Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline waterslip  
#1 Posted : 29 November 2021 12:48:36(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Hello Community,
I am trying to do a digital conversion of my 30-year diesel loco Märklin 3072 as shown here.
I noticed in the post the person who did the conversion was able to make the train change LED light colors based on direction. Here is a similar post.
I would like to set it up the same way white lights forward rear tails lights in the back and switch based on direction, but don’t how and what parts I need.
Can anyone give insight on this ?
I will be installing a Motor Märklin 60944

Here is a picture of the train and the interior.
B196A2C5-65D6-484A-B094-5455D4B91F3D.jpeg
1FC6F7EB-51D0-4973-93C0-983F9E9BF4E0.jpeg
BB0284BA-7ACD-421D-85E3-0808121FA07B.jpeg
701708E4-9A8C-4E98-B68F-0A7D650DED6B.jpeg
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 29 November 2021 13:42:18(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,854
Location: Paris, France
Hi Waterslip
In the Märklin range, using an mLD3 (cheaper, no sound) or mSD3 (with sound) having front and rear lights are easy to program especially with a CS2 or CS3
Basically you have 2 options
- a simple one (no decoder programming needed) you connect the front white light on one side to the red light on the other side.
- a more sophisticated one (requires a CS2 / CS3 or a Lokprogrammer). In this solution the white headlights are connected the usual way and 2 additional outputs (e.g. AUX1 and AUX2 are used to drive the red marker on each side of the loco. The CS is used only to light the red marker only depending on the direction of travel.

Note: making AUX1 and AUX2 direction-dependent is not a must because, when the front headlight is on, the red maker won't be seen. It can be a solution if you don't have a CS2 or CS3.
Cheers
Jean



My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Online mike c  
#3 Posted : 29 November 2021 19:20:28(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,324
Location: Montreal, QC
The original model had two bulbs, one at each end. The light would go on on the end which was leading, depending on the direction selected.
If you convert the model to digital, you would need to connect the lights to the decoder. You can no longer use the locomotive frame for return (ground) connection.

The actual locomotive has separate headlights and taillights. If you want to install prototypical taillights, you would have to drill out the holes.
Your options would be as follows:

1) Keep the original headlights (bulbs) and install red LEDs. You could then wire it so that when locomotive was moving, the normal lights would be on at the front and the red LEDs on the other end.

2) Replace all lighting and install white and red LEDs on both ends. This would give you more options, e.g. controlling each light individually. I don't know what the standard options would be for a DB shunter, but you could then do "Swiss type lighting", 2 instead of 3, or all on/off, etc...

3) The simple solution would be to use the same headlamps for white and red, meaning that you would just have to adapt the light channel/lenses and skip drilling out the actual taillights.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by mike c
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 29 November 2021 19:25:34(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,380
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
I don't know what the standard options would be for a DB shunter
The BR 212 is not a shunter, but a branchline loco even used in push/pull operation.
Red rear lights are appropriate when the loco runs single or pushes a train.
Only white headlights are needed if the loco is always used to pull a train.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline marklinist5999  
#5 Posted : 29 November 2021 20:54:57(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,312
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes, and also as Jean and Mike C pointed out, the new decoders can change the light functions for push/pull direction turning off the lights altogether at the end coupled to the train if desired with an MS2, or a CS2, or 3. A single lens dual color led may be available from ESU, etc. with 4 wires on it to match the decoder output terminals.
Offline waterslip  
#6 Posted : 29 November 2021 21:14:54(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Thank you all for the valuable feedback.
If I was to go with option 3, how would I wire it and what parts do I need ?
The other problem is that all 3 lights are light by a plastic arch as you can see on the inside, but I just want the bottom 2 turn red when in reverse, and all 3 to turn white when forward.
What parts/decoder would I need ?

I have a Marklin 6021 no MSx or CSx.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by waterslip
Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 29 November 2021 23:41:25(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,854
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Re lights, one simple way is to un-clip the light-conducting plastic, add some black dull paint on the top light and install it back
Re bulbs on the old BR212, there were screw bulbs (2 pin socketless bulbs on newer ones) You may want to replace it by a 2 pin bulb socket (one of the wires to yellow or grey, the other one to orange (+ common return)
My preference is to use bi-color LEDs (white red) some are with a joint anode (a MUST for you), others are with 4 wires
I like LEDs like these inexpensive very luminous and tiny
https://www.ebay.de/itm/19311218...524%7Ctkp%3ABFBM8r7N3a1f
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline ktsolias  
#8 Posted : 29 November 2021 23:45:39(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 554
Location: Athens
Hi

Sorry for the delay to answer to your message

Here is the theoretical plan of the electronics

3072_Plan.docx (126kb) downloaded 964 time(s).

I used a combination of 2mm LED and SMD because the space is limited
Drill 2mm openings in the place where the Red lights should be

IMG_46277_resize.JPG

IMG_46278_resize.JPG

The light insulation between the LEDs is very important

IMG_48253_resize.JPG

IMG_48252_resize.JPG

Its quite difficult and time consuming but the final result is perfect

IMG_48256_resize.JPG
IMG_48258_resize.JPG

IMG_48266_resize.JPG

Regards

Costas



thanks 5 users liked this useful post by ktsolias
Offline Ross  
#9 Posted : 30 November 2021 00:26:26(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 796
Location: Sydney, NSW


Hi Costas,

Nice conversion and documentation.





Ross
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Ross
Offline waterslip  
#10 Posted : 30 November 2021 01:40:20(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Wow Costas, this is amazing work with surgical precision and so well documented. I will get on it and study it right away,
Question:
1. Do the lights switch automatically when changing train direction ?
2. Can I use decoder 60976 instead, if so where does the Orange wire U(+) in your schematics go to ?
3. For the LED’s is it these kind, they are 2 mm ?
4. In your attached diagram I noticed you added the resistor on the cathode (negative) side, is that correct ?

Here is the 60976:
830A5566-EE48-4D0B-B5B8-01DDBF24F493.jpeg

2mm micro LED:
3EF8C92D-610A-438D-8EEF-F5F52F0B485E.jpeg
Offline ktsolias  
#11 Posted : 30 November 2021 09:39:00(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 554
Location: Athens
Originally Posted by: waterslip Go to Quoted Post
Wow Costas, this is amazing work with surgical precision and so well documented. I will get on it and study it right away,
Question:
1. Do the lights switch automatically when changing train direction ?
2. Can I use decoder 60976 instead, if so where does the Orange wire U(+) in your schematics go to ?
3. For the LED’s is it these kind, they are 2 mm ?
4. In your attached diagram I noticed you added the resistor on the cathode (negative) side, is that correct ?

Here is the 60976:
830A5566-EE48-4D0B-B5B8-01DDBF24F493.jpeg

2mm micro LED:
3EF8C92D-610A-438D-8EEF-F5F52F0B485E.jpeg


Hi
Thank you for your comments

1. The red lights are on AUX 1 and AUX 2 respectively. So are independent from the white lights. How they are working is a mater of function mapping.
My mapping is as follows
F1 = AUX 1: (reverse) + AUX 2: (forward). Both negative logic.
That means: when the loco start the Red lights go on according to the direction of movement independent from the front/rear lights.
If we want the reds of just activate F1. (No red glow when there are wagons connected).
The mapping can change according to your taste

By the way what controller do you have?

2. The 60976 has exactly the same base plate. The U+ is the white.
My color code is a bit strange. I basically use Märklin expect for AUX 1 and AUX 2 I used NEM (AUX1=green, AUX2=violet) because the Märklin wires are to thick.

3. Yes they are. In some cases I used SMD with a piece of light fiber in the front.

4. Yes always the resistor is on the cathode, except in some cases (swiss light changeover) where I need special behavior of the LEDs.

Always do the drilling on the plastic housings by hand and not with a power drill (damage on the plastic) or with a drill at very low revs. I do the drilling manually.

The cables of the Märklin decoder plate are too thick for the space of this loco. So better to use ESU cables at least for the frond and rear lighting.

regards

Costas






thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ktsolias
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#12 Posted : 30 November 2021 11:11:58(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,191
Location: New Zealand
You could make up a board for mounting the LED's out of veroboard such as this one here.

The picture shows surface mount led's being used.

Capture.JPG
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline waterslip  
#13 Posted : 30 November 2021 19:26:00(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Hi Costas,
For the equipment I only have a Märklin 6021, which I am planning on using for a while as I’m still a beginner in this and want to learn gradually.

For remapping of functions I don’t have any additional hardware to do so, I actually have another loco with ESU LokSound decoder which I was able to remap the functions just using the 6021.

Should I consider an ESU Decoder instead ?

For the U+ I checked for a white cable, there isn’t one. There is only brown/white which is on AUX4.

But there are three “+Ub” on the board and are orange orange, is it one of them? Which one should I select ?

Thank you,
Offline ktsolias  
#14 Posted : 30 November 2021 20:55:28(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 554
Location: Athens
I don't know if you can change the function mapping with the 6021. I sold mine years ago.

The mapping of the new LokSound 5 as far as I know can changed only with ESU equipment.

Is possible other members to have experience. I use for years CS3 or ESU LokProgrammer.

Yes the +Ub is the one. There are 4 coming out from the base plate and are all the same.

One is near the yellow wire (rear lights) the other near the gray (front lights) and two are in series with the AUX soldering pads. You use the more convenient. In the plan there is just one but is theoretical paln. All are the same +18V.

Costas
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ktsolias
Offline waterslip  
#15 Posted : 04 December 2021 18:48:57(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Quebec, Montreal
Hello Costas,
Thank you for the feedback, after doing some research on what you've described and the parts you used, I seem to have a better understanding :

1. I eventually will need to upgrade to a CS3 for better function mapping and customization, but for now if I want to make it work on my 6021 using the f0 function, can I connect it as so ?:

Front (Gray cable): 3 front White LED's and 2 back Red LED
On the Back (Yellow cable): 3 Rear White LED's and 2 front Red LED.
So as long as the F0 is ON: 3 front whites are ON and 2 rear Red's are ON, when I reverse direction 3 Rear Whites are ON and 2 Front Red's are ON

The wiring would look something like this:

Proposed wiring diagram.png

2. So for the SMD LED's I see how you connected them to a vero board, (thank you BigDaddyNZ for the pic). I also noticed you had a similar approach in this conversion HERE. I will use SMD's instead if DIP LED's, but could not find a SMD 1205 (only 1206).

3. And last thing I noticed you used 2 inductors (E516520) on position I1, I2 but I don't where/how the're installed on the diagram.

Awaiting your response,
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by waterslip
Offline waterslip  
#16 Posted : 04 January 2022 03:21:12(UTC)
waterslip

Canada   
Joined: 19/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 54
Location: Quebec, Montreal

After many hours, and working with a very tiny space inside the train trying to fit so many wires; I finally got it done, it was no easy task but definitely rewarding. I would have liked to ensure there is no light bleeding between the headlights, but it's the best I can do. Thank you all for the support and guidance.

Front view, forward direction
thumbnail_IMG_6127.jpg

Front view, reverse direction
thumbnail_IMG_6128.jpg
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by waterslip
Offline marklinist5999  
#17 Posted : 04 January 2022 03:29:17(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 1,312
Location: Michigan, Troy
Great job!
Offline ktsolias  
#18 Posted : 04 January 2022 22:24:28(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 554
Location: Athens
That's a great job

Congratulations

Costas

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ktsolias
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2022, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.813 seconds.