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Offline FrankF  
#1 Posted : 18 December 2020 10:56:37(UTC)
FrankF

Denmark   
Joined: 18/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 99
A new Mobilstation 2 ( Art 60667 ) is being presented in Marklin Webnews 280 ( 12 / 2020 ).

The new Mobilstation 2 unit will have WLAN support og can be updated with new Software.
More Information about the new MS2 ( Art 60667 ) in development will come in 3. Quarter of 2021.
The new MS2 is expected to be for sale in 2. Qaurter of 2022 as announced by Marklin.
The Price is announced to be 199,- Euro.

More Information in "German" in this Document.

https://www.maerklin.de/fileadmin/media/journal/Aktuelles/Information_zum_Maerklin_Trix_LGB_Funkhandregler_55017_WebNews.pdf
Frank F / John F
CS3+ 60216 (SW:2.4.0) / CS2 60215 (SW:4.3.0) / MS2 60653/57 (SW:3.148) / PC Version 4.2.1 / RailControl
MDT 3 (SW 3.5.0) - HW: 60970/60971/M60801
H0 C-Track / M7286 (+LDT TT-DEC Decoder) / M7294 (M84) / 76500 / 76510 / 7051
ESU Lokprogrammer (SW 5.2.2) ESU Teststand/Extension
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 18 December 2020 12:40:22(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: FrankF Go to Quoted Post
The Price is announced to be 199,- Euro.
And a CS2 or CS3 is required.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 18 December 2020 15:49:32(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Google translate of the PDF gives

"The RC3 wireless handheld controller L55017 and RC3 wireless receiver L55057 introduced some time ago
are expected by many customers. A delivery with our cooperation partner was still ahead
Aiming for the end of 2020.
Unfortunately we have to inform you that we are removing the two RC3 items from the range. The
prototypes submitted by our partner do not meet the requirements. We have
therefore decided not to pursue the proposed solution any further.
The desire for a radio-based control unit remains unchanged, so we have each other
determined to immediately initiate an in-house development.
The planned new radio control device is based on and therefore based on the familiar operating philosophy
to our successful Mobile Station 2 designed as a radio-based, wireless control device. The
Control is implemented with software based on WLAN and with many other products of the
Märklin / TRIX / LGB Welt compatible.
By using WLAN, several participants in the same WLAN network can use the
Control model railroad. This promises great fun together. The network capability allows
perfect interaction with other network-compatible products from the Märklin / TRIX / LGB
Surroundings. An additionally purchased RC3 receiver (L55057) is not required with this solution
required, a CS2 or CS3 as receiving device and control center must be available. The
Integration of older LGB control devices such as B. the speed controller (L51079) is for analog operation
not possible with this new technology.
The fundamental rebuilding allows the use of a modern processor with reserves
for future extensions. Modern development tools allow us an advanced
Further development. For you this means:
Like all Märklin command stations and control units, the radio control unit can also be updated. This
guarantees you a long service life.
And best of all: We will be selling the new control unit at an introductory price of € 199
(recommended retail price).
We are working flat out on the new development, ask for your understanding
additional delay and thank you in advance for your patience. An idea is in the
3rd quarter 2021 planned, we plan to deliver in the 2nd quarter 2022.
We take the liberty of canceling your existing orders for L55017. The radio receiver L55057
will also be canceled without replacement, as this will no longer be necessary in the future.
We will contact you directly through your sales advisor with detailed information in due course."

So the already announced items aimed at the LGB market haven't come to fruition, so they are starting again! RollEyes RollEyes RollEyes

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Offline kgsjoqvist  
#4 Posted : 19 December 2020 22:01:34(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 754
Location: Täby
BigGrin I like the idea of keeping the same shape and functionality of Mobile Station and making it wireless. As far as I understand the CS2/CS3 has to be connected to a LAN with a WLAN router.
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
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Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 21 December 2020 05:57:45(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,369
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: FrankF Go to Quoted Post
A new Mobilstation 2 ( Art 60667 ) is being presented in Marklin Webnews 280 ( 12 / 2020 ).

Here we go again with guessing names.

I doubt it will be called a "New Mobile Station 2", we have already had one of those

If Marklin have any form, it will start life as a bland , but technically informative, "Mobile Station - 60667" and let the user community confuse itself with its own variety of terms. Personally I would advance the confusion with something like "Mobile Station wireless" MSw or MS-w


Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FrankF Go to Quoted Post
The Price is announced to be 199,- Euro.
And a CS2 or CS3 is required.

For that price it had better include a power supply or rechargeable batteries and a charging cradle.
And while targeted for "WLAN" radio frequency ???? - I would, personally, expect a tetherable option.
(Oh dear - the RJ45 connector has already been misappropriated - lets make a new plug - maybe a docking station for mor Euro.)
Voice recognition would be a wow factor that may try to inflate the value, but would be a waste of time


More to the point, What is the ACTUAL expected differentiator(s) over existing "radio frequency" solutions.
Aside from being (extremely) late to market, Marklin still have to address the need for a companion keyboard or booster capability. Either of which I might invest the 199,- Euro. in well ahead of a radio frequency solution.

So are Marklin pandering to the CS2/CS3 layout users exclusively?

IMHO While I am a preferer of tactile solutions, the rubbery buttons of the existing Mobile Stations, along with their "designed for two hands play station form factor" continue to leave me luke warm.











Peter
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Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 21 December 2020 09:13:29(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
So are Marklin pandering to the CS2/CS3 layout users exclusively?
Who knows.
It seems the RC3 was aimed at the LGB market, developed with Massoth, their supplier for LGB controllers.
Wireless is also a good choice for gauge I.

With "CS3 for all gauges" they also bring the wireless controller for all gauges. But maybe they are primarily aiming at the I/IIm market.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 21 December 2020 16:26:05(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

For that price it had better include a power supply or rechargeable batteries and a charging cradle.
And while targeted for "WLAN" radio frequency ???? - I would, personally, expect a tetherable option.
(Oh dear - the RJ45 connector has already been misappropriated - lets make a new plug - maybe a docking station for mor Euro.)
Voice recognition would be a wow factor that may try to inflate the value, but would be a waste of time


More to the point, What is the ACTUAL expected differentiator(s) over existing "radio frequency" solutions.
Aside from being (extremely) late to market, Marklin still have to address the need for a companion keyboard or booster capability. Either of which I might invest the 199,- Euro. in well ahead of a radio frequency solution.

So are Marklin pandering to the CS2/CS3 layout users exclusively?

IMHO While I am a preferer of tactile solutions, the rubbery buttons of the existing Mobile Stations, along with their "designed for two hands play station form factor" continue to leave me luke warm.


I suspect that marklin will be using existing Wifi systems because I think there will have been a backlash against the price of the RC3 system which required its own base station, so expect to use a standard Wifi router attached to a cs. This way they will also be using the existing code in the cs that handles the PC application, or possibly using a web based application in the new handset (although the users won't realise it as it will be well hidden, just like Linux is well hidden in MacOS).

I would certainly hope that for the price it would include a base station for charging (possibly an NFC system, so no contacts exposed?) but otherwise I think the price is just normal Marklin pricing (i.e. the market will pay any price we put on it).

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Offline kimballthurlow  
#8 Posted : 22 December 2020 00:36:59(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,420
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi all,
RANT mode on.
My CS1 60212 (which I have happily used since about 2008) died the other day.
The screen would not function.
Luckily I had a couple of Mobile Station 1s (60652) handy.
Which actually turn out to be a blessing because MS1 boots up in about 8 seconds, the CS1 took about 3 minutes.
And MFX registers in the same timely manner by comparison.

Now regarding useability of the CS series unless I am gravely mistaken, they all have one major failing.
I am unable to use a device that does not have a windows-style (Xerox?) interface.
To control a digital accessory (routes, signals, solenoids) you are flipped out of the current screen.
And the procedural format is just horrible.
That is all just so backward!!!

Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline vmsysprog  
#9 Posted : 17 January 2023 16:50:53(UTC)
vmsysprog

United States   
Joined: 09/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 54
Based on info in the 2023 New Items, this will not require a CS3 (or CS2). Which is good. Surprised Marklin did not go the Bluetooth route as it seems most manufacturers are doing. A WLAN seems a little bit limiting; if you run a layout at a train show, you need to bring your own WLAN gear or risk using a public LAN. I googled for more info, specifically prices and didn’t find any.

Steve
Offline kiwiAlan  
#10 Posted : 17 January 2023 17:09:47(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: vmsysprog Go to Quoted Post
Based on info in the 2023 New Items, this will not require a CS3 (or CS2). Which is good. Surprised Marklin did not go the Bluetooth route as it seems most manufacturers are doing. A WLAN seems a little bit limiting; if you run a layout at a train show, you need to bring your own WLAN gear or risk using a public LAN. I googled for more info, specifically prices and didn’t find any.

Steve


There is a reason they went the WLAN route, and it is all given in the NI brochure with discussion starting from this post. The RRP prices are in the German brochure (as always).

In short if you have a cs2 or cs3 already hooked up to a WLAN router you can use the wireless ms2 with that without having to get the adapter.

However the WLAN adapter also has the advantage that not only can it be used with a cs2 or cs3, it can also be used plugged into the ms2 trackbox. The second advantage of the wireless adapter is that it handles the IR controllers that come with start sets as additional controllers (although with very limited functionality - I wonder how you select the loco to control).

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#11 Posted : 17 January 2023 17:26:41(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Reading the description in the English NI brochure more carefully, it seems that the 60117 WLAN Receiver Box (to use its official description) is configured using a web page (presumably by a PC connected through the WLAN interface) or by the central station - and that it can be configured to connect to another Access Point - i.e. you could use this box to connect to your home Wifi to make contact with Marklin to do updates.

I presume the web interface also sets up which loco address(es) is controlled by the IR controller(s).

Up to 4 wireless ms2s can be connected through the 60117 interface, I wonder how many can be connected through a standard network LAN that is connected to the LAN port on the central station.

It appears to me that this could be the only controller on an ms2 track box, i.e. you don't need an ms2 to be the master controller.

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H0
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 17 January 2023 17:50:05(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I presume the web interface also sets up which loco address(es) is controlled by the IR controller(s).
I presume the IR controllers are still limited to the four Delta address that can be selected on the controller. But time will tell.

Time and/or the manuals for 60117/60667 will tell how the station can be updated.



Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#13 Posted : 17 January 2023 18:41:14(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I presume the web interface also sets up which loco address(es) is controlled by the IR controller(s).
I presume the IR controllers are still limited to the four Delta address that can be selected on the controller. But time will tell.

Time and/or the manuals for 60117/60667 will tell how the station can be updated.


Yeah, but I suspect the A/B/C/D positions will be assignable to any loco address, just like the 40 positions on an ms2 can be assigned to any loco. In this case the translation would happen inside the 60117.

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Offline H0  
#14 Posted : 17 January 2023 19:21:11(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, but I suspect the A/B/C/D positions will be assignable to any loco address, just like the 40 positions on an ms2 can be assigned to any loco.
That's possible. Just like Central Station does for the sniffer port. Like Central Station does for Mobile Station 1.

I still think the first release won't have it.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Online marklinist5999  
#15 Posted : 17 January 2023 21:17:13(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2,030
Location: Michigan, Troy
Well, could this be "the new digital system" Goofy has been going on about?
Offline Minok  
#16 Posted : 17 January 2023 21:24:22(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,278
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
With the MS2 WiFi version (60667) , the receiver box (60117) on plugs into an existing track box (60116), it can take 4 wireless MS2's.
Will one be able to still use a plugged in MS2 in the other CANBUS port?

And the big question - can one update the MS2 WLAN firmware over the web then.. and push those updates to the wired MS2s?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline kiwiAlan  
#17 Posted : 17 January 2023 23:00:08(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Well, could this be "the new digital system" Goofy has been going on about?


No, it's better than the one he talks about. BigGrin BigGrin

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#18 Posted : 17 January 2023 23:06:03(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
With the MS2 WiFi version (60667) , the receiver box (60117) on plugs into an existing track box (60116), it can take 4 wireless MS2's.
Will one be able to still use a plugged in MS2 in the other CANBUS port?

And the big question - can one update the MS2 WLAN firmware over the web then.. and push those updates to the wired MS2s?


Well, it will have to be able to be updated over the WLAN. But can it talk to Marklin over the home WiFi? that is the question. That is what it will need to do to be ablt to be the base unit to update other ms2s.

It should be possible to plug ultiple ms2 units into the track box. It is allowed to connect up to 10 ms2 units using a pair of the special ms2 connect units, so I would be able to connect up to 5 ms2 units to a track box. The other 5 'slots' I would expect to be taken up by 4 ms2-lan units and an IR port.

Offline Minok  
#19 Posted : 17 January 2023 23:16:00(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,278
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
With the MS2 WiFi version (60667) , the receiver box (60117) on plugs into an existing track box (60116), it can take 4 wireless MS2's.
Will one be able to still use a plugged in MS2 in the other CANBUS port?

And the big question - can one update the MS2 WLAN firmware over the web then.. and push those updates to the wired MS2s?


Well, it will have to be able to be updated over the WLAN. But can it talk to Marklin over the home WiFi? that is the question. That is what it will need to do to be ablt to be the base unit to update other ms2s.

It should be possible to plug ultiple ms2 units into the track box. It is allowed to connect up to 10 ms2 units using a pair of the special ms2 connect units, so I would be able to connect up to 5 ms2 units to a track box. The other 5 'slots' I would expect to be taken up by 4 ms2-lan units and an IR port.



My understanding is that if you have a MS2 plugged into the track box, that this MS2 can then update another MS2 also plugged into the trackbox.
Given the WLAN capable MS that can talk to the CS, one presumes that this WLAN connection will allow updating the MS2 WLAN's firmware as well.
So going from that to the MS WLAN using the LAN to get to Marklin to get updates directly should be doable. (our smartphones can do it, our lightbulbs and automation hubs can do it).
Combining those should be easy enough so that the wired MS2 can be updated through the trackbox talking to the MS2 WLAN.

But thats all an educated guess.

And I'm also assuming to some extent that when Marklin uses WLAN they mean WiFi, without wanting to pay the WiFi log license fees and thus being more generic.
If Marklin chose some other wireless LAN standard than IEEE 802.11 or even worse, rolled their own, then all bets are off.
If they are building a WLAN on top of bluetooth, or some special frequency transponders lord help us.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline H0  
#20 Posted : 17 January 2023 23:19:51(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
My understanding is that if you have a MS2 plugged into the track box, that this MS2 can then update another MS2 also plugged into the trackbox.
I have no idea how much free memory there is left on the old MS2. Is it enough to store the firmware for the WLAN MS2 and the new connector box?

In the worst case you need a CS3 or a WLAN MS2 to pass the update to another WLAN MS2. Time will tell.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline kiwiAlan  
#21 Posted : 18 January 2023 00:01:26(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post


And I'm also assuming to some extent that when Marklin uses WLAN they mean WiFi, without wanting to pay the WiFi log license fees and thus being more generic.
If Marklin chose some other wireless LAN standard than IEEE 802.11 or even worse, rolled their own, then all bets are off.
If they are building a WLAN on top of bluetooth, or some special frequency transponders lord help us.


No, it has to be standard 802.11 as they specifically state the ms2-lan can be used to connect to a cs2/3 over a standard wifi router if that is the setup you already have.

Reading through the English text there is also an implication that the WLAN receiver can be configured to attach a cs2/3 to a home wifi network, which would allow the cs to update from the Marklin server.

But nowhere in the text is there any mention of the ms2-lan being able to contact the Marklin server. This may be a feature to be made available at a later date.
Offline owidgie  
#22 Posted : 18 January 2023 00:53:57(UTC)
owidgie

United States   
Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 135
It's funny how different people think about different things. When I saw the wireless MS2 in the brochure, I thought "Cool".

Then my second thought was "where am I going to misplace it?"

The corded MS2 has the virtue of never getting lost if it is plugged in.

This is just my silly brain talking here BigGrin

Rick
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Offline Minok  
#23 Posted : 18 January 2023 01:32:59(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,278
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: owidgie Go to Quoted Post
It's funny how different people think about different things. When I saw the wireless MS2 in the brochure, I thought "Cool".

Then my second thought was "where am I going to misplace it?"

The corded MS2 has the virtue of never getting lost if it is plugged in.

This is just my silly brain talking here BigGrin

Rick


Indeed. ;)

My initial though was : brilliant , now I can control my Christmas tree train while sitting in the couch across the room and not have to get up to start/stop/Play sounds/etc. yeah, an expensive convenience , but then I also solve your problem as it will maybe be packed away in the box with the Christmas train and it’s tracks every January 7th.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline H0  
#24 Posted : 18 January 2023 08:04:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,804
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: owidgie Go to Quoted Post
When I saw the wireless MS2 in the brochure, I thought "Cool".
When I saw that it uses AAA cells I wondered how long they will last.
Uhlenbrock Daisy II has rechargeable cells and power can be plugged in to charge them.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline mbarreto  
#25 Posted : 18 January 2023 09:40:14(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,074
When used with a CS2/CS3/CS3+ I don´t know if the mobile phone app isn't a better option.
In the MS2 WLAN there are the knobs for those that prefer them...
Anyway it is always good to have more options.

Regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Online bph  
#26 Posted : 18 January 2023 11:49:45(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 677
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: owidgie Go to Quoted Post
When I saw the wireless MS2 in the brochure, I thought "Cool".
When I saw that it uses AAA cells I wondered how long they will last.
Uhlenbrock Daisy II has rechargeable cells and power can be plugged in to charge them.


I would not be surprised if it's a future-proofing regarding some EU regulations. and a rechargeable AAA should work fine, eg https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0915M2BM8/?tag=thewire06-20&linkCode=xm2&ascsubtag=AwEAAAAAAAAAAkhp&th=1

could they have included a built-in USB charger circuit and forgot to write it? does it support 3,7v 10440 batteries?........

Offline kiwiAlan  
#27 Posted : 18 January 2023 13:57:18(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: owidgie Go to Quoted Post
When I saw the wireless MS2 in the brochure, I thought "Cool".
When I saw that it uses AAA cells I wondered how long they will last.
Uhlenbrock Daisy II has rechargeable cells and power can be plugged in to charge them.


I would not be surprised if it's a future-proofing regarding some EU regulations. and a rechargeable AAA should work fine, eg https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0915M2BM8/?tag=thewire06-20&linkCode=xm2&ascsubtag=AwEAAAAAAAAAAkhp&th=1

could they have included a built-in USB charger circuit and forgot to write it? does it support 3,7v 10440 batteries?........



I'm wondering about battery life as well. I think it is going to be a case of two sets of rechargables, one set in the controller, one set in the charger.

I was surprised they haven't gone for a rechargable in the device, with a Mini-USB and a cable to plug it into the USB port on the cs2/3 to recharge ... RollEyes , or if they had worked it right a port on the WLAN receiver ...
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#28 Posted : 18 January 2023 15:45:58(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Just had a look at the Marklin pages for the 60667 and 60117 which yield some interesting new information ...

Both units say "Available exclusively in the countries of the European Union, in UK, USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand." so that is where the WLAN is approved.

Also the Mobile Station WLAN claims it can be operated with one hand using a handle that is provided with it that clips to the back. Be interested to see how that works beyond just adjusting the speed. I can't quite envision how one could operate a function button to blow a whistle or uncouple or .... while holding the handle.

Also the stop button lights up in stop mode, and it seems things on the screen rotate to match the orientation of the unit.

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Online bph  
#29 Posted : 18 January 2023 18:49:14(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 677
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Just had a look at the Marklin pages for the 60667 and 60117 which yield some interesting new information ...

Also the Mobile Station WLAN claims it can be operated with one hand using a handle that is provided with it that clips to the back. Be interested to see how that works beyond just adjusting the speed. I can't quite envision how one could operate a function button to blow a whistle or uncouple or .... while holding the handle.

Also the stop button lights up in stop mode, and it seems things on the screen rotate to match the orientation of the unit.



I also noticed the one-hand operation, but not sure how practical it really is, even with the rotating screen. Maybe one in each hand.......Cool

Edited by user 18 January 2023 22:58:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Minok  
#30 Posted : 18 January 2023 19:40:44(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,278
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: owidgie Go to Quoted Post
When I saw the wireless MS2 in the brochure, I thought "Cool".
When I saw that it uses AAA cells I wondered how long they will last.
Uhlenbrock Daisy II has rechargeable cells and power can be plugged in to charge them.


I think the path to using AAA's is the right choice, for a couple of reasons.

1) If the unit comes with built in rechargable batteries, then like smartphones and laptops, after 5-10 years the batteries stop holding charges will and replacing the built-in batteries is always a pfaff.
2) With standard AAA's, if you can, get NiMH rechargables (like the eneloops) and just use those - problem solved.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Online bph  
#31 Posted : 18 January 2023 23:00:28(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 677
There is a short video of the new MS WLAN on the Märklin 60667 german product page, "hidden" away under the second product image.

the video has been added to the Märklin youtube channel

Edited by user 26 January 2023 21:00:19(UTC)  | Reason: youtube video added

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Offline kiwiAlan  
#32 Posted : 18 January 2023 23:37:03(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
There is a short video of the new MS WLAN on the Märklin 60667 product page, "hidden" away under the second product image.

Direct video link https://static.maerklin....b46466042c1673679659.mp4


Hmm, only on the German page, not the English page ... Angry Mad

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bph
Offline Minok  
#33 Posted : 18 January 2023 23:48:13(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,278
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Just had a look at the Marklin pages for the 60667 and 60117 which yield some interesting new information ...

Also the Mobile Station WLAN claims it can be operated with one hand using a handle that is provided with it that clips to the back. Be interested to see how that works beyond just adjusting the speed. I can't quite envision how one could operate a function button to blow a whistle or uncouple or .... while holding the handle.

Also the stop button lights up in stop mode, and it seems things on the screen rotate to match the orientation of the unit.



I also noticed the one-hand operation, but not sure how practical it really is, even with the rotating screen. Maybe one in each hand.......Cool


Here, thanks to bph's video link, is what the 'handle' looks like, similar to what is on some smartphones in the world (as add on).

Capture.PNG (2,171kb) downloaded 355 time(s).

UserPostedImage

To note, when one holds the MS2 WLAN in the hand sideways (intended for thumb operations as is seen in bph's linked Marklin video) - the display also rotates in the screen to stay upright.


Capture.PNG (1,316kb) downloaded 353 time(s).
UserPostedImage
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline nhumps  
#34 Posted : 19 January 2023 03:13:03(UTC)
nhumps

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 75
Location: Wellington
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Just had a look at the Marklin pages for the 60667 and 60117 which yield some interesting new information ...

Capture.PNG (1,316kb) downloaded 353 time(s).
UserPostedImage


It appears the screen shows battery/wifi signal too. Batteries look half charged, maybe its how many practise takes they guy had to make for the demo before getting it right BigGrin

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Offline clapcott  
#35 Posted : 24 January 2023 22:18:57(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,369
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
My "perception" of all of this is actually more towards the 60117 (WLAN Receiver Box) and not necessarily the WLAN bit in the first instance

Up until now there has been little ROI (return on investment) for the IR remotes / control Stick from the various MyWorld starter sets.
Originally these where "power to the track" options , which morphed to the "Direct to Loco/Battery powered" solutions.

Either way , if the aim was to "move customers up" by building on the tools already at hand, the only option has been to discard the IR remote and invest in a 60113(grey)/60116(black) (Connector Box/TrackBox/RailBox plus power supply) and a Mobile Station (60653(grey)/60657(black))

At least now you only need the Connector Box (and power supply) along with the 60117 to migrate while still using the IR control devices.
(Depending on your starting point, the power supply might also get another lease of life)
OR
just the 60117 if Dad/Granddad already has a CS.

I am not saying that a Mobile Station (60653/60657 or 60667) is not on the horizon for migration, however I do think there is something to be said for maintaining the Control Stick type of control for a certain group of users (children?) while allowing them to mature into the "big" layout of ,say, dad or granddad.

Extending the "Controlled Access/Parental Control" line of thought, it would be nice if even the current mobile station 60653/60657 devices were able to be managed like the legacy 60651/60652 mobile stations can be. i.e. allocate a specific loco per unit (or a limited roster).
Personally I have thought Marklin missed an opportunity for those wanting to operate in TowerControl mode by not making the UI more "appropriate"

Back to the 60117 and how it might be configured. It is hoped that there is an enhanced means to map an IR channel to any available Locomotive address.
I use the term "hope" but confidence is low - not least because , at first glance, a mobile station (with latest software) would be needed to manage this.
I am not going to start guessing how the button on the unit is intended to work other than to think that it would be a very limited WiFi registration only.

Jumping to the other end of the spectrum, the 60117 appears to offer a means for the 60667, Mobile Station - WLAN, to connect to a CS2/CS3 without the CS2/CS3 actually having a network connection itself.
Yes, I know the words say you can connect the 60667 to a CS2/CS3 though an existing WLAN router if you have one, however if you do not (e.g. out in the garage or at a exhibition) this adds another "contained environment" configuration option.

Extending this further, if the 60117 is in part just a mini router, albeit with a /28 (sic) mask, and the protocol remains UDP - CAN over ethernet, then any WLAN device might connect to it.





Peter
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Offline clapcott  
#36 Posted : 24 January 2023 22:26:54(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,369
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
This is downright cynical of Marklin
UserPostedImage

Not since the 60651/2 has a mobile station provided power to the track and thus been the limiting factor of power.
The power limitation is that of either the Track/Connector Box or Central Station
Peter
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Offline clapcott  
#37 Posted : 24 January 2023 22:29:19(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,369
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Wondering if the LocoCard is being retired - I would be disappointed it is - scrolling through 40 slots is a big turn off
Peter
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#38 Posted : 25 January 2023 00:30:18(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

At least now you only need the Connector Box (and power supply) along with the 60117 to migrate while still using the IR control devices.

I don't beleive that is the intended migration path. My understanding is the migration path is to get a complete ms2 system and add a 60117 to allow continued use of an IR controller, so it doesn't become discarded - but either path becomes an expensive way of connecting an IR controller at nearly 150 Euro RRP for the 60117.

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

...
just the 60117 if Dad/Granddad already has a CS.

Well, especially if grandchild is taking his train to operate on Opas layout. Take the train and controller.

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

...
Personally I have thought Marklin missed an opportunity for those wanting to operate in TowerControl mode by not making the UI more "appropriate"

I don't understand what you mean by 'tower control' here.

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

Back to the 60117 and how it might be configured. It is hoped that there is an enhanced means to map an IR channel to any available Locomotive address.
I use the term "hope" but confidence is low - not least because , at first glance, a mobile station (with latest software) would be needed to manage this.


Well, it is a wifi device, and the advertising blurb does say it is configured by web page or cs2/3. So I would expect any laptop/tablet/cellphone would be able to access the web page to do the configuring without requiring any other wifi system in the picture. From the description the 60117 clearly operates as an access point.

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

I am not going to start guessing how the button on the unit is intended to work other than to think that it would be a very limited WiFi registration only.


Which button on which unit?

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

Jumping to the other end of the spectrum, the 60117 appears to offer a means for the 60667, Mobile Station - WLAN, to connect to a CS2/CS3 without the CS2/CS3 actually having a network connection itself.


Correct, the 60117 clearly operates as an Access Point.

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post

Yes, I know the words say you can connect the 60667 to a CS2/CS3 though an existing WLAN router if you have one, however if you do not (e.g. out in the garage or at a exhibition) this adds another "contained environment" configuration option.

Extending this further, if the 60117 is in part just a mini router, albeit with a /28 (sic) mask, and the protocol remains UDP - CAN over ethernet, then any WLAN device might connect to it.


I'm not familiar with a /28 mask, could you explain please?

I had wondered if the 60117 might make it possible to use the Marklin cs2 PC program to connect to an ms2 track box. It will be interesting to see if that is possible.

But the other thing that seems to be inferred in the advertising blurb is that the 60117 can be configured as a wifi bridge, so you can connect your cs2/3 to the home wifi. I haven't nailed this aspect down yet, but presumably one of the options on the web setup will allow this to happen - maybe only when being set up by a cs2/3 rather than by web page over wifi. For many people this will simplify updating their cs2/3 instead of having to disconnect it and take it to the router to make the internet connection.

The other item that is not clear is how many IR controllers can be used with it. Is it just one, or could it be as many as four (with the attendant problems of IR interference between the units)? They say that up to four ms2-WLAN units can be used plus IR, which would, on the face of it, make five connections, corresponding to the five ms2 controllers that can be connected through a 60122 MS2 Hub, but does the 60117 just allow 5 devices to connect, i.e. the number of IR controllers and ms2-WLAN total up to 5, or could one use 4 of each? The write up is not clear on this point. Maybe one could have 4+4 if there is no ms2 Hub connected to the other port on the track box, or maybe an ms2 Hub with only two ms2s connected, to give the allowable total of 10 devices. Still some unanswered questions in this area, and probably only the guy developing the software for the 60117 knows the real answer.




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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#39 Posted : 25 January 2023 11:48:59(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,520
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I'm not familiar with a /28 mask, could you explain please?


Your standard Class C IP address range uses a 24 bit subnet mask (255.255.255.0) so because all 8 bits in the last octet are available we can have a maximum of 256 available addresses (less 2 for the network and broadcast addresses).

A 28 bit subnet mask is expressed as 255.255.255.240 and the range of addresses in the subnet is limited to 16 addresses

A 29 bit subnet mask is expressed as 255.255.255.248 and the range of addresses in the subnet is limited to 8 addresses

And so on until you get to a 32 bit mask (255.255.255.255) and because all the the 32 bits are used in the mask there are no bits available for addresses.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#40 Posted : 25 January 2023 13:01:51(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 7,395
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
I'm not familiar with a /28 mask, could you explain please?


Your standard Class C IP address range uses a 24 bit subnet mask (255.255.255.0) so because all 8 bits in the last octet are available we can have a maximum of 256 available addresses (less 2 for the network and broadcast addresses).

A 28 bit subnet mask is expressed as 255.255.255.240 and the range of addresses in the subnet is limited to 16 addresses

A 29 bit subnet mask is expressed as 255.255.255.248 and the range of addresses in the subnet is limited to 8 addresses

And so on until you get to a 32 bit mask (255.255.255.255) and because all the the 32 bits are used in the mask there are no bits available for addresses.


Ah, OK, now I get the meaning. Thank you.
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