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Offline Rocca  
#1 Posted : 15 November 2017 15:32:58(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 554
Dear Friends,

I wish to put on my Märklin Spuer 1 layout 2 revers loops. What do you suggest, in your experience, for the changing of polarity? Is it enough a simple Märklin Switcher (if that, which wiring?) or could I use the new LGB Set 55085?
Best regards
Stefano Rocca
Offline Tony  
#2 Posted : 16 November 2017 08:10:01(UTC)
Tony

Bahrain   
Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 719
Location: Bahrain (Ex South Africa),
Hi Stefano,

Although I don't have a layout at the moment, I plan to use Littfinski DatenTechnik (LDT) item: KSM-SG Reverse loop modules, when I build my large 1-gauge layout in a year or so. I have tested it some time back on a sample layout and seems to work well. I used some LDT products with my previous HO layout and found them to be really good.ThumpUp

Regards,
Tony
Regards Tony
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Tony
Offline phils2um  
#3 Posted : 16 November 2017 08:34:19(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Hi Stefano,

I would highly recommend the LGB 55085 (or Massoth equivalent) using the sensor track option if you are using digital control. It is automatic when properly installed and does not require any operator intervention. I'm using one on my outdoor RR and it works great.

LGB also had a reverse loop set, 10151 for analog control using two isolating track sections and diodes. This set cannot be used with digital control. It is analog only.

Phil Simpson
Offline Rocca  
#4 Posted : 16 November 2017 17:59:37(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 554
Thank you so much, dear Phil! I'm using the "old" Märklin 1 tracks and I operate with a Mobile2. But what about the sensor tracks, please? The Märklin old material hasn't anything like that. In Märklin Profi I own only a Cocco and an Adler and a T91. But I've 4 locos in the Maxi!
Best regards

Stefano Rocca




Originally Posted by: phils2um Go to Quoted Post
Hi Stefano,

I would highly recommend the LGB 55085 (or Massoth equivalent) using the sensor track option if you are using digital control. It is automatic when properly installed and does not require any operator intervention. I'm using one on my outdoor RR and it works great.

LGB also had a reverse loop set, 10151 for analog control using two isolating track sections and diodes. This set cannot be used with digital control. It is analog only.

Phil Simpson
Offline phils2um  
#5 Posted : 01 December 2017 01:16:42(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Hi again -

Sorry for not getting back sooner. I forgot to check the watch is topic box!

The "sensor tracks" are just small lengths (about 2-5 cm) of rail that are isolated on both sides. The "sensor" rails are connected to the sensor inputs on the 55085. You can make the equivalent by cutting a straight section of track into short lengths. You will need two short sections for each loop. The short sections are connected with Märklin 59090 Insulated rail joiners at all four joints. Use 59096 Feeder clips to connect the sensor rails to the 55085. Download the LGB 55085 manual from the Märklin/LGB website. It will show you how to make the connections.

It is also possible to get by with only one 55085 if you use it to switch polarity of the line connecting the loops but the wiring is more complicated.
Hope this helps.

Phil Simpson
Offline sterns  
#6 Posted : 07 June 2019 06:29:48(UTC)
sterns

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Florida, Miami
Just getting into 1 gauge and looking to do a reverse loop, reading some of these posts they are somewhat outdated, is there any new technology that you would recommend now for the auto reverse module, I plan to use the IB as controller.
Offline phils2um  
#7 Posted : 07 June 2019 09:00:53(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
What is IB? You say you plan to use IB as controller. DCC reverse loop control modules have not changed much. I still recommend the LGB 55085 or Massoth 8157001 reverse loop modules. They operate with sensor tracks to switch the track polarity thus not causing a short circuit. All the other modules I'm aware of rely on short circuit sensing to switch polarity.
Offline sterns  
#8 Posted : 07 June 2019 13:28:36(UTC)
sterns

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Florida, Miami
Originally Posted by: phils2um Go to Quoted Post
What is IB? You say you plan to use IB as controller. DCC reverse loop control modules have not changed much. I still recommend the LGB 55085 or Massoth 8157001 reverse loop modules. They operate with sensor tracks to switch the track polarity thus not causing a short circuit. All the other modules I'm aware of rely on short circuit sensing to switch polarity.


I plan to use the Uhlenbrock IntelliBox (IB) as my central unit controller. Are either of these modules waterproof for outdoor use?
Offline sterns  
#9 Posted : 07 June 2019 14:24:21(UTC)
sterns

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Florida, Miami
Originally Posted by: sterns Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: phils2um Go to Quoted Post
What is IB? You say you plan to use IB as controller. DCC reverse loop control modules have not changed much. I still recommend the LGB 55085 or Massoth 8157001 reverse loop modules. They operate with sensor tracks to switch the track polarity thus not causing a short circuit. All the other modules I'm aware of rely on short circuit sensing to switch polarity.


I plan to use the Uhlenbrock IntelliBox (IB) as my central unit controller. Are either of these modules waterproof for outdoor use?


And would welcome any suggestions on how to automate the switch, with k83/84 or loconet relays. Anyone have a diagram for this?
Offline TEEWolf  
#10 Posted : 07 June 2019 19:40:31(UTC)
TEEWolf

Germany   
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1,621
Location: Bavaria
Originally Posted by: Rocca Go to Quoted Post
Dear Friends,

I wish to put on my Märklin Spuer 1 layout 2 revers loops. What do you suggest, in your experience, for the changing of polarity? Is it enough a simple Märklin Switcher (if that, which wiring?) or could I use the new LGB Set 55085?
Best regards
Stefano Rocca


Why don't you look into LGB and Trix websites? Both offers reverse loops modules and have a very good description there. In addition you find at both articles manuals for further informations.

I would prefer the LGB one. Either LGB or TRIX as well are able to use both types of constructing reverse loops: polarity switching or sensor tracks.

"Polarity switching can be done by means of short circuit recognition or sensor tracks (current sensor)" says it at the TRIX website.

https://www.trix.de/en/p...s/details/article/66846/

but the LGB writes on its website:

https://www.lgb.com/prod...s/details/article/55085/

"One more advantage of the reverse loop module: Several reverse loops can be used simultaneously on the layout". Don't you want to do 2 reverse loops?

I do not speak Italian, but as far as I see in the manuals you find explanations in Italian too. Why don't you want to use it?
CS 3 is a controller system from Märklin - not a central station.
Offline phils2um  
#11 Posted : 07 June 2019 21:49:14(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
sterns,

Neither the LGB nor Massoth modules are waterproof. They are weather resistant. Mine is in a trackside building outside year-round for three years and still going strong. One thing to consider, is your UI controller up to the task for as far as track voltage and output current for operating large scale trains? 3 amps is fairly limiting if that's the max yours can put out. Also be aware that whatever reverse loop module you choose also needs to be able to handle the current load imposed by large scale trains. DCC Specialties in the U.S. make a reverse loop module that has a switch output like the TRIX module but works only by short circuit sensing. I second TEEWolf's suggestion to read up.
Offline sterns  
#12 Posted : 07 June 2019 22:41:46(UTC)
sterns

United States   
Joined: 04/06/2019(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Florida, Miami
Originally Posted by: phils2um Go to Quoted Post
sterns,

Neither the LGB nor Massoth modules are waterproof. They are weather resistant. Mine is in a trackside building outside year-round for three years and still going strong. One thing to consider, is your UI controller up to the task for as far as track voltage and output current for operating large scale trains? 3 amps is fairly limiting if that's the max yours can put out. Also be aware that whatever reverse loop module you choose also needs to be able to handle the current load imposed by large scale trains. DCC Specialties in the U.S. make a reverse loop module that has a switch output like the TRIX module but works only by short circuit sensing. I second TEEWolf's suggestion to read up.


Thanks, I agree power is a concern, I plan to run 2-3 engines, if needed I can add an 8A booster. Do you happen to know the length of the Massoth 8157001 sensor tracks? its not mentioned in their product datasheet.

Funny how spoiled Ive been with 3-Rail HO...BigGrin
Offline phils2um  
#13 Posted : 08 June 2019 00:02:39(UTC)
phils2um

United States   
Joined: 12/01/2016(UTC)
Posts: 13
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
The provided rail bits are 2.5cm (1in) in length. But are code 332 brass rail. I'm also using a LGB 42mm track make-up section with all the joiners replaced by insulating joiners for one of my sensor track sections. It works fine. I don't think length is critical as long as the loco wheels/skates can bridge the section. I'm not sure but don't think the sensor section is powered.
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