Joined: 16/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 94
Location: San Fernando, Cadiz
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Hello, A member of spanish language Märklin list LCTM has send this photo of an green Kof II 36805 with evident signs of zinkpest. The member say that the lok is made in China few, but not too, years. This fact is, in my opinion, very serious, and Märklin must say something about it. http://es.ph.groups.yahoo.com/g...CTM/photos/view/c149?b=2Regards, Gerardo Rivero, San Fernando, Cádiz, Spain.
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 Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
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we need to sign up to the yahoo group to see the imagess
The images are also in the Märklin B&G yahoo grooup |
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 Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,689 Location: United Kingdom
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It need to sign in but not in English. |
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy. |
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Joined: 16/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 94
Location: San Fernando, Cadiz
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Hello, Sorry, I put the photo for public access:  Regards, Gerardo Rivero, San Fernando, Cádiz, Spain.
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Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
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1) Officially, Märklin does not produce models in China.
2) The picture says nothing: I see no serial number (has every Märklin chassis), no other motor parts that tells me this is a Märklin locomotive. |
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-) |
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Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,597 Location: Beverly, MA
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Hi all, Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MärCo
<br />1) Officially, Märklin does not produce models in China.
MärCo,officially or really? I remember years ago,when visting a friend,he had just gotten a US boxcar set,there was a sticker,placed over 'Made in Germany' printed on the box, with 'Made in China' Now I don't know a thing about international law,but coud this be it was 'Made in Germany' but assembled in China? Dr Dirt
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Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
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According to USA law, even if a part is made in Chine (perhaps a srew), the box must contain the sticker "made in China".
Under such a law, what to say about my Toyota? The car is Japanese, build in France with a lot of Chinese srews.
Still, the Köf pictures proves nothing.
And in such a case, I would make direct contact with Märklin. I am certain they will sort it out. |
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-) |
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Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
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Hornby Dublo suffered from this problem in the 1930s, but cured it post-War. I am astonished to see a 21st century model from any manufacturer suffering from it! |
Matt from Wales.
When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality |
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Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,597 Location: Beverly, MA
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Hi all, Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MärCo
<br />According to USA law, even if a part is made in Chine (perhaps a srew), the box must contain the sticker "made in China".
Under such a law, what to say about my Toyota? The car is Japanese, build in France with a lot of Chinese srews.
Thanks did not know that,....
Still, the Köf pictures proves nothing.
And in such a case, I would make direct contact with Märklin. I am certain they will sort it out. Don't they always?[xx(] Dr D
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Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
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Its looks like a idiot has dropped this little machine.
And locs are made in Goppingen Germany.
This loc is made in 2001/ 2002.
Our the loc has stand to long in the Spanisch sun.
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M-track with a CS2. |
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Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 858 Location: Connecticut, USA
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MärCo
<br />According to USA law, even if a part is made in Chine (perhaps a srew), the box must contain the sticker "made in China".
Under such a law, what to say about my Toyota? The car is Japanese, build in France with a lot of Chinese srews. Not so, MarCo. The US criteria is where the bulk of value is added, not a simple component. Interestingly, I received my INOX wagons this past week, 41870 and 41871, both with a sticker stating "Made in China". I also received my V90 switcher 37903 also with a sticker - "Made in Hungary". The wagons are indeed impressive, as is the V90 (which runs beautifully, and very quietly). |
A Connecticut Yankee |
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 Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,226 Location: Montreal, QC
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MärCo
<br />1) Officially, Märklin does not produce models in China.
2) The picture says nothing: I see no serial number (has every Märklin chassis), no other motor parts that tells me this is a Märklin locomotive.
1) This model was made for Maerklin by Brawa. While Maerklin did not produce any models in China at that time, they do today. The Brawa loks have been made in China for many years now. 2) It is not clear whether this is a Maerklin lok or a Brawa AC lok. In any case, the two would have many (if not all) parts in common. At present, there are freight cars that made in China. My 46321 Set came with a Made In China sticker. Officially, product that is ade in China but has final assembly in the EU can be labelled as Made in Germany or Made in the EU as the case may be. Final assembly could include the mounting of couplings and packaging of individual models in their boxes. You cannot be sure where it comes from unless it has all been done in China, in which case US law stipulates that that info must be posted on the box. Interesting to note that my 46323, which is an identical set but with different company decals says Maerklin Goeppingen without saying "Made in" anywhere. This item came from a European dealer. Regards Mike C
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Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
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I have a 36806.
I checked it carefully but there is not the smallest signal of pest, even if I am not satisfied of it (wherever it has been made) because it gave me many mechanical troubles...
Pietro
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Joined: 16/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 94
Location: San Fernando, Cadiz
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Hello, Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MärCo
1) Officially, Märklin does not produce models in China.
2) The picture says nothing: I see no serial number (has every Märklin chassis), no other motor parts that tells me this is a Märklin locomotive. Here we can view the Märklin label:  Regards, Gerardo Rivero, San Fernando, Cádiz, Spain.
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 Joined: 02/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,448 Location: Italy
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Is it possible that it isn't original model? I've checked mine, it seems all ok. The CE brand is in fusion and not painted  |
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 Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,435 Location: Switzerland
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by almagik
<br />Is it possible that it isn't original model?
This raises or rather revives an interesting question: rumors persist in connection with other models made in China that "semi-official" additional units were produced which were then not delivered to the European customer/client but sold through grey market channels.
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Joined: 16/05/2007(UTC)
Posts: 94
Location: San Fernando, Cadiz
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Hello, Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:almagik Posted - 2008/02/11 : 10:53:25
Is it possible that it isn't original model?
I've checked mine, it seems all ok.
The CE brand is in fusion and not painted Maybe, no Märklin code sticker. Your lok looks much better! Regards, Gerardo Rivero, San Fernando, Cádiz, Spain.
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Joined: 02/10/2005(UTC)
Posts: 856
Location: ,
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Like Chinese copies from the iPod..... |
You are never too late to become a Märklin fan. |
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 Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,453 Location: Scotland
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Interesting that Brawa have been made in China for a number of years. My two Brawas bought last year are top notch for both detail and running qualities.
David |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
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 Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 404 Location: vlaardingen,
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Not completely true Lutz,
mine is official, with label and so on, and ALSO HAS ZINCPEST!
It is the same green model.
Bart |
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Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
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From a long time , I have always been hearing strange rumours about Kof II !
Some series , not all , wera made with Brawa as subcontractor , I don't know which one ( at a time where production lines were overloaded )
Brawa is manufacturing this model in China , ..
Grey market for this model ,
...etc , ....
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Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Vardex
<br />Not completely true Lutz,
mine is official, with label and so on, and ALSO HAS ZINCPEST!
It is the same green model.
Bart
It should be interesting to show the serial number sticker , and tell Marklin which one it is...if a real one or a false one..
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Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
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All this creates a problem! How to distinguish an "official" model and an unofficial one? ... you will say:"buy only from authorised dealers"! But if I look for discontinued models or something else and I find something on ebay, how can I be sure that I'm not buying a copy! If this has made for an economic model such as this little kof, there will be other models that have been copied! [:(]
Pietro
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Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
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The title of this topic sounds like some kinds of tabloïd titles...
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Joined: 26/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 404 Location: vlaardingen,
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by al_pignolo
<br />All this creates a problem! How to distinguish an "official" model and an unofficial one? ... you will say:"buy only from authorised dealers"! But if I look for discontinued models or something else and I find something on ebay, how can I be sure that I'm not buying a copy! If this has made for an economic model such as this little kof, there will be other models that have been copied! [:(]
Pietro
I really don't believe there are copies. The shown pictures don't show the number simply because the part with the number on it isn't photographed. btw, mine (36805) has the number H1056857 Bart |
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 Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,802 Location: Wurttemberg
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Hi,
the parts of the broken loco don't contain the part which used to fix the number. So there is no evidence that this a "grey market" loco.
In this case it should be useful to know that ZINKPEST only appears at a storage temperature below 13,2°C. Models which have been always stored in a heated room don't show the characteristics.
Markus
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 Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,528 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
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As always, Markus is 100% correct. Note that the same thing can happen to tin ( = Solder. ) as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_pestAlso note that it is important how pure the material is..............[:0] Per. |
If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.  |
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 Joined: 02/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 170 Location: Norway
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by Purellum<br />As always, Markus is 100% correct. Note that the same thing can happen to tin ( = Solder. ) as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_pestAlso note that it is important how pure the material is..............[:0] Per. Not quite right, Per! According to the article below, Zink Pest and Tin Pest is not the same! Storage temperature below 13,2 C is related to tin and not zinc. Quite the opposite, warm and humid storage is bad for (contaminated) zinc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest |
- MRR keeps the child in you alive! |
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Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,528 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
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DA_800, you seem to be even more correct!  But I never said it was the same, only what you quoted. [}:)] Per. ( Still learning.  ) |
If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law. |
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Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by soren36
<br />I also received my V90 switcher 37903 also with a sticker - "Made in Hungary". That is very interesting. Where is the sticker attached - on the loco or the box? My 37903 loco and its box have no "Made in ..." sticker. The box has the 13 digit EAN (European Article Number) bar code label attached with the digits 4 001883 379036 and the Göppingen address. No indication of Hungary or China. The loco has the Märklin brand in fusion and the serial no. is S7096866. It would be interesting to know the significance of the letter and first digit(s) of the serial no. - probably a plant id or year of production. Does anybody know  |
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL  |
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Joined: 25/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 858 Location: Connecticut, USA
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Benny - my V90/37903 has the M* brand in fusion and the serial #S7096619 CE - the carton SKU/EAN code is the same as yours, as is the Goppingen address.
This Country of Origin requirement is a US thing that, according to the rules at least, means that more than 50% of the added value in this product, parts and/or labor, was sourced in Hungary. This information clearly had to come from Marklin-DE. In all probability the loco was completed in Hungary and shipped to Goppingen for ultimate export to the U.S.
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A Connecticut Yankee |
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Joined: 15/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,591
Location: Pennsylvania
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So where was this KOF in question bought? was it from a authorised marklin dealer as new or bought used from someone? or bought in asia somewhere? does the box have the usual marklin warranty card?
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Joined: 08/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 137
Location: ,
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Hello,
in Germany the problem is known too. Any attempts that these models are coming from the grey market are "needless". It's real Marklin stuff but up to now only a small part of Koefs have this problem.
We will see ..... |
Regards Charles |
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Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,248 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
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About the S in the serial number: that means that a c-Sinus model is fitted in the model.
Likewise, D = Digital, H = Hochleistung (5-pole), E = electronic direction switch |
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E. |
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Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Sander van Wijk
<br />About the S in the serial number: that means that a c-Sinus model is fitted in the model.
Likewise, D = Digital, H = Hochleistung (5-pole), E = electronic direction switch Ah, that is what the letters mean! Thank you Sander for clearing this up. |
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL |
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Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Sander van Wijk
<br />About the S in the serial number: that means that a c-Sinus model is fitted in the model.
Likewise, D = Digital, H = Hochleistung (5-pole), E = electronic direction switch
Another letter is M... I guess it is for delta locos. Caplin I am curious about the meaning of the digits, too! I hope someone knows!!! [:p] Pietro
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Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
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Lutz knows, I am sure. |
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL |
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Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616
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Hi all,
i hope this will help:
Numbers on Märklin Chassis:
xxxxx.. = Mechanical Reversing Relais
Vxxxx.. = pre Electronic Relais
Exxxx.. = Electronic Relais
Rxxxx.. = 5 star propulsion ?
Dxxxx. = Digital High performance propulsion uncontrolled
Hxxxx.. = Digital High performance propulsion controlled
Mxxxx.. = Delta
Sxxxx.. = C-Sinus-Motor
xxxxxx = figure next to letter. First digit is year of production.
So ,for instance the orange Köf in Lutzs picture has an H = Hochleistungsantrieb and was build in 2002.
Kind regards
Guus |
Kind regards,
Guus |
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Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
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Thank you, Guus.
I am not sure about the letter R in your table, though.
My H units have the 5 star motor.
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Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL |
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Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Benny:
<br />Thank you, Guus.
I am not sure about the letter R in your table, though.
Neither am I [:I] For all I know this letter is used in association with the 35... series of models.So with a 5 pole motor and electronic reversing device. Kind regards Guus |
Kind regards,
Guus |
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Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997
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Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
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Very good Dale, I was just doing the same, but you beat me to it. |
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL |
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Joined: 14/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 16
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by Hemmerich<br /> Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by MärCoQuote:2) The picture says nothing: I see no serial number (has every Märklin chassis), no other motor parts that tells me this is a Märklin locomotive. The picture tells everything needed to know about this "special" model. I just did a quick check through my small list of Köf's.   ALL models w/o any exception have their serial no. and Märklin ID like shown here with the cute "Mandarinli".  The only exceptions are: - the first Märklin Köf (#3680) which was manufactured by BRAWA for Märklin: it still shows the famous "Made in W. Germany" in fusion.  - the discussed SKW Köf model here (#36805): the "CE" label is only printed (white) instead of in fusion; this is due to being the first delivered version of the Köf models - as you can see by comparing the different serial numbers between my model (produced in 2001; serial# w/o "CE") and that of Alberto (2003).  It's not only a rumor that a number of illegal produced model of the SKW Köf were sold through the grey market (including someone in Hongkong). A missing serial number label could be one indication of such a model (whereas it is not attached to the chassis shown above, but rather to the bottom of the shunting boards); the rather grey instead of black body of the model another (maybe just differences in taking the pictures); the missing magnets (unless they have fallen out) a third one. Needless to say that NONE of my own models show any sign of "Zinkpest" (yet). [^] PS: The affected customer should get in contact with seller of this model. 
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Joined: 14/02/2008(UTC)
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Dear Lutz, I have baught my Köf-Trostberg on 18 December 2001 from my official Märklindealer in Woerden (the Netherlands)! It was one of the first locs that were delevered at his shop that same week. How could it than be a copied one??Here you see pictures that I have just made af te loc:   Please, tell me why these loc is a falsified one! Greetings from Dutchman (the Netherlands) Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by Hemmerich<br /> Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by MärCoQuote:2) The picture says nothing: I see no serial number (has every Märklin chassis), no other motor parts that tells me this is a Märklin locomotive. The picture tells everything needed to know about this "special" model. I just did a quick check through my small list of Köf's. ALL models w/o any exception have their serial no. and Märklin ID like shown here with the cute "Mandarinli". The only exceptions are: - the first Märklin Köf (#3680) which was manufactured by BRAWA for Märklin: it still shows the famous "Made in W. Germany" in fusion. - the discussed SKW Köf model here (#36805): the "CE" label is only printed (white) instead of in fusion; this is due to being the first delivered version of the Köf models - as you can see by comparing the different serial numbers between my model (produced in 2001; serial# w/o "CE") and that of Alberto (2003). It's not only a rumor that a number of illegal produced model of the SKW Köf were sold through the grey market (including someone in Hongkong). A missing serial number label could be one indication of such a model (whereas it is not attached to the chassis shown above, but rather to the bottom of the shunting boards); the rather grey instead of black body of the model another (maybe just differences in taking the pictures); the missing magnets (unless they have fallen out) a third one. Needless to say that NONE of my own models show any sign of "Zinkpest" (yet). [^] PS: The affected customer should get in contact with seller of this model.
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,226 Location: Montreal, QC
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by Dutchman<br />Dear Lutz, I have baught my Köf-Trostberg on 18 December 2001 from my official Märklindealer in Woerden (the Netherlands)! It was one of the first locs that were delevered at his shop that same week. How could it than be a copied one??Here you see pictures that I have just made af te loc: Please, tell me why these loc is a falsified one! Greetings from Dutchman (the Netherlands) Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by Hemmerich<br /> Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: Originally posted by MärCoQuote:2) The picture says nothing: I see no serial number (has every Märklin chassis), no other motor parts that tells me this is a Märklin locomotive. The picture tells everything needed to know about this "special" model. I just did a quick check through my small list of Köf's. ALL models w/o any exception have their serial no. and Märklin ID like shown here with the cute "Mandarinli". The only exceptions are: - the first Märklin Köf (#3680) which was manufactured by BRAWA for Märklin: it still shows the famous "Made in W. Germany" in fusion. - the discussed SKW Köf model here (#36805): the "CE" label is only printed (white) instead of in fusion; this is due to being the first delivered version of the Köf models - as you can see by comparing the different serial numbers between my model (produced in 2001; serial# w/o "CE") and that of Alberto (2003). It's not only a rumor that a number of illegal produced model of the SKW Köf were sold through the grey market (including someone in Hongkong). A missing serial number label could be one indication of such a model (whereas it is not attached to the chassis shown above, but rather to the bottom of the shunting boards); the rather grey instead of black body of the model another (maybe just differences in taking the pictures); the missing magnets (unless they have fallen out) a third one. Needless to say that NONE of my own models show any sign of "Zinkpest" (yet). [^] PS: The affected customer should get in contact with seller of this model. The first Kof was made for Maerklin by Brawa. I do not have any information that successive models were made by Maerklin and not also made for Maerklin by Brawa. It would be natural for a model to undergo changes, especially considering that this model was released just at about the same time that Maerklin introduced the NEM coupling shaft and the 7203 close coupler. AFAIK the models were all made in China. Regards Mike C
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Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,597 Location: Beverly, MA
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Hi all, And of course we know for a <u>fact</u> that no one would ever,ever fake a Marklin model,right No chance! Just like any British athlete going to the Olympics you'd never sgree to a closed-mouth agreement,....[}:)] Dr Dirt (right)
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Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
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By Roco locs it happens also.
Source stummi's forum.
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M-track with a CS2. |
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Joined: 10/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 329
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AFAIK the models were all made in China.
Any proof for this would be welcome.
All Kofs from about 2000 on are chinese the boxes are marked as such id the models were imported in North America - I have 8 Kof - 7 of which are clearly marked made in China .... Oh iFortgot marklin doesn't want its's German customers to believe that stuff comes out of China - and this kind of grabage manufacturing occurs there - very sad indeed. |
Collecting / Fixing and Running trains since 1966. |
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by 7gauges
<br />Oh i forgot marklin doesn't want it's German customers to believe that stuff comes
out of China - and this kind of garbage manufacturing occurs there - very sad indeed. True words from a Guru ... |
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Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,453 Location: Scotland
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Quote:[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by 7gauges
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AFAIK the models were all made in China.
Any proof for this would be welcome.
All Kofs from about 2000 on are chinese the boxes are marked as such id the models were imported in North America - I have 8 Kof - 7 of which are clearly marked made in China .... Oh iFortgot marklin doesn't want its's German customers to believe that stuff comes out of China - and this kind of grabage manufacturing occurs there - very sad indeed.
Well now we know where they are made. However as i think I said earlier the stuff I have from Brawa which is made in China is very good but then again I have not had a model from Brawa which has had a problem. It may be that Brawa check there product carefully as Marklin did in the past. We probably have to live with the country of manufacture but would hope that quality control is of a good standard. Kofs are very popular and it could be just the odd model that has the problem and I would not be put off buying one as the majority are OK. David |
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer. |
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