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Offline Alsterstreek  
#251 Posted : 20 June 2021 14:18:49(UTC)
Alsterstreek

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Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
Testing the Limits:
AD243A8C-C489-495D-834C-5E4FEB646159.jpeg
24640, 2x 2471x, 6x 24071, 2x 24077, 2x 24206, 2x 24107, 2x 2461x, 24130 & 24115.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#252 Posted : 20 June 2021 16:21:00(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,034
Location: Michigan, Troy
A good reversing yard.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#253 Posted : 20 June 2021 18:18:00(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,352
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
A good reversing yard.


I was thinking that if the two points on the RH side were exchanged, so the lines diverged, then it called be called Rome.

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Offline revmox  
#254 Posted : 21 June 2021 02:21:53(UTC)
revmox

Australia   
Joined: 26/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Australia, East Maitland, NSW
As a beginner I occasionally find myself stuck for all those short C track pieces needed for a layout. My supplier has them posted almost immediately but it can still be a few days before they arrive and then even more days before I get a chance to use them.

This is what I do when I’m stuck and impatient. I can have the track I need in an hour or so and custom lengths are easy too. My apologies to the experts who’ve seen it all before.

In this case a 24188, 24094 and 24071 were needed to make 353.3mm as shown. This can be cut from two the 24188s shown down below. Try to avoid cutting at the webs which can be in the way in the joining process – juggle the pieces used to avoid this if you can.
Fig 1a.jpg

Cut the plastic tabs off one end of the track that will stay full length. Use a sharp knife to remove them and a small file to smooth the area. This will join with the cut end of the other track.
Fig 2.jpg

Cut the track to be shortened. I usually leave 0.5 mm extra and trim back from there to allow for any little slips while cutting. A small saw or cutting wheel works well – but don’t melt the plastic. For the final product to look good the end must then be made straight and square.
Fig 3.jpg

It is also possible to mill the end of C track if you have the equipment and go slowly!
Fig 4b.jpg

Align the pieces on a level surface with a thin straight edge against the rails as a guide. Connect the two pieces electrically and, with them firmly weighted in the correct place, join them with 5 minute Araldite (which really takes over 20 minutes to set). Be careful not to mound up the Araldite to the point where the track will not sit flat when turned over. I’m going to try that UV instant setting glue to try to speed things up next time.

There is possibility that some Araldite might leak through the gap between the two rails if they haven’t been finished flat and square. In this case just use a tiny bit of Araldite to pre-seal the gap and allow it to firm up before doing the bulk application.
Fig 5.jpg

Check the finished item. Make sure it all sits flat, trim any excess Araldite. Minor leakage of Araldite can sometimes be hidden by using a grey felt pen. This is what you get – the top one is with stock pieces, the bottom one is the creation.
Fig 6.jpg
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Offline hvc  
#255 Posted : 21 June 2021 02:49:37(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: revmox Go to Quoted Post


This is what I do when I’m stuck and impatient
<snip>

It is also possible to mill the end of C track if you have the equipment and go slowly!



Nice! Maybe I need to start planning a C-track mill for the garage...

- Herman
- Herman
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Offline hvc  
#256 Posted : 21 June 2021 02:53:16(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Testing the Limits:
AD243A8C-C489-495D-834C-5E4FEB646159.jpeg
24640, 2x 2471x, 6x 24071, 2x 24077, 2x 24206, 2x 24107, 2x 2461x, 24130 & 24115.


Testing the limits of C-track bendiness! Beautiful and useful. Here's what I think you did - rotated 45 degrees just because the part numbers are more legible on the plan this way around...

Screen Shot 2021-06-21 at 10.54.32 AM.jpg
- Herman
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Offline hvc  
#257 Posted : 21 June 2021 03:33:15(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 341
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
The addition of a water tower creates a new super-hero, Train Man...

Screen Shot 2021-06-21 at 11.30.55 AM.jpg

And a schlanke version, with the exception of the '206 pieces, perhaps for mainline use...

Screen Shot 2021-06-21 at 11.25.55 AM.jpg
- Herman
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#258 Posted : 21 June 2021 11:53:14(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,091
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
..

And a schlanke version, with the exception of the '206 pieces, perhaps for mainline use...

Screen Shot 2021-06-21 at 11.25.55 AM.jpg


Love it!

Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#259 Posted : 21 June 2021 15:22:55(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,352
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
The addition of a water tower creates a new super-hero, Train Man...


ha ha, I like it ... ThumpUp ThumpUp

Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post

And a schlanke version, with the exception of the '206 pieces, perhaps for mainline use...


Oh, I like that one too, with the larger radius. ThumpUp

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hvc
Offline Alsterstreek  
#260 Posted : 22 June 2021 11:13:01(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
The addition of a water tower creates a new super-hero, Train Man...

That qualifies for both, a new avatar and member name.
BigGrin
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hvc
Offline revmox  
#261 Posted : 04 July 2021 12:50:32(UTC)
revmox

Australia   
Joined: 26/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Australia, East Maitland, NSW
In my post on 21 June I described how I made custom C track lengths. Part of the process was using Araldite to join the track pieces together. It then occurred to me that there really wasn’t any need to join the pieces together if they were going to be firmly screwed down – so long as they stayed aligned. So I 3D printed (a Christmas present from my good wife) some alignment pieces for this purpose. I made one to match the end of a regular C track piece and one to join two cut pieces. I also discovered that a simple grinding wheel jig that I made some time ago can be used to do a super quick trim and square of a cut C track piece if you are careful.

The pictures below show crazy plan B …

C-1.jpgC-2.jpgC-3.jpgC-4.jpg
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#262 Posted : 04 July 2021 13:27:19(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,352
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: revmox Go to Quoted Post
So I 3D printed (a Christmas present from my good wife) some alignment pieces for this purpose. I made one to match the end of a regular C track piece and one to join two cut pieces.


Are you prepared to post the file for these pieces? I would appreciate a copy please.

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Offline revmox  
#263 Posted : 04 July 2021 15:08:18(UTC)
revmox

Australia   
Joined: 26/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Australia, East Maitland, NSW
I think these are the links for the 3D joiners on TinkerCAD- hope they work.
I've made them public access under my username of revmox.
I'm certainly no expert on 3D design, feel free to fix/improve them and post your efforts.

https://www.tinkercad.com/things/lCxcJrnARyj

https://www.tinkercad.com/things/48reQiRdyEe
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Offline revmox  
#264 Posted : 15 July 2021 08:53:52(UTC)
revmox

Australia   
Joined: 26/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Australia, East Maitland, NSW
Hello everyone,

I've just finished laying my first small C track layout. Point control is the next task.

I don't want to go the digital and decoders way - I just want to use the old style push buttons. I'm not bothered in any way by current technology, I have over 50 years electronic, electrical and programming experience (going back to punched paper tape and teletype days). It just isn't how I want to run my trains.

There's only 15 points and 1 double slip in my small layout and I realise that I might have to reconsider if things grow.

Anyway, my question is about the manual buttons used to control the points. To Marklin or not to Marklin? Are the 72752 "Turnout Control Boxes" a good way to go? Is there better way to do this? Several Marklin layouts I've seen had switches from different manufacturers or rows of common push buttons from the local electronics store - Jaycar here in Australia.

Any advice before I commit to particular system would be appreciated.

Cheers and thanks ...
Offline Alsterstreek  
#265 Posted : 15 July 2021 12:39:24(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: revmox Go to Quoted Post
Hello everyone,

I've just finished laying my first small C track layout. Point control is the next task.

I don't want to go the digital and decoders way - I just want to use the old style push buttons. I'm not bothered in any way by current technology, I have over 50 years electronic, electrical and programming experience (going back to punched paper tape and teletype days). It just isn't how I want to run my trains.

There's only 15 points and 1 double slip in my small layout and I realise that I might have to reconsider if things grow.

Anyway, my question is about the manual buttons used to control the points. To Marklin or not to Marklin? Are the 72752 "Turnout Control Boxes" a good way to go? Is there better way to do this? Several Marklin layouts I've seen had switches from different manufacturers or rows of common push buttons from the local electronics store - Jaycar here in Australia.

Any advice before I commit to particular system would be appreciated.

Cheers and thanks ...

Valid question, but wrong thread. As explained by Kimballthurlow in the initial post, it is about knowledge and ideas on Marklin C track.

Your point control question deserves a dedicated new thread, e.g. under "General Topics/General MRR", also to increase the chances to trigger replies...
Offline revmox  
#266 Posted : 15 July 2021 13:42:45(UTC)
revmox

Australia   
Joined: 26/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Australia, East Maitland, NSW
Standard C track spacing can a problem when space is really limited. There's lots of hacking going on here but I guess it is possible if storage is a problem. I'm not sure whether the idea could also be used with the three way point. C track hacking is mentioned on the forum but where to cut isn't often shown.

hack track.bmp (1,206kb) downloaded 23 time(s).

hack track extra.bmp (2,485kb) downloaded 16 time(s).
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#267 Posted : 15 July 2021 16:15:02(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
I allowed myself to convert the two attachments to PNG format for instant visibility.

:0)

hack track.pnghack track extra.png
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#268 Posted : 15 July 2021 16:31:21(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,352
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
I allowed myself to convert the two attachments to PNG format for instant visibility.

:0)

hack track.pnghack track extra.png


I can't work out why they have used R1 curves to come off an R2 point. I guess it makes the tracks slightly closer together, but I haven't tried to workout just how much difference it would make.

Offline PacoM  
#269 Posted : 15 July 2021 21:22:22(UTC)
PacoM

Spain   
Joined: 20/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 30
I guess the reason is, the smaller the radius, the shorter the length.
If you compare with post 216, where I use 24711/12 + 24912, the length there is 471.6, but only 282.5 in revmox/Alsterstreek solution, a difference of 189.1mm, similar to a 24188 track. That means longer space for trains in each end. My distance between track centers is though slightly smaller, 49.5 instead of 51.7.
As long as you are satisfied with the way trains look in the S curve, perfect.
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Offline revmox  
#270 Posted : 16 July 2021 07:26:31(UTC)
revmox

Australia   
Joined: 26/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Australia, East Maitland, NSW
Here's the R2 version. It's not as compact. There's not a really handy stock track length to balance the legs but a 24236 will make a passing loop.

Before, when I said storage track, I should have been clearer and said hidden storage track where an R1/R2 mix wouldn't be an issue - to me anyway.

I'll give laser cutting C track a try - just because I'm curious to see how it will go. The metal cutting seen in the picture looks violent but mirror smooth precision cuts are possible. Oxygen is used when cutting some metals. Compressed air is used for plastics. The C track metal and plastic combination might take some fine tuning. You could cut a kit for the R2 version in a few seconds.

Hack track 24230.jpg
Resized_20210716_094939.jpeg
Resized_20210716_095033.jpeg
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#271 Posted : 16 July 2021 11:06:14(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: PacoM Go to Quoted Post
I guess the reason is, the smaller the radius, the shorter the length.
If you compare with post 216, where I use 24711/12 + 24912, the length there is 471.6, but only 282.5 in revmox/Alsterstreek solution, a difference of 189.1mm, similar to a 24188 track. That means longer space for trains in each end. My distance between track centers is though slightly smaller, 49.5 instead of 51.7.
As long as you are satisfied with the way trains look in the S curve, perfect.
Only a revmox solution, I just converted and "re-posted" his - interesting! - images.

:0)

Another factor is that the R2-R1 S-curve consists of 20.75° curves, thus the swings of a train are less violent than in the case of the ususal 24,3° R2 curve consist.
Offline Alsterstreek  
#272 Posted : 16 July 2021 11:49:27(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
How about cutting the 2461x turnout profile directly at the frog (and replace the removed curved section by a short straight section)? This results in a 16° "angle" which can be offset by a 24115/24215/24315 15° curve (the 1° difference does not matter in practice as it can be absorbed by the track pieces involved). The inserted straight piece defuses the dreaded S-curve even further.

m15g.png
Source: Miba 1998-11
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Offline PacoM  
#273 Posted : 16 July 2021 13:19:51(UTC)
PacoM

Spain   
Joined: 20/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 30
Interesting as an original idea. Surely something comes out of it, I think, provided that further development is able to specify the separation between tracks and the matching pieces to join the tracks at the other end.
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Offline PacoM  
#274 Posted : 16 July 2021 19:04:47(UTC)
PacoM

Spain   
Joined: 20/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 30
Here is a simulation, supposing the turnout is cut at 15º
Turnout cut 15o.jpg
SORRY, there is an obvious mistake at the right of the bottom image. This is the right one
Turnout cut 15o-2.jpg
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Offline revmox  
#275 Posted : 17 July 2021 02:18:39(UTC)
revmox

Australia   
Joined: 26/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Australia, East Maitland, NSW
24612A.jpg

I get these angles and separations from my dodgy maths.

24.3 degrees is stock with separation of 77.5mm
20.5 degrees as per my last post with 55.4mm
18.83 degrees is of interest because it can use a standard 24094 in the straight leg to give equal length to curved and straight branches and separation of 46.9mm.
18.33 degrees is of interest because the cut misses the sleepers and separation is 44.4mm - that's only 5mm or so between track beds - would you want to go any closer?
At those sort of angles every 10mm of straight track inserted between the curves gives about 3mm greater separation.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#276 Posted : 17 July 2021 13:26:41(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,352
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: revmox Go to Quoted Post

18.33 degrees is of interest because the cut misses the sleepers


It also has the advantage that there is enough rail left to use a rail joiner without interfering with the frog when fitting the next piece of track.

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#277 Posted : 18 July 2021 00:31:43(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: revmox Go to Quoted Post

18.33 degrees is of interest because the cut misses the sleepers


It also has the advantage that there is enough rail left to use a rail joiner without interfering with the frog when fitting the next piece of track.


But it has the disadvantage that there are no 18.33 degree curve segments around.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#278 Posted : 18 July 2021 00:33:30(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 6,352
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: revmox Go to Quoted Post

18.33 degrees is of interest because the cut misses the sleepers


It also has the advantage that there is enough rail left to use a rail joiner without interfering with the frog when fitting the next piece of track.


But it has the disadvantage that there are no 18.33 degree curve segments around.


As my boss used to say "I'll get the Black & Decker out" BigGrin

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Offline revmox  
#279 Posted : 18 July 2021 05:07:24(UTC)
revmox

Australia   
Joined: 26/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Australia, East Maitland, NSW
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: revmox Go to Quoted Post

18.33 degrees is of interest because the cut misses the sleepers


It also has the advantage that there is enough rail left to use a rail joiner without interfering with the frog when fitting the next piece of track.


But it has the disadvantage that there are no 18.33 degree curve segments around.


As my boss used to say "I'll get the Black & Decker out" BigGrin



There’s also no 18.33 degree points. If you’re crazy enough to go around hacking a perfectly good point to pieces then slaughtering a curve shouldn’t be a worry.

I kind of wonder if it is somehow just plain wrong to be mangling Marklin stuff this way. I’ll bet there are purists out there who would be horrified and would like to see us banned.

Leviticus 18:28, AMPC
“Whoever commits any of these abominations shall be cut off from among his people.” BigGrin Confused


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Offline kimballthurlow  
#280 Posted : 11 August 2021 00:37:42(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,091
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hello,

I have borrowed this plan from member GenDemo in another post.
It is his elegant solution for fitting a double slip 24624 into two tangential R1 circles.

Tangential circles using a 24624 double slip

If you wish to see a larger image, here is the link to the original post.
GenDemo double slip ideas


Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#281 Posted : 11 August 2021 00:48:11(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,091
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hello,

Here is another reminder of a great tool to fill in gaps up to 1 metre in straight C track arrangements.

This Table shows C track combinations to achieve a given length.
C track straight lengths

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline Johnvr  
#282 Posted : 11 August 2021 10:12:09(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,236
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi all,

Here are a couple of ideas for a figure-of-8 :

There is one 24207 of 7.5* and 8x 24106 of 5.7* in the small print in each bow.
Figure-of-8.jpg

Or we can make one like this, using one 24224 of 24.3* and 5x 24106 of 5.7* in each bow.
Figure-of-8 ver2.jpg

I used a mathematical table approach to calculate optimum angles for the bow, and I used the C-Track measure to fit the straight pieces.
It's not a perfect fit due to the odd angle which is used in C-Track, but it's the best fit.

RegardsBigGrin
John
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Offline Johnvr  
#283 Posted : 11 August 2021 10:24:50(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,236
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Just one more idea :
Using R2 curves on either end makes it a very gracious pattern :

Figure-of-8 ver3.jpg

Regards
John
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Offline GenDemo  
#284 Posted : 11 August 2021 14:13:29(UTC)
GenDemo

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Victoria, Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Testing the Limits:
AD243A8C-C489-495D-834C-5E4FEB646159.jpeg
24640, 2x 2471x, 6x 24071, 2x 24077, 2x 24206, 2x 24107, 2x 2461x, 24130 & 24115.


That is FACINATING!!!!!
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Offline PacoM  
#285 Posted : 16 August 2021 18:24:50(UTC)
PacoM

Spain   
Joined: 20/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 30
Johnvr, if you really likte the "8" shape, here is a design that fits standard tracks with only small misalignments thay will pose no building
problems. Surely there are other possibilities.

8.jpg
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Offline PacoM  
#286 Posted : 16 August 2021 19:59:03(UTC)
PacoM

Spain   
Joined: 20/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 30
... such as the perfect and symmetric version8 bis.jpg
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#287 Posted : 25 August 2021 19:43:10(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
A space-saving and daring combination which I employed in the shadow station area of my former layout Humbug-Dummtor. Actually an iteration of the asymmetrical wye presented by Kimball above.

Another iteration made possible by the advent of 24315.
diamond2018wye.png

I just tried this combination with real C track segments:
2021wye.png
The small gap between the 24130 and the 24206 doesn´t matter in reality.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#288 Posted : 09 September 2021 17:25:23(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,196
Location: Southwesternmost
If you want this (lower left straight gap between turnout and diamond crossing to filled by customised track segment)...
IMG_0776.jpg
you have to do that:
IMG_0768.jpg
IMG_0771.jpg
The resulting C track segment counts 14 sleepers (versus the standard 24094 with 13 sleepers). 24094 would have been too short and 2x 24064 too long.
image1.jpeg
The flip side.
DC77FD25-089C-4D96-8216-249CA9D9E56C.jpeg
(Never mind the inverted cable colour code.)

Edited by user 10 September 2021 10:48:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline PacoM  
#289 Posted : 09 September 2021 21:15:26(UTC)
PacoM

Spain   
Joined: 20/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 30
Once you begin cutting ... you go on. I intended to develop my only track dedicated toNorte reforma.jpg locomotives that ended with a bumper, but could not add a parallel track because the shelf is too narrow. I designed a solution that allowed moving an engine through both ends, so that more than one engine could be placed there. The commercial tracks matched, but I needed to buy a number of them (yellow coloured in the central scheme of the image). Finally, the lower design showed that, if I only bought the turnout, the 24912 curve before in its place (red in the upper scheme) could be cut in two and glued to form a soft "S". The connection to the 24236 track could not be made exact, so that the trick would be cutting a bit of the 24172 track I already had too. So I did, glued the three parts together and, with the proper electric connections underneath, everything worked. I cannot add a photograph just now becacuse I am not at home, but you can easily imagine the result. Regards
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Offline PacoM  
#290 Posted : 11 September 2021 01:01:59(UTC)
PacoM

Spain   
Joined: 20/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 30
Now, the actual look

DepositoLoco.jpg
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