted : 19 February 2008 12:39:03(UTC)
mjrallare


Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 560
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by marklin61
<br />Thank you for the update. This has been very useful. I made a call to another dealer and ask about these upgrades and he to was un-ware of any. So the information does not seem to flow to the dealers ( at least in this country).
...

My Swedish dealer doesn't know anything about this either. And the Swedish Märklin-distributor BRIO has no information at all...

/Torbjörn
Offline Larry  
#50 Posted : 20 February 2008 06:09:37(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
None of the dealers I've talked to in the US are aware of this.
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