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Offline kiwiAlan  
#51 Posted : 16 March 2023 14:13:33(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,593
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
In response to how the planned process for doing updates willbe done, I have the following response from Marklin.

- If your WiFi is connected to internet, the MS WLAN can get what it needs from there.
- If there is no internet connection you can download the update file from our web site ...


the nugget in this is
... and install it via the web user-interface of the MS WLAN.


We can now speculate what else might be available via the web user-interface
May be a semi-ergonomic means to manage the layout signals and turnouts ...


That is something I had considered - will the current cs2 PC program connect to the wifi box?
Also does this then introduce a way to update a standard ms2 without using a cs2/3?
Offline clapcott  
#52 Posted : 23 March 2023 07:18:12(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,395
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
In response to a query re Lococards

The 60667 MS2 WLAN no longer has a card reader integrated in the device.
The space in the unit was needed for the additional technology.
Peter
Offline Minok  
#53 Posted : 23 March 2023 07:44:17(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,297
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
In response to a query re Lococards

The 60667 MS2 WLAN no longer has a card reader integrated in the device.
The space in the unit was needed for the additional technology.


Well that is a shame given how prone to loosing its mind and needing a reset the MS2 design is.
So every time one must pull all the locos back to programming track to relearn them?
Double bad for DCC only locos that you need to manually set up in the MS to get all the functions.
Can it at least slave off of a normal MS2 to enable getting the data that way?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline clapcott  
#54 Posted : 23 March 2023 08:46:07(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,395
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
In response to how the planned process for doing updates willbe done, I have the following response from Marklin.

- If your WiFi is connected to internet, the MS WLAN can get what it needs from there.
- If there is no internet connection you can download the update file from our web site ...


the nugget in this is
... and install it via the web user-interface of the MS WLAN.


We can now speculate what else might be available via the web user-interface
May be a semi-ergonomic means to manage the layout signals and turnouts ...


That is something I had considered - will the current cs2 PC program connect to the wifi box?
Also does this then introduce a way to update a standard ms2 without using a cs2/3?


I am on the fence on the conveyed meaning, and whether it is the MS2 WLAN that has the "web user interface" or if it is in the 60117.

it seems to me to be rather overkill to factor this into the MS2 WLAN itself when it (for operation) must connect to either a CS (home network) or the 60117 anyway!
The stability (hardwired to power through the 60113/6) of the 60117 would appear to be a more logical coordination point, and maybe beter able to provide the file space for firmware images to ALL
- MS2 legacy
- MS2 WLAN
- Trackbox
Peter
Offline clapcott  
#55 Posted : 23 March 2023 08:50:22(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,395
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
In response to a query re Lococards

The 60667 MS2 WLAN no longer has a card reader integrated in the device.
The space in the unit was needed for the additional technology.

....
Can it at least slave off of a normal MS2 to enable getting the data that way?

I do have an outstandin query on the subject of " who is Master".

If, (and I am not yet assuming it is possible until I get handon) the MS2 WLAN + 60117 can work with a 60116(3) WITHOUT another legacy MS2 6053/7,then it needs to be able to be the master, but even then - is it the MS2 WLAN OR the 60117 that holds the Roster details.
Peter
Offline clapcott  
#56 Posted : 23 March 2023 09:02:58(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,395
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Well that is a shame ...

I concur, and would be inclined to cancel my order if not for my technical curiosity.

Peter
Offline mbarreto  
#57 Posted : 23 March 2023 10:24:57(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,148

About the non existence of the card reader/writer it is not time yet to blame. Maybe it can save and read configuration to an external device. That would be much better than the cards solution.
Let's wait and see...

Miguel
Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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bph
Offline clapcott  
#58 Posted : 24 March 2023 21:47:29(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,395
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

Maybe it can save and read configuration to an external device. That would be much better than the cards solution.


you are refering to one aspect of transferring data.

I am more interested in the operational selection of trains. I.e aleviating the non-ergonomic and time consuming need to change glasses and pick through 40 meaningless dots having to read the screen as you go.

I would rather look at the trains
Peter
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Offline mbarreto  
#59 Posted : 24 March 2023 23:12:59(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,148
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

Maybe it can save and read configuration to an external device. That would be much better than the cards solution.


you are refering to one aspect of transferring data.

I am more interested in the operational selection of trains. I.e aleviating the non-ergonomic and time consuming need to change glasses and pick through 40 meaningless dots having to read the screen as you go.

I would rather look at the trains


I understand your point of view, although I think the Mobile Station, even it can have up to 40 locs "pre-configured", it is not intended
to be used with such a number.
As a you say, the card is a fast way to select the desired locomotive.

Miguel


Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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bph
Offline Minok  
#60 Posted : 30 March 2023 04:32:20(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,297
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Got a response from Märklin on the card reader removal and how to use cards Lok Cards in a System with the MS 2 wlan.

If you have connected the first 60657 Mobile Station 2 to the track box, you can read in the locomotives via the card reader. The data of the locomotives are stored on the track box. When you then plug in the MS 2 WLAN, the data is transferred from there to the new WLAN MS2.


So the wlan version can access the database stored in the trackbox or the CS.

That means for running a small seasonal layout, the MS2 WLAN is a non starter of the loco is a DCC one where access to the higher functions is needed and dealing with the resetting that one has to occasionally go through with the MS2. Maybe the firmware will get more stable in the future. Or just stick to the mfx locos on those seasonal layouts.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline bph  
#61 Posted : 30 March 2023 13:45:43(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 775
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Got a response from Märklin on the card reader removal and how to use cards Lok Cards in a System with the MS 2 wlan.

If you have connected the first 60657 Mobile Station 2 to the track box, you can read in the locomotives via the card reader. The data of the locomotives are stored on the track box. When you then plug in the MS 2 WLAN, the data is transferred from there to the new WLAN MS2.


So the wlan version can access the database stored in the trackbox or the CS.

That means for running a small seasonal layout, the MS2 WLAN is a non starter of the loco is a DCC one where access to the higher functions is needed and dealing with the resetting that one has to occasionally go through with the MS2. Maybe the firmware will get more stable in the future. Or just stick to the mfx locos on those seasonal layouts.


perhaps one possible solution could be to release a 60117 WLAN Receiver Box with a card reader. ?
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Offline FrankF  
#62 Posted : 15 April 2023 12:52:11(UTC)
FrankF

Denmark   
Joined: 18/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 103
Manuals for Marklin 60667 - MS2 WLAN and Marklin 60117 - WLAN Box is now Online :

https://static.maerklin.de/damcontent/42/84/4284cf4f34932f44c48d8fc41a1e03bb1681286109.pdf ( 60667 - MS2 WLAN )

https://static.maerklin.de/damcontent/b2/aa/b2aa90eea289731f61a6bebe4c9e51ba1681286133.pdf ( 60117 - WLAN Box )
Frank F
CS3+ 60216 (SW:2.4.1) / CS2 60215 (SW:4.3.0) / MS2 60653/57 (SW:3.148) / PC Version 4.2.1 / RailControl.org
MDT 3 (SW 3.5.0) - HW: 60970/60971/M60801
H0 C-Track / M7286 (+LDT TT-DEC Decoder) / M7294 (M84) / 76500 / 76510 / 7051
ESU Lokprogrammer (SW 5.2.3) ESU Teststand/Extension
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#63 Posted : 15 April 2023 14:35:42(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,593
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: FrankF Go to Quoted Post
Manuals for Marklin 60667 - MS2 WLAN and Marklin 60117 - WLAN Box is now Online :

https://static.maerklin.de/damcontent/42/84/4284cf4f34932f44c48d8fc41a1e03bb1681286109.pdf ( 60667 - MS2 WLAN )

https://static.maerklin.de/damcontent/b2/aa/b2aa90eea289731f61a6bebe4c9e51ba1681286133.pdf ( 60117 - WLAN Box )


Some interesting items in the Receiver - the web page can only be accessed while there are 60667 devices attached. There are no specific instructions about the web page setup, so presumably it is pretty simple.

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bph
Offline clapcott  
#64 Posted : 17 April 2023 02:40:54(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,395
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Some interesting items in the Receiver - the web page can only be accessed while there are 60667 devices attached. ...

Umm.

60117 ( 60117 WLAN Box is a WLAN receiver)
"
Web Interface

A Smartphone or a PC (with WLAN) can access the WLAN
Box as long as the 60117 WLAN Box is not connected to the
60667 Mobile Station WLAN.
"

60667
"
Web Interface

When the Mobile Station WLAN is not connected to
a router or the 60117 WLAN Box, you can access the
Mobile Station from a PC (with WLAN) or a Smartphone.
"
Peter
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Offline Minok  
#65 Posted : 17 April 2023 03:33:49(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,297
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Some interesting items in the Receiver - the web page can only be accessed while there are 60667 devices attached. ...

Umm.

60117 ( 60117 WLAN Box is a WLAN receiver)
"
Web Interface

A Smartphone or a PC (with WLAN) can access the WLAN
Box as long as the 60117 WLAN Box is not connected to the
60667 Mobile Station WLAN.
"

60667
"
Web Interface

When the Mobile Station WLAN is not connected to
a router or the 60117 WLAN Box, you can access the
Mobile Station from a PC (with WLAN) or a Smartphone.
"


Indeed. Now the question is , what are the limited things the web interface allows. Or without a smartphone can one operate a locomotive via the web interface? Or is there no need to even bother with an MS2wlan ?

Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline clapcott  
#66 Posted : 17 April 2023 05:16:02(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,395
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Indeed. Now the question is , what are the limited things the web interface allows. Or without a smartphone can one operate a locomotive via the web interface? Or is there no need to even bother with an MS2wlan ?

Personally I remain unsatisfied to either


It might be a bit derogatory for me to suggest that the statements come from a test set up that had both the PC and the MS-WLan set statically to the same address. i.e. the tester would obviously encounter conflicts and may not know any different

As to the use of "Web Interface" (emphasis on the "Web")
Then while it may be that the units have the bloated WebApp ("Control") of a CS3 , I might suggest it is more likely to be terser API (CAN over Ethernet) - with maybe an improved TCP rather than UDP implementation


There is a need to differentiate configuration/management vs operation.
Setup of configuration, including address mapping of the 4 IR addresses, an code updates are one thing and require a rather simple UI
For operation, even a stunted "layout diagram" WebApp would be a big plus for MS only users
Peter
Offline H0  
#67 Posted : 17 April 2023 09:37:05(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,973
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
perhaps one possible solution could be to release a 60117 WLAN Receiver Box with a card reader. ?
Not for all use-cases. You can simply select a loco on the MS2 by pushing in the loco card, even if the loco is already in the system.
A card reader in the track box would cover the "backup" use-case, but not the "quick selection" use-case.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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bph
Offline Goofy  
#68 Posted : 17 April 2023 17:19:59(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,813
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
perhaps one possible solution could be to release a 60117 WLAN Receiver Box with a card reader. ?
Not for all use-cases. You can simply select a loco on the MS2 by pushing in the loco card, even if the loco is already in the system.
A card reader in the track box would cover the "backup" use-case, but not the "quick selection" use-case.



Are you sure about that?
Customer who buy Brawas digital loco for the Märklin tracks follow a card with mfx protocol to read up in the system like MS2 or CS3.
The problem is just that there was complain about Brawas card and Märklin did react this problem too.
Märklin decides to let the market produce decoder to allow mfx protocol in the decoder and not to use cards like Brawas.
However Brawa don´t want to stop use cards for theirs ac locomotives.
Next step is to stop cards in the CS3?
That will be possible when Märklin decides to stop use cards in the system.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#69 Posted : 17 April 2023 18:31:55(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,973
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Customer who buy Brawas digital loco for the Märklin tracks follow a card with mfx protocol to read up in the system like MS2 or CS3.
AFAIK the cards included by BRAWA are for DCC and address 3. No card needed for mfx locos. Cards for mfx locos would have to be individualized, as they must contain the serial number of the decoder. That would make it complicated for BRAWA.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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