Hi all

I am new to this forum, and after being absent from model trains for more then 35 years, just getting back into it...
Name is Jean-Pierre by the way....

I do have a question on what would be the best way forward for me.
This is what i have:
- Layout with M-rails
- some analog locs
- 2 delta locs (Marklin #3466 & #3467)
- Analog transformer Marklin # 37547A
- Delta transformer & controller combo # 67025 & 67030
- Marklin 60760 - High Performance Digital Retrofit Set

Now my question, if i update the delta lok with the 5 pole motor only from the kit (and keep the original delta decoder) will the lok's performance improve on the ANALOG TRACK using the 37547 transformer?
If i also change the decoder from the kit, will it still drive using the 37547 transformer?
If i instead power up the track with the delta combo, can i still use the analog loks on the layout, without retrofitting them?

regards
Jean-Pierre

Hi Jean Peirre,

You cannot use the five pole motor from the 60760 with the delta decoder. With the items you have listed, I would use the delta controller initially to get going, but as you upgrade the analogue locos it would be easiest to use the the various marklin kits that they make for different locos, and eventually upgrade to a newer controller, eg MS3 or MS2, to get the best performance from your trains.

Cheers....

Mike

If your plan is to go digital, and you are planning to build a larger layout over time, then sell off the older gear and use the funds to purchase new or used digital stuff that is made in the last 10 or so years. The older stuff will work, if you do conversion work on some of it, but thats time and money that won't get you a better result other than having the older loco still running - if your emotionally attached to them for personal reasons. If your not fully committed and just seeing if you still have the interest and/or like spending the time tinkering to get the conversions done, then converting may be the better option till your sure, but thats a sunk cost (time and resources of upgrading the old loco).

Hi Jean-Pierre.
When I saw you were from Aruba, I had no idea where it was, so I googled it. I guess from where you live, you are a long way from regular postal deliveries etc. Looks like a great place to live. Take it easy and enjoy the trains. Keep asking questions and you will get your trains working ok. Its a great hobby. be aware though, its catchy.
Dereck

Aruba has a "status aparte" under the Dutch Kingdom, Dutch passports yes, not a part of the EU, located in the Southern part of the Caribbean.
Import duty's on almost everything and slow and expensive postal and customs system.... but a heck of a place to spend your days!!!!

Jean-Pierre

Are you telling me, the Netherlands issue two different passports? One for EU citizens and one for overseas citizens? Or in other words, the Netherlands got a first and second class citizenship? Strange EU and I understand GB every day better to leave this club of hypocrites.

Before the 1981 British Nationality Act, British passports for Gibraltarians did not include the automatic right of abode in the UK, but were over-stamped "The holder is a UK citizen for EU purposes". How's that for a laugh!

The EU has many faults but nothing can be changed if you're outside it. For Gibraltar Brexit may be quite a disaster economically, but we only had a small share of the vote at the referendum and had zero influence with the majority of UK citizens.

I don't want to discuss politics here, but if we get antagonism from our neighbours now that we are both EU members, imagine when we are not....

Jean Pierre, our apologies if we have strayed away from the topic under discussion, but you will find if you stay with us for any length of time that this happens in most discussion threads.

Please be patient and just politely remind the offending members what you would like discussed in your topic.

(...and try not to shout!)

Hello Jean-Pierre,

sure, I can. But first a question: have you ever used the search function in this forum?

I just searched for "delta loco to 5 pole" and got a return of 50 pages. Here is one:

https://www.marklin-user...60760-Decoder#post566120

Do not know, if this answers your questions. But don't you think it is a start?

Another point. Nobody else was answering your questions. Because you are definitely not the first person asking these questions. But if I write an answer to you, then there are plenty of people at marklin-users.net who knows it better, but they never start answering your questions before.

Finally and indeed: I am interested in people from Aruba too. Not only from Australia, Japan, or anywhere else all over the world. A part of this interest is to get more information about your island, state and normal living circumstances. Especially it is a small one, normally we do not know very much about your island in Europe.

Of course I do want to know more of your MRR too. But do you know that Märklin published two different books, which are still available at the moment?

Article # 03092 "Controlling Digitally with the Central Station 3" Book (in English available)
https://www.maerklin.de/...ts/details/article/03092

Article # 03070 "Returning/Changing Over to Digital Model Railroading" (only in German available)
https://www.maerklin.de/...ts/details/article/03070

Also they inform you on its homepage about a digitally railroad.
https://www.maerklin.de/...ion/model-train-control/

and why you only shall use switching power supplies
https://www.maerklin.de/...itched-mode-power-packs/

Finally I am interested, which MRR

(abbreviations like MRR at marklin-users.net you find under this link
https://www.marklin-user...ionary-of-Abbreviations)

are you interested in: an analogue or a digital MRR or do you want to operate both systems parallel? But you cannot operate a digital MRR (the delta system is already a digital operating system) on an analogue one. But a analogue loco runs on your digital railway with high speed without any speed control. Looks nice for a certain time, but it is not my intention for a longer time playing with a MRR. And indeed I am a little bit confused too about your question, if a 5 pole motor gives you a smoother running than what else? Is this really a major problem?

Best regards

TEEWolf

TEEWolf

Thank you for the information and links, it is appreciated.

No, i did not use the search function on this forum before, did google searches and got some info that way (and found the digital Marklin books that way...)

I want to make due with what i have so far (reason given in previous post), but want to squeeze what i can get out of it.... analog or delta (digital) is not that important to me, as long as the lok moves smooth on the track pulling the RoLa's carrying my Herpa truck collection.....

No problem if you want to know more on Aruba, fire away with your questions....

BTW, we did spend a week in Bavaria last July, came to the Hamfest in Friedrichshafen, visited the Herpa museum, Bayern Munich stadion and other interesting places. Hope to pay a visit to the Porsche / Marklin museum next year when we are in Europe

Best regards

Jean-Pierre

Jean-Pierre,

if you want to visit Hans-Peter Porsche Traumwerk we have a few topics here at marklin-users.net about this MRR. I visited the dreamwork and wrote some tips how to get there with public transportation by train and bus.

https://www.marklin-user...-Peter-Porsche-Traumwerk

Here a few links about the Traumwerk, so you may dream about the dreamwork till your next visit . Even marklin-users.net members made very nice videos about this MRR already and posted them here.

https://www.traumwerk.de/

https://www.marklin-user...ns-Pieter-Porsche-layout

https://www.marklin-user...o-see-in-Western-Austria

While I was searching some topics about HP dreamworks I found another topic for a 60760 update - just I am not to much off topic again.

https://www.marklin-user...locos-with-60760-Decoder

Best regards

TEEWolf

P.S.: which RoLa did you get? I bought this year Märklin's RoLa trainset # 26531

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/26531/

with a Delta system decoder inside. My first one - all other digital locos (I still have several analogue locos from about my railway 50 years ago) I bought got only mfx or mfx+ decoders on board. But I could not test my train set yet, because I do not have a functioning layout at the moment.

Hello Jean-Pierre,

wow I am astonished more and more what Märklin is doing! Obviously they have started translating more and more of their German Homepage into English.

https://www.maerklin.de/...istoric-digital-control/

https://www.maerklin.de/...ntrol/maerklin-decoders/

https://www.maerklin.de/...quently-asked-questions/

Especially these FAQs will answer you plenty of questions (including analogue against digital) and they are in English now. I do not know if you speak or understand German. Plenty of the Dutch people does. They understand it better as I understand the Dutch language, although I never learned it.

If you still have M-tracks you can use them also for digital trains and you can connect them with the actual Märklin C-, K-tracks. Märklin offers special connecting tracks therefore.

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/24951/

Shortly: yes, the new decoders of the mSD/3 series achieve a running quality in all cases you never have seen before. I got the Insider 103 long #39170

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/39170/

from last years. The loco came with an mSD/3 decoder inside as the standard decoder. I never ever had such a smooth and fine running loco ever before. Only recommendable.

I am not alone. In a German community one member wrote, he has over 50 locos and now he started to replace them ALL with the new mSD/3 (= Märklin Sound Decoder 3. Generation – mSD decoders are still available, but they are not as good as the mSD/3) (mLD = Märklin Locomotive Decoder, is the same as a mSD but without sound.) because of its superb characteristics.

About your motor questions – give me some time, please. This is even a more complex capital for Märklin as the decoder ones. But I can send you also some links for information about the various motor at Märklin, from analogue and digital ones.

But the "music" comes from the decoders - always. Steered and controlled by and with the CVs.

Best regards

Wolfgang

Hello Jean-Pierre, as I indicated in my first post the mobile station #60653 or better #60657 would probably be best. I have still got one #60652 that works. Like you said the first one died on me for no reason & was not worth the effort to get repaired. But please have a read of this previously discussed item on our forum:

https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...-Station-60653-and-60657

Hi Jean-Pierre,

indeed these old controllers are very cheap. If you bought one 20 years ago and you still use it, then it is still fine. But honestly I never would buy one of them today. It is waisting money, especially at the moment are dramatic changes with Märklin and its new controller the CS 3.

See at this hot topic at the moment about the software update 1.3.3 for a CS 3.

https://www.marklin-user...d-CS3-new-update-V-1-3-3

I only can recommend to you, buying a CS 3, especially you are living probabely not pretty close to a Märklin dealer. At the end of the day for software updates you always need a CS 3. Well a CS 2 does it too, but Märklin did a jump forward with the technology with the CS 3. E.g. the CS 3 comes first time with a 32 bit processor inside. All others still have the 8 bit one.

The minimum you should buy is a MS 2. @Davids propsal is not bad if you find a starter set which fits for you. In these starter set with a MS 2 (be aware there are cheaper ones with the IR module - forget about this.) and a mfx loco inside is not bad to buy, because they are complete, including a track box and a power supply, which you always need for a MS 2. For a CS 3 you need the power supply to buy extra.

How does your delta system still works? Can you use it for another year? I am not familiar with these digital techniques. When I started my MRR relaunch I started with a MS 2 into the digital era and I decided looking forward. So I also decided myself for the mfx and mfx+ technology. It makes digital life much easier as you think at the moment.

My proposal would be, think about buying a CS 3 next time you are in Germany. You get the VAT tax refund too, but you safe the shipping cost. Of course I wil help you finding a dealer with the best offer. At the moment I lookd up a dealer for a CS 3 60226 inclundig power supply and after tax refund will cost about 500 € here in Germany. YES a lot of money, so it is just an idea. I also looked up a complete set for a MS 2. One of my dealer offers a complete package for 90 € including track box and power supply.

http://joes-modellbahnla...15f08b03b/Products/60653

It is the grey version and except the colour is no difference to the new one 60657.

https://www.maerklin.de/...te/details/article/60657

I got 2 of them including a track box and power supply while I bought a starter set in 2013 (29040)

I am very satisfied by this equipment. Only the software update is not easy. This had to be done always via a CS. Last year I bought a CS 3+. On the CS 3 you also can use the MS 2 (and also a MS 1 you are thinking about), but you do not need the trackbox or digital connector box

https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/60116/

Finally it depends where do you want to go with your hobby MRR.

Best regards

Wolfgang

Just my view but I would not go backwards to the 6021 as after that you need other items to control turnouts etc. By the time you bought all the old stuff you would probably not be far off a starter set. In the long run a starter set will be cheaper than trying to collect other items which will not do all you want. A stand alone 6021 will not give you much operation of the layout or current Marklin locos.
As cost is your main concern ..as it is for most of us … I think it is better to buy the correct up to date items which will last years into the future.

I know it was in the middle of a certain footie match but this afternoon I watched a brand new start set 29074 from a reputable source; lok, wagons, track and full MS2 kit sell on ebay auction for 169 Euros. Now I reckon that PJ Marklin must be on his travels as surely he would be here promoting the virtues of the 6021 et al kit but to me at that price its no competition surely.

Hi Jean-Pierre, I agree with what Wolfgang has said in his last post. I have about 6 old blue trannies, of which one powers all my points etc and one power the out circuit. I have 2 MS2's, and they work very well. They are able to control all my digital locos.

I started buying new digital locos about 19 years ago but never got a digital controller. I was able to buy a 29815 Delta set without the track for $550.00 about 4 years ago. I found out later the loco had an early full digital decoder in it. I then bought the first MS'2, and was able to run all my digital locos. They run very well. Great on slow speeds and all have acceleration and braking control. I even now hove one the smokes and talks.

You wont regret getting an MS'2

As know one has mentioned whether the conversion to full digital from delta will improve your loco's running on the analogue tranny, I guess its up to you now to let us know if it makes a difference. I do know that a delta loco runs just like an analogue loco whether you use an analogue tranny, a delta tranny or an MS'2.

Good luck and all the best.

Dereck

Hello Jean-Pierre,I took the plunge about 3 years ago and bought my first MS2 from Germany. It cost me 98 euro plus 40 euro freight.
I do also recommend you make sure it has version 2.7 on it or you will need to upgrade it via a CS2 or some other way I dont know about.

Dereck

OK, for those interested.
Got my "new" delta lok yesterday and "played around" a bit with it last night and today.

Drove it out-off-the-box with the analog transformer first, drives real nice an smooth without any issues. Fairly nice low crawl also.
Switched to the delta controller secondly, gave the lok a delta address (moved the switches inside), and tried it out... to say the least i had expected more... max speed was lower, and crawling speed was not as smooth as with the analog transformer.

Today i switched the rotor from the 3 pole to the 5 pole out of the kit, leaving the field-coil and decoder as is, and with using the analog transformer i can confirm that the performance went down instead of up. Max speed is lower, and it takes a higher setting of the controller before the lok starts to crawl.
I did not try the lok like this in delta mode / with the delta controller, i figure it will be even worse...

Next up i want to do the complete conversion, decoder and all.....

Question: would the loc still run "normal" in analog mode then??

Saludos
Jean-Pierre

Hello Ray

Tnx for your comments.

I wanted to at least try it out, besides the tinkering time, nothing else to loose!!

With "normal" i mean the way the loco came out of the box originally.
With the complete conversion done, it should at least drive (in analog mode) as good as it drove without the conversion.....

For now, the decoder will be the basic one from the kit (# 60760), the pre-programmed address is delta address # 78, so i should be OK there.

Two things i am still trying to figure out on how to wire up the new decoder:
- how to keep the automatic front / back light switch over (clear and red lights). The loco has a small extra circuit board inside next to the original delta decoder that regulates this.
- How to keep those same lights on in "delta mode" when not driving.


Best regards
Jean-Pierre

Hey everyone,

So, whatever happened to Jean-Pierre and his return to the hobby?

I read many of the initial posts, and skimmed the rest, but it looks like he initially wanted to remain with the old analog trains, upgrade them to digital, and stay with the Delta transformer.

It also looks like everyone eventually convinced him to at least go to a mobile station on CS2...

Here is the path I have taken:
I got my first Marklin train set the Christmas after I turned 3 in November - that would have been 1967. I still have the original lok and 3 cars.

In the 80's I had over time expanded, and had set up a fine looking layout in my parents' dining room - 3 elevations high - on perhaps a 5ft x 9ft area. I lost interest when I discovered girls - but came back briefly in the late 90s, early 00s, expanding my rolling stock collection, and pinpointing my direction etc,, to be Denmark, Era IV (with ery late III and very early V), rolling DSB stock - because those were the trains I rode as a kid and teen.

Again, life got in the way, and now, starting about 2017, I have been expanding my collection again, having now discovered DIGITAL!!!!!

I am working on upgrading all my old rolling stock to Digital, with the high-efficiency motor, having amassed nearly every part of the MM Digital system components, including the 2nd gen MM, like Control 80f - I got the keyboard, memory, control station, central control, central station, 2 6001 transformers, one running a booster for the k83 switch decoders - and I am having a blast!

Yes, upgrading old locos is a lot of work, but for about $40 - $45 each, it is very cost efficient in place of a brand new digital - and if I do a LokSound, it's still less than $150 including the HE propulsion, plus the enjoyment of the accomplishment.

I am still running M-track - and I need to get some older Lima DSB Litra MZ engines converted from DC to AC Digital. Also bought a couple of very new Roco DSB engines in DC - MISTAKE!!!!! While the old Lima ones are fairly uncomplicated and relatively inexpensive to convert - not so with Roco, especially for the DSB Litra Ma 461 Platinum Edition "Lyntog" - which requires nearly EUR 300 in replacement parts for the DC to AC conversion. I had purchased 2 already when I discovered this, and am now selling one to cover the cost to convert the other - and have purchased one in AC with LokSound, so I will have a nice set of Ma 461 and Ma 463.

Now - to my point: I am drooling over the Mobile Station - but I had already purchased much of the MM CS1 before I knew it had aged out - and I am finding that there is at least ONE thing the CS2 and CS3 can't do: Route memory, setting several turnouts at the touch of just 1 button on the Memory. I have decided to remain with the MM system (for now), and learn little by little. This system can do what I was trying to solve in 1984 in my parents place, and I am upgrading my older locomotives, but have finally concluded that, when buying new, unless there is a specific engine number that is not made in Digital, always buy (used) digital engines instead of buying an old analog to convert.

I'd be interested in Jean-Pierre's progress in the Dutch Antilles.

Cheers everyone!

Michael.

Arriba Aruba!

Good to read your magnificent progress.

C-track is gorgeous. I use it myself.
Please be aware buying used c-track rails - especially before 2010 - they can brittle sometimes. Märklin has still an exchange programm for such broken or brittled tracks, although the main fault happened before the insolvency and therefore before the new owners..