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Front white lights and rear red tails lights based on direction
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC) Posts: 73 Location: Quebec, Montreal
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Hello Community, I am trying to do a digital conversion of my 30-year diesel loco Märklin 3072 as shown here. I noticed in the post the person who did the conversion was able to make the train change LED light colors based on direction. Here is a similar post. I would like to set it up the same way white lights forward rear tails lights in the back and switch based on direction, but don’t how and what parts I need. Can anyone give insight on this ? I will be installing a Motor Märklin 60944 Here is a picture of the train and the interior.    
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,563 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Waterslip In the Märklin range, using an mLD3 (cheaper, no sound) or mSD3 (with sound) having front and rear lights are easy to program especially with a CS2 or CS3 Basically you have 2 options - a simple one (no decoder programming needed) you connect the front white light on one side to the red light on the other side. - a more sophisticated one (requires a CS2 / CS3 or a Lokprogrammer). In this solution the white headlights are connected the usual way and 2 additional outputs (e.g. AUX1 and AUX2 are used to drive the red marker on each side of the loco. The CS is used only to light the red marker only depending on the direction of travel.
Note: making AUX1 and AUX2 direction-dependent is not a must because, when the front headlight is on, the red maker won't be seen. It can be a solution if you don't have a CS2 or CS3. Cheers Jean
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,233 Location: Montreal, QC
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The original model had two bulbs, one at each end. The light would go on on the end which was leading, depending on the direction selected. If you convert the model to digital, you would need to connect the lights to the decoder. You can no longer use the locomotive frame for return (ground) connection.
The actual locomotive has separate headlights and taillights. If you want to install prototypical taillights, you would have to drill out the holes. Your options would be as follows:
1) Keep the original headlights (bulbs) and install red LEDs. You could then wire it so that when locomotive was moving, the normal lights would be on at the front and the red LEDs on the other end.
2) Replace all lighting and install white and red LEDs on both ends. This would give you more options, e.g. controlling each light individually. I don't know what the standard options would be for a DB shunter, but you could then do "Swiss type lighting", 2 instead of 3, or all on/off, etc...
3) The simple solution would be to use the same headlamps for white and red, meaning that you would just have to adapt the light channel/lenses and skip drilling out the actual taillights.
Regards
Mike C
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 2 users liked this useful post by mike c
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,446 Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: mike c  I don't know what the standard options would be for a DB shunter The BR 212 is not a shunter, but a branchline loco even used in push/pull operation. Red rear lights are appropriate when the loco runs single or pushes a train. Only white headlights are needed if the loco is always used to pull a train. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
 1 user liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,908 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Yes, and also as Jean and Mike C pointed out, the new decoders can change the light functions for push/pull direction turning off the lights altogether at the end coupled to the train if desired with an MS2, or a CS2, or 3. A single lens dual color led may be available from ESU, etc. with 4 wires on it to match the decoder output terminals.
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Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC) Posts: 73 Location: Quebec, Montreal
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Thank you all for the valuable feedback. If I was to go with option 3, how would I wire it and what parts do I need ? The other problem is that all 3 lights are light by a plastic arch as you can see on the inside, but I just want the bottom 2 turn red when in reverse, and all 3 to turn white when forward. What parts/decoder would I need ?
I have a Marklin 6021 no MSx or CSx.
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 1 user liked this useful post by waterslip
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,563 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Re lights, one simple way is to un-clip the light-conducting plastic, add some black dull paint on the top light and install it back Re bulbs on the old BR212, there were screw bulbs (2 pin socketless bulbs on newer ones) You may want to replace it by a 2 pin bulb socket (one of the wires to yellow or grey, the other one to orange (+ common return) My preference is to use bi-color LEDs (white red) some are with a joint anode (a MUST for you), others are with 4 wires I like LEDs like these inexpensive very luminous and tiny https://www.ebay.de/itm/19311218...524%7Ctkp%3ABFBM8r7N3a1fCheers Jean |
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 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC) Posts: 623 Location: Athens
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Hi Sorry for the delay to answer to your message Here is the theoretical plan of the electronics 3072_Plan.docx (126kb) downloaded 15,100 time(s).I used a combination of 2mm LED and SMD because the space is limited Drill 2mm openings in the place where the Red lights should be   The light insulation between the LEDs is very important   Its quite difficult and time consuming but the final result is perfect    Regards Costas
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 5 users liked this useful post by ktsolias
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Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 945 Location: Sydney, NSW
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Hi Costas,
Nice conversion and documentation.
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Ross
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 1 user liked this useful post by Ross
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Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC) Posts: 73 Location: Quebec, Montreal
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Wow Costas, this is amazing work with surgical precision and so well documented. I will get on it and study it right away, Question: 1. Do the lights switch automatically when changing train direction ? 2. Can I use decoder 60976 instead, if so where does the Orange wire U(+) in your schematics go to ? 3. For the LED’s is it these kind, they are 2 mm ? 4. In your attached diagram I noticed you added the resistor on the cathode (negative) side, is that correct ? Here is the 60976:  2mm micro LED: 
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Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC) Posts: 623 Location: Athens
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Originally Posted by: waterslip  Wow Costas, this is amazing work with surgical precision and so well documented. I will get on it and study it right away, Question: 1. Do the lights switch automatically when changing train direction ? 2. Can I use decoder 60976 instead, if so where does the Orange wire U(+) in your schematics go to ? 3. For the LED’s is it these kind, they are 2 mm ? 4. In your attached diagram I noticed you added the resistor on the cathode (negative) side, is that correct ? Here is the 60976:  2mm micro LED:  Hi Thank you for your comments 1. The red lights are on AUX 1 and AUX 2 respectively. So are independent from the white lights. How they are working is a mater of function mapping. My mapping is as follows F1 = AUX 1: (reverse) + AUX 2: (forward). Both negative logic. That means: when the loco start the Red lights go on according to the direction of movement independent from the front/rear lights. If we want the reds of just activate F1. (No red glow when there are wagons connected). The mapping can change according to your taste By the way what controller do you have? 2. The 60976 has exactly the same base plate. The U+ is the white. My color code is a bit strange. I basically use Märklin expect for AUX 1 and AUX 2 I used NEM (AUX1=green, AUX2=violet) because the Märklin wires are to thick. 3. Yes they are. In some cases I used SMD with a piece of light fiber in the front. 4. Yes always the resistor is on the cathode, except in some cases (swiss light changeover) where I need special behavior of the LEDs. Always do the drilling on the plastic housings by hand and not with a power drill (damage on the plastic) or with a drill at very low revs. I do the drilling manually. The cables of the Märklin decoder plate are too thick for the space of this loco. So better to use ESU cables at least for the frond and rear lighting. regards Costas
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 1 user liked this useful post by ktsolias
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,772 Location: New Zealand
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You could make up a board for mounting the LED's out of veroboard such as this one here. The picture shows surface mount led's being used. 
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 5 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC) Posts: 73 Location: Quebec, Montreal
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Hi Costas, For the equipment I only have a Märklin 6021, which I am planning on using for a while as I’m still a beginner in this and want to learn gradually. For remapping of functions I don’t have any additional hardware to do so, I actually have another loco with ESU LokSound decoder which I was able to remap the functions just using the 6021.Should I consider an ESU Decoder instead ? For the U+ I checked for a white cable, there isn’t one. There is only brown/white which is on AUX4. But there are three “+Ub” on the board and are orange orange, is it one of them? Which one should I select ? Thank you,
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Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC) Posts: 623 Location: Athens
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I don't know if you can change the function mapping with the 6021. I sold mine years ago.
The mapping of the new LokSound 5 as far as I know can changed only with ESU equipment.
Is possible other members to have experience. I use for years CS3 or ESU LokProgrammer.
Yes the +Ub is the one. There are 4 coming out from the base plate and are all the same.
One is near the yellow wire (rear lights) the other near the gray (front lights) and two are in series with the AUX soldering pads. You use the more convenient. In the plan there is just one but is theoretical paln. All are the same +18V.
Costas
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 1 user liked this useful post by ktsolias
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Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC) Posts: 73 Location: Quebec, Montreal
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Hello Costas, Thank you for the feedback, after doing some research on what you've described and the parts you used, I seem to have a better understanding : 1. I eventually will need to upgrade to a CS3 for better function mapping and customization, but for now if I want to make it work on my 6021 using the f0 function, can I connect it as so ?: Front (Gray cable): 3 front White LED's and 2 back Red LED On the Back (Yellow cable): 3 Rear White LED's and 2 front Red LED. So as long as the F0 is ON: 3 front whites are ON and 2 rear Red's are ON, when I reverse direction 3 Rear Whites are ON and 2 Front Red's are ON The wiring would look something like this:  2. So for the SMD LED's I see how you connected them to a vero board, (thank you BigDaddyNZ for the pic). I also noticed you had a similar approach in this conversion HERE. I will use SMD's instead if DIP LED's, but could not find a SMD 1205 (only 1206). 3. And last thing I noticed you used 2 inductors (E516520) on position I1, I2 but I don't where/how the're installed on the diagram. Awaiting your response,
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 2 users liked this useful post by waterslip
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Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC) Posts: 73 Location: Quebec, Montreal
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After many hours, and working with a very tiny space inside the train trying to fit so many wires; I finally got it done, it was no easy task but definitely rewarding. I would have liked to ensure there is no light bleeding between the headlights, but it's the best I can do. Thank you all for the support and guidance. Front view, forward direction  Front view, reverse direction 
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 6 users liked this useful post by waterslip
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,908 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC) Posts: 623 Location: Athens
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That's a great job
Congratulations
Costas
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 1 user liked this useful post by ktsolias
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