Does Somebody have any news about the starting upgrade of the locos with the Csinus compact?

The 39802 and 39801 are still offered with Compact C-sinus. Does anybody know if these models are operating well or do they have the same problems like all C-sinus motorized locs?
Would it be better for somebody who is eager to buy to wait until these locs are also launched from M* with SDS or is this just a dream that will not come true by M*?

Dear all,

in Germany a update campain of the C-sine is already on going. Just call the service center and ask for it.

For first all the loco without real sound will be updated (es 37900, 39120), the locos with complete sound (like 39010) will be updated afer march.
In this campain the driver circuit and the decoder will be replaced (on 37900 even the wheels will be changed, with less rubber tires).

It is strange, that this campain is quite silent. You hear about it only by calling the service center or asking Mr Lorenz during toy fairs. Not like it was done for the CS.

How it will be managed in other contries? I do not know.

kind regards

Stephan

Has somebody if not M* compiled a list of numbers that qualifies for this new update. I might have one or two of the kind, but I am not sure.

Anyway I don't recall reading about this although I subscribe on the (free) newsletter from M*.

I am sorry. It was supposed to be a question. [:o)]

I don't have a list, but would very much see one too. I was talking about having a loco.

what about the registration cards marklin includes in every locomotive box? if the buyer bothered to fill it out and send it in, they dog-gone better know who has at least some of the locos!
no doubt they go in the circular file.

@Larry
contact Ken Brzenk at Marklin USA to find out the latest on your returned loks

Regards

Mike C

Hi guys,

I haven't got the 39801 but rather the 39800 which I assume is identical internally. This loko drives very smoothly and I like it immensely. BUT... if I turn on the lights in my ICE3 while the V200 is running it abruptly slows to a crawl - not so nice behaviour [B)]

I have a number of other compact c-sines that all display the same sad characteristics ...

In contrast, if I do the same to my 39050 it just keeps running at the same speed, completely unfazed

Now, I call that a big difference ...

Agree Hal

I also have the loco's you talk about and never had any problem, all nice runner's

Hello Larry,

the loco in question are all the compact c-sine locos which came new in 2006.

So they are easy to identify if you have a catalogue.

For example the 39010, 39015, 39120, 37900, 37901, 39800, 39080, 39420, 39980, 39985. I do not remember them all.

As read and seen on pictures in the Stummi forum, the c-sine will not be upgradet to a SDS. The decoder and the driver platine will be exchanged and this for free. So nobody needs to be willing to pay.

kind regards

Stephan

Let me ask a dumb question involving the scope of the issues with these motors discussed above.

So far, the worst that happens with these sometimes problematic motors(C-sine and Compact c-sine)is a hesitation or delay? I mean you are not talking about reliability problems or the motor simply being defective and not working? So, if I am willing to tolerate this behavior there is nothing I need to do?

Thanks.

Yes, Palle, that is my concern is that I have not run these models for any length of time. I'm not sure even what to expect or look for and how serious it is.

I'm in exactly the same situation...

And I wonder what is true and what are just rumours in this matter.
At Stummis it's said that Märklin will give some kind of information in the beginning of April, but my dealer hasn't heard anything... Even if one hasn't had any problems after a few minutes of running, it doesn't guarantee that problems won't arise in the future. Since Märklin used this motor just one year, it clearly had its share of problems. So if it's for free, I'd like them to change motor/PCB just to be on the "safe side".

It would have been nice if Märklin could have made some kind of statement on their homepage, then we would have known how the situation is. Even if they don't find it necessary to take all the locos back, maybe they could extend the guarantee on these locos?

I've asked them through e-mail twice but, as always without reply... Maybe some here at the forum, who knows German better than me, could phone the Märklin "hot-line" and post the answer here. It would be much appreciated.
Stephan, you seem quite sure that there is already something being done. Is this "first-hand information"? I mean have you talked to Märklin yourself?

/Torbjörn

Hello Larry

the most common problems of the compact c-sine (the c-sine is not affected and working well, as the SDS is doing)are:

- sensibility to voltage fluctuation. The engine is not regulating. If the voltage is going down 1-2V because for example an fully lighted ICE is starting, the compact c-sine loco will drop his speed dramatically. You can experience it by swithcing an uncoupler on your CS while running a compactc-sine loco. if you have a booster section without regulated boosters, the loco will make a jump while passing the section.
- not compatible to Märklin braking module. While passing on the different section of the module, the loco will do some bucking
- bucking at very low speed (here not all the locos are affected)
- awful driving characteristics on non digital layouts.

Is clear that someone who has no booster sections, no braking modules and is not swithcing uncoupler per CS and does not like to run at very low speed will never experience the defects of the compact c-sine.
Here I'm thinking about all the people who have a small layout running with only 1 MS and not more that 1-2 tranis at the time.

Hello Torbjörn,

when I read the first experiences on the Stummi Forum I was wondering like you, why Märklin is not communicating it officially like they have done with the CS update. I thought, that on Stummi the information came from some "insider" (not the club ) who had a better knowledge.

I had asked Mr Lorenz (Märklin Digital PM) on the toy fair in Bern in october and he confirmed me that something will arrive before the end of the year.

So last week I called the Märklin Swiss import office and Service Center and they confirmed to me that this update is in the plannings of Märklin. He was wondering a little bit that in Germany they already started with it.
For Switzerland he confirmed me that in february they will issue the information for all dealers first, to keep them up to date, and that afterwards they will communicate this information on the swiss homepage. Locos sold in Switzerland will be updated in Switzerland. No need to send to Göppingen.

So I think that on Stummis Forum the information came from some people very close to Märklin. But something will happen soon from the information I collected.

Hello Peter,

my 39010 has better driving performance than my 37115 with maxxon motor, so I'm satisifed. The only problem I experience is this voltage sensitivity. Except this it runs smmothly.

The update cannot be done alone because you have to solder and Märklin does not want the risk that someone is damaging the loco.

But the never production lots of compact c-sine locos already have the new driver platine inside, so for sure you can buy it as a spare part.
Be aware that you will loose the warranty.

But if you bay a never production lot of the 39010 (if there is one), than you can be lucky and you do not need to change anything.

Here in the forum Lutz experienced the buy of a compact c-sine loco with already the new platine inside.


regards

Stephan

Hi to all,

I have been following this discussion on the compact c-sine with quite some interrest.

The only compact c-sine loc I have is the VT98 "schienenbus". Mine is from the first production run of 2006 and as such almost 2 years old now. Meaning that warant will end within 2 months from now. To see if anything is wrong with my decoder, I did a little test as described above.

First of all I must say that I have no complaints on this loco at all. It is running fine and I think it is one of the best running engines I have.

Test 1: speed step 1, operated with CS and running on M-track. Result: no hesitations whatsoever. Running constant.
Test 2: same at speedsteps 2 through 5. No problems.
Test 3: When running the schienenbus at speedstep 1 (interior lights on the schienenbus activated as well), I call my old BR86 with 6080 decoder, 3 pole motor and old style telex couplers to the other throttle on the CS. (I took this BR86 because this is quite a current consumer!!!!). Still with the schienenbus running, I let the BR86 run slowly and then I operate both telex couplers. I see the headlights on the BR86 dimm a little when the telexes are operated. At the same time I see the interior lights in the schienenbus dimm as well slightly when the BR86 telexes are activated. As such the schienenbus c-sine decoder must definately see a small voltage drop due to the operation of the BR86 telexes. However, the schienenbus remains running at the same constant speed. No drop in schienenbus speed whatsoever.
Test 4: the same telex test was repeated with the schienenbus running at several higher speeds. At no occasions I notices any drop in speed of the schienenbus while operating the BR86 telexes, although the small dimming of the schienenbus interior lights was seen in all occasions.

So my conclusion at this time is that although my schienenbus has a first generation compact c-sine, no evidence of a malfunctioning decoder was found.

Do you think this was a fair test to observe the described c-sine problems? If yes, do you agree with me that at least my schienenbus is not affected by the described problems?

Since I am so far still very very happy with this loc and because I don't want it to be shipped back and forth to the M* repair center here in Holland unnecessarily (risk of damage, both outside and inside because the interior is decorated with preiserleins), I seriously think of lettting this possible repair passing by.

Regards,

Hans

Hello Lutz,

the first thing I do when I get a new loco is to disable AC/DC operation. But this does not help to improve the voltage sensitivity of the c-sine.

kind regards

Stephan

Hi all, well I am taking an interest in this thread and though I should add my 2 cents worth.
I have an 39010, 39800 and the insider VT 8.5 (39080) all with compact c sin motors. With the exception of the 39800 I have alot of trouble running the 39010 and the 39080 successfully. All my other locos which include a large number of 37xxx series run on my layout (with a 6021 and several boosters))with no problems at all. Then I took my 39010 and 39080 to my friends layout (which only 1 booster) and found that the ran reasonably well. It would seem to me the C sinus motor are less tolerated to bigger layouts with sevral boosters. The running characteritics change dramatically with load. The worst situation with both the 39010 and 39080 is they are hesitate and change speed without any adjustment to the controller. (and when they cross a booster segment)Yet on a single booster layout running by themselves they run okay.......... Has anyone else seen this type of problem...??

Look forward to any suggestions or feedback.

Steve

Steve - I have some of the same Maerklin models including the VT 8.5. I have no boosters and have noticed no problems with hesitation, etc., so you may ben on to something.

Same kind of behaviour here, with 39834 (Taurus MWB) and 39835 (Taurus Porsche). Surprisingly, the MWB is a bit better than Porsche...
I do have several boosters, and I do see speed changes on the booster borders. But I think the main reason is a little power change. I guess if booster 1 is having more locs as booster 2, crossing the border from 1 to 2 gives a higher speed and vice versa. You see the same behaviour on one booster section if you power up another large consumer, like turning interior lights on the ICE on.

So I would like to see the upgrade...

Peter

Rockers?

Got that too, because I sent both my VT08.5 and BR61. Will send back the schienenbus also.

Hmm...so I buy about 15 recent locos with C-sinus and no letter (in German or English). Pretty shabby treatment I'd say.

I couldn't agree more Steve. Cheated is the best way to put it and if it were not for this website I'd have absolutely no clue. I'm loosing faith in Maerklin in terms of transparency and their ability to connect to all customers whether through the dealers or directly. They certainly know where to find me when the Insider membership comes up for renewal but if I purchases thousands of dollars of their products they can't seem to get vital information to me including this and certificates of ownership. I can't help feeling betrayed and that I'm dealing with a sleazy poorly run organization that has little clue in how to satisfy customers when it matters most.

OK, so maybe there's a third alternative. Care to share with us what that might be?


As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this thread, I don't mind waiting. My only problem is that I don't understand why all this has to be so secret.

/Torbjörn

My Swedish dealer doesn't know anything about this either. And the Swedish Märklin-distributor BRIO has no information at all...

/Torbjörn