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Offline David1954  
#1 Posted : 11 September 2013 00:45:23(UTC)
David1954

United States   
Joined: 26/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: Texas
How do you wire circuit track (24994) to turn on or off another track power. Both have an insulated space. Do you need an additional item beside two circuit tracks? If so what is it?
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 11 September 2013 07:52:56(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,272
Location: DE-NW
You need a signal or a universal relay for that task.

It's easier to answer your questions if you keep related questions in one thread (instead of starting a new thread for every new question).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline waorb  
#3 Posted : 11 September 2013 14:12:57(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 868
Location: Brazil
Originally Posted by: David1954 Go to Quoted Post
How do you wire circuit track (24994) to turn on or off another track power. Both have an insulated space. Do you need an additional item beside two circuit tracks? If so what is it?

Hi!

You can also use the K84 decoder for this task. Several diagrams are on the net, depending of what do you want. Cool
Maybe you need the S88 also...

Regards,

Walter
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 11 September 2013 14:45:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,272
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post
You can also use the K84 decoder for this task. Several diagrams are on the net, depending of what do you want. Cool
Maybe you need the S88 also...
And also a CS2 or ECoS or something like that. A universal relay will be a li'l bit cheaper than k84+s88+CS2. LOL
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 12 September 2013 00:45:50(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: David1954 Go to Quoted Post
How do you wire circuit track (24994) to turn on or off another track power.
Both have an insulated space. Do you need an additional item beside two circuit tracks? If so what is it?


The Circuit track acts as a trigger(control) only, so you DO need additional componetry(relay) to act as the on/off switch

ESSENTIAL
The switch is generally a relay contact and, for the purpose you describe, is generally provided as an integral part of most Marklin block signals.
If you have no need of the signal part then any relay(latching) will do .
Note: a latching relay is one that needs only a pulse to change state. thus there is a wire for the on_pulse and a wire for the off_pulse

As to the actual control method, you have a choice of DIRECT or INDIRECT
DIRECT (just add wire)
The control signal from the circuit track (or contact track, or pushbutton control panel) is feed directly to the relay. In this scenario you would generally have 2 sensors one to make the track safe(dead/off) and one for go. It is quite normal for a sensor to, concurrently, set track power off for one line and on for another. This is typical when a train enters a block and the signal goes red to prevent entry, but this can also imply that the block just vacated is (becoming)clear and the upstream signal can be concurrently set to (amber)green.

INDIRECT (see other references to Controller<6021,CS,ECos> and Control Equipment<6084,6083-plus-Relay/Signal>)
In this scenario , the trigger signal from the sensor (circuit track) is connected to a controller device with , generally, more advanced logic.
The resulting output of the logic is to send the needed commands to the relay/signal as above.
Thus 1,2or3 additional pieces of equipment are needed depending on the features of the Controller
a) The Controller
b) a mechanism to receive the trigger (in Marklin world this is a s88 <60880>)
c) a driver for the relay (in the Marklin world this is provided by a k84<60840> or k83 <60830>PLUS Universal relay<7244>)

The direct method requires only the relay mechanism (Marklin 7244 relay or Signal with relay wiring ). however it has almost no flexibility - this can be desirable for the reliability of fixed sequencing. The indirect method, as well as adding flexibility of logic, also allows the controller to accurately reflect the state of the layout, track occupied for the Layout Schematic, and the state of points and switches(relays)

References
Universal Relay (note: the red wires indicat the On/Off wiring)
http://medienpdb.maerkli...s/1/pdf/7244_betrieb.pdf

k84<60840>
http://medienpdb.maerkli.../1/pdf/60840_betrieb.pdf

Note: The Schematics are pathetically naive but do give something to work with

In the 7442 diagram, an ASSUMPTION is being made that the brown wire that is shown connected to 7039 signal is connected to the baseplate which is clipped to M-Track in order to propogate the circuit down the rail to the 24994 switch (other side of the blue wire). As this is clearly C-Track additional , manual, wiring is needed to ensure the brown wire return circuit is complete all the way to the 24994.

In the 6084 diagram do not get confused by the Red wireing to the "dead" section being "jumpered" to the bottom/left red connection of the k84. This wire should come from the same power source that is feeding the adjacent pieces of track to the dead section. IF this was a digital layout AND there was only a single controller with no boosters this schematic would be acceptable. But for Analogue or Booster track powering this wire should be derived from the upstream track to prevent cross connections of different power sources.
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Mike M  
#6 Posted : 12 September 2013 01:05:48(UTC)
Mike M

Canada   
Joined: 01/01/2013(UTC)
Posts: 155
Location: Victoria B.C.
None of these links work. Tried copy paste no success



Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: David1954 Go to Quoted Post
How do you wire circuit track (24994) to turn on or off another track power.
Both have an insulated space. Do you need an additional item beside two circuit tracks? If so what is it?


The Circuit track acts as a trigger(control) only, so you DO need additional componetry(relay) to act as the on/off switch

ESSENTIAL
The switch is generally a relay contact and, for the purpose you describe, is generally provided as an integral part of most Marklin block signals.
If you have no need of the signal part then any relay(latching) will do .
Note: a latching relay is one that needs only a pulse to change state. thus there is a wire for the on_pulse and a wire for the off_pulse

As to the actual control method, you have a choice of DIRECT or INDIRECT
DIRECT (just add wire)
The control signal from the circuit track (or contact track, or pushbutton control panel) is feed directly to the relay. In this scenario you would generally have 2 sensors one to make the track safe(dead/off) and one for go. It is quite normal for a sensor to, concurrently, set track power off for one line and on for another. This is typical when a train enters a block and the signal goes red to prevent entry, but this can also imply that the block just vacated is (becoming)clear and the upstream signal can be concurrently set to (amber)green.

INDIRECT (see other references to Controller<6021,CS,ECos> and Control Equipment<6084,6083-plus-Relay/Signal>)
In this scenario , the trigger signal from the sensor (circuit track) is connected to a controller device with , generally, more advanced logic.
The resulting output of the logic is to send the needed commands to the relay/signal as above.
Thus 1,2or3 additional pieces of equipment are needed depending on the features of the Controller
a) The Controller
b) a mechanism to receive the trigger (in Marklin world this is a s88 <60880>)
c) a driver for the relay (in the Marklin world this is provided by a k84<60840> or k83 <60830>PLUS Universal relay<7244>)

The direct method requires only the relay mechanism (Marklin 7244 relay or Signal with relay wiring ). however it has almost no flexibility - this can be desirable for the reliability of fixed sequencing. The indirect method, as well as adding flexibility of logic, also allows the controller to accurately reflect the state of the layout, track occupied for the Layout Schematic, and the state of points and switches(relays)

References
Universal Relay (note: the red wires indicat the On/Off wiring)
http://medienpdb.maerkli...s/1/pdf/7244_betrieb.pdf

k84<60840>
http://medienpdb.maerkli.../1/pdf/60840_betrieb.pdf

Note: The Schematics are pathetically naive but do give something to work with

In the 7442 diagram, an ASSUMPTION is being made that the brown wire that is shown connected to 7039 signal is connected to the baseplate which is clipped to M-Track in order to propogate the circuit down the rail to the 24994 switch (other side of the blue wire). As this is clearly C-Track additional , manual, wiring is needed to ensure the brown wire return circuit is complete all the way to the 24994.

In the 6084 diagram do not get confused by the Red wireing to the "dead" section being "jumpered" to the bottom/left red connection of the k84. This wire should come from the same power source that is feeding the adjacent pieces of track to the dead section. IF this was a digital layout AND there was only a single controller with no boosters this schematic would be acceptable. But for Analogue or Booster track powering this wire should be derived from the upstream track to prevent cross connections of different power sources.


Offline clapcott  
#7 Posted : 12 September 2013 01:46:01(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,435
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
If your browser does not allow hyperlinking the full urls are ...

Quote:
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/7244_betrieb.pdf

Quote:
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/60840_betrieb.pdf
Peter
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by clapcott
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