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rschaffr		#101 Posted : 08 August 2008 20:30:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		I think it is quite unlikely that Marklin will include DCC in the CS2.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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ulf999		#102 Posted : 08 August 2008 20:44:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/05/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,908 Location: Stockholm, Sweden		Uhlenbrock it is then
		Ulf, American HO. www.goldenvalleyroute.com/
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Fredrik		#103 Posted : 08 August 2008 21:51:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 642		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DaleSchultz <br />and what data would you like to see in the direction back to the controller ? some things that would be useful: 1) loco is in contact with rail (ping) 2) decoder is overheating Things with no logical use for home layouts 3) current speed - controller already knows that 4) virtual address (for address resolution) - already been discussed ad nauseum 5) current address - controller already knows that 6) Function status - controller already knows that 7) Current location - implies additional complex location awareness mechanisms - we already have a simpler and robust system Hi, for #3 controller only know what speed it should have. I would really like a respond to that the engine received this info (like railcom). That would actually be useful - even more if it could (also) send ACTUAL speed on request (and now I mean speed in km/h or mph in scale speed - just like the 49961 Messwagen does - but only on request).
		Fredrik. *ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector + SwitchPilot + ECoSTerminal; *Z21 + Loconet + Digikeijs + MGP; **CS3+ + CdB (** coming soon...) WWW: MJ-fjärren
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rschaffr		#104 Posted : 08 August 2008 22:16:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,181 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Ulf: I have been seriously considering an Ecos, but the motorized knobs still worry me.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Fredrik		#105 Posted : 08 August 2008 22:23:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 642		But the knobs on the ECoS is actually really good...! **off topic**
		Fredrik. *ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector + SwitchPilot + ECoSTerminal; *Z21 + Loconet + Digikeijs + MGP; **CS3+ + CdB (** coming soon...) WWW: MJ-fjärren
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DasBert33		#106 Posted : 08 August 2008 23:10:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,272		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MJ-Teknik <br />But the knobs on the ECoS is actually really good...! **off topic** I second that! The knobs are definately not something to be afraid of. I suggest you go try them at some dealer that has a demo setup and convince yourself. **way off topic too** BTW Fredrik, how long you think before ESU releases v 1.1.3? I'm wondering what the new features will be that they have announced...
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ulf999		#107 Posted : 08 August 2008 23:30:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/05/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,908 Location: Stockholm, Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr <br />Ulf: I have been seriously considering an Ecos, but the motorized knobs still worry me. also a valid option
		Ulf, American HO. www.goldenvalleyroute.com/
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DaleSchultz		#108 Posted : 08 August 2008 23:36:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997		>I would really like a respond to that the engine received this info (like railcom). yes I agree, an acknowledgement of each command would be very good.
		Dale Intellibox + own software, K-Track My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Bigdaddynz		#109 Posted : 09 August 2008 00:55:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Minibahn <br />Hello, have a look to the Marklin Homepage for Netherland. Here translated by Google. Scroll down : http://tinyurl.com/6y2nqc Which is a direct repeat of the information previously posted by Clapcott and myself, which you can read in proper English at www.toottoot.co.nz (or in my 2nd post of 2008/08/07 on page 1 of this thread).
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clapcott		#110 Posted : 09 August 2008 02:10:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,448 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Minibahn http://tinyurl.com/6y2nqc And like so many they have the Olympic colours wrong
		Peter
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nevw		#111 Posted : 09 August 2008 03:17:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		This has just been sent from Marklin (A with ") to dealers on the bottom half of the world. (The best part) As has been rumored for a while in the market, we are right at the end of the development of a new digital cental controller. This is once again our own development at Märklin, and it will be sold in future under the familiar brand Märklin Digital. This central controller will set the direction for an independent digital future in the years ahead and will make us once again an independent manufacturer of products in the area of digital technology
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Bigdaddynz		#112 Posted : 09 August 2008 03:26:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		So, they are dropping the 'Systems' brand, going back to Märklin Digital and doing everything themselves. By an 'independent digital future' I take it to mean Märklin will be developing their own proprietary stuff, so my guess is no DCC. Note that the release says they are at the 'end of the development', so maybe we will see something soon. As long as it is backward compatible (I'm sure it will be), and they bring it to market on time with no delays, issues, or components missing, maybe it will be a turning point with Märklin after years of uncertainty. If I can plug my current CS into the CST2 as a remote controller, that would certainly be an attractive feature. Perhaps also wireless remotes, a train identification / location system (a la Lissy, but better - regardless of what Dale says), removal of the 256 solenoid decoder limit, and a MS that can control more than 10 locos would be attractive features.
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Goofy		#113 Posted : 09 August 2008 19:07:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,273		Marklin will soon giving out catalog under autumn. So if there will been standing something about the CST2 in catalog,then in case it will been realesed product. If not less,then in case under Nurnbergmesse 2009...? When will catalog for year 2009 soon arrived out...? Goofy
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Minibahn		#114 Posted : 10 August 2008 17:39:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 137 Location: ,		Hello, You can see it at the Swiss Toy Fair in Bern, Switzerland in the first days of october 2008.
		Regards Charles
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john black		#115 Posted : 12 August 2008 14:29:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Minibahn You can see it at the Swiss Toy Fair in Bern, Switzerland in the first days of october 2008. This statement is as well and known just speculation. It was only mentioned that "some thing" might already be presented at the Suisse Toy. Jealous, huh ... Each time Charles comes up with great information you try to talk it bad ... [:(]
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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pa-pauls		#116 Posted : 12 August 2008 15:46:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,843 Location: Norway		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by john black Each time Charles comes up with great information you try to talk it bad ... [:(] Or does he actually try to tell us the correct news
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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David Dewar		#117 Posted : 12 August 2008 18:30:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,451 Location: Scotland		L Just trys to be clever. I dont care if Charles is right or wrong it is his own genuine information and being in Germany I would expect is pretty good. David
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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john black		#118 Posted : 12 August 2008 20:42:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Right, David. Since Charles is in the know he created this interesting topic (talk about more than 3,000 hits in only one week) FTOG lots of brouhaha w/o substance. Those who come late are punished by history ... [}:)] BTW, it will be interesting to observe how M will try talking us into another new controller [|)][xx(] If they were clever they would sell Gators, Crocs and F7s ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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David Dewar		#119 Posted : 12 August 2008 21:50:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,451 Location: Scotland		Hi John I take your point about a new controller. The problem M has had in my view is that the CS did not do a good enough job to replace the 6021. The idea was OK but it just did not deliver without costly upgrades and a lack of boosters. I have put much of the blame on ESU as the manufacturer but at the end of the day it is Ms name on the box. If they can come up with something new which will replace the 6021 for use on larger layouts and with more facilities for control and functions and which is reliable and complete from the outset then I think it will sell and perhaps put the old CS in its proper place as an idea which did not quite work. I would like to see a top class gator for next years main model (I dont like the concept of an insider model which reduces sales although increases profit on that model) That along with some really good start sets could give the business a much needed boost. David
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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john black		#120 Posted : 12 August 2008 22:30:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by David Dewar <br />I would like to see a top class gator for next years main model (I dont like the concept of an insider model which reduces sales) Right again, David - they just have to follow the money ...
		I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Bigdaddynz		#121 Posted : 13 August 2008 00:28:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		Crocogators rule!!
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kgsjoqvist		#122 Posted : 13 August 2008 12:00:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 754 Location: Täby		The CS is really a nightmare for Märklin. While the Mobile Station has been well received on the market, the CS has had all sorts of problems. It is not a bad design, but delivery problems and the fact that it was not a finished product when they started selling it has been a disaster. All those things that should have been included from the beginning had to be added later (computer interface, route control etc) at a huge cost. Probably the brand name Märklin has taken a lot of damage from this. If the "CSII" will make a success, it will have to be based on the bad experiences from the first try. Colour TFT screen is a nice upgrade, and the entire design change is a sign that Märklin wants to start up again from scratch. But I really hope the DCC protocol is included this time. In that case they could use the same CS for Trix as well... I was actually planning to buy a CS in the near future, but now I'm waiting to see. Either the new version will be available or i could buy an "old" but upgraded CS cheaper...
		K-G / H0 and Z model train user
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Bigdaddynz		#123 Posted : 13 August 2008 12:21:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		Re DCC on the CST2, can anyone tell me what protocol LGB digital trains require? If it is DCC, that, along with Trix's requirement for DCC, may convince Marklin to include DCC on the CST2. Time will tell I guess.
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Bigdaddynz		#124 Posted : 13 August 2008 12:32:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by kgsjoqvist But I really hope the DCC protocol is included this time. Yes - in the version with green knobs. Maybe so Lutz, but I think what everyone here is wanting / hoping for is one Marklin branded unit with DCC, MM2, mfx, and whatever new protocol they come up with...
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Tivvy		#125 Posted : 13 August 2008 14:31:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 414 Location: Melbourne, Victoria		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by kgsjoqvist But I really hope the DCC protocol is included this time. Yes - in the version with green knobs. Maybe so Lutz, but I think what everyone here is wanting / hoping for is one Marklin branded unit with DCC, MM2, mfx, and whatever new protocol they come up with... Indeed. The green knobbed version doesnt have MM, MM2, mfx AFAIK [}:)][xx(]
		Ep IV / V Marklin Layout 6 track dead end station, twin track loop, 4 track through station. Under construction.
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Goofy		#126 Posted : 13 August 2008 19:13:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,273		You can also have both red and green knobs on the CST2,which means MM/Mfx and DCC in the Central Station. Goofy
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Goofy		#127 Posted : 13 August 2008 19:15:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,273		T2 stands for turbo in twice of way...! The first turbo is the red knob and the second turbo for the green knob...[:o)] Goofy
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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RayF		#128 Posted : 13 August 2008 19:25:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Maybe so Lutz, but I think what everyone here is wanting / hoping for is one Marklin branded unit with DCC, MM2, mfx, and whatever new protocol they come up with... Please don't speak for everyone. I have absolutely no interest in having DCC included in a Marklin control unit. I have no objection to whoever wants it buying a DCC only version, but I prefer not having the extra complication. If you do Marklin, you don't need DCC, because Marklin don't make anything that runs with DCC. Even the other manufacturers put MM decoders in their 3 rail products. Keep the 2 systems seperate and it should be more reliable and cheaper too. Ray
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Goofy		#129 Posted : 13 August 2008 19:39:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,273		You are missing here in one point: Many customer has become satisfaction to have both MM and DCC protocoll in the digitalcomponents like Intellibox or and Ecos. Marklin know and should make sure to understand,that it´s customer in the market who makes big difference by choising digitalcomponent. Goofy
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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jeehring		#130 Posted : 13 August 2008 21:54:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by David Dewar <br />...(...)...the CS did not do a good enough job to replace the 6021. The idea was OK but it just did not deliver without costly upgrades and a lack of boosters. I have put much of the blame on ESU as the manufacturer but at the end of the day it is Ms name on the box. ...(...)... David Agree . It was not a limited agreement similar to a simple " sale/purchase" act . From what I know , At the beginning Marklin intended to leave the whole " digital developments" Department in ESU's care .( to entrust the whole department to ESU ) At the moment they decided it , the partnership between Marklin & ESU also came with a contractual obligations period of several years. ( concerning developpments , updates and "maintenance" & things like that + many other...) So the situation was not easy . Today the nightmare is ending . ( that's what we may say today , I believe...)
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steventrain		#131 Posted : 13 August 2008 23:56:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,686 Location: United Kingdom		The 60212 Central station (CS1) may be out of production and very limited supply.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Bigdaddynz		#132 Posted : 14 August 2008 00:26:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas <br /> Maybe so Lutz, but I think what everyone here is wanting / hoping for is one Marklin branded unit with DCC, MM2, mfx, and whatever new protocol they come up with... Please don't speak for everyone. I have absolutely no interest in having DCC included in a Marklin control unit. I have no objection to whoever wants it buying a DCC only version, but I prefer not having the extra complication. If you do Marklin, you don't need DCC, because Marklin don't make anything that runs with DCC. Even the other manufacturers put MM decoders in their 3 rail products. Keep the 2 systems seperate and it should be more reliable and cheaper too. Ray Ray, what I meant was those that want DCC with their Marklin would want it included in their CST2's. I myself have no need for DCC, I have Marklin or Marklin compatible locos only. 'Everyone' in this context means those wanting the DCC protocol available on their controllers. Please don't take my comments out of context!
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Bigdaddynz		#133 Posted : 14 August 2008 00:27:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas Please don't speak for everyone. He can't and even knows it. P*ss off Lutz! Please add something of value to the discussion or SHUTUP!
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pa-pauls		#134 Posted : 14 August 2008 00:49:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,843 Location: Norway		Maybe ALL of you should cool of [:I] And get back to topic Throwing sh-t at each other or talking bad about each other is not wanted and now it is ENOUGH [}:)]
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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Bigdaddynz		#135 Posted : 14 August 2008 01:06:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		I'm not talking bad about anyone. I'm simply saying to the guy 'Add something of value to the topic, or be quiet!' (BTW, people who know me will know that this is not how I would normally speak to someone).
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David Dewar		#136 Posted : 14 August 2008 01:21:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,451 Location: Scotland		If the new CS has DCC included then it will increase sales as can be seen on the forum here by the number who wish this. My own view is that I do not need DCC but I respect the view of those who do and with this function included then the new CS will provide competition for the IB and ECOS etc. I expect Marklin will not have the DCC facility which for me is fine but for Marklin is probably a mistake. I dont know what the difference would be but would it really be complicated. Both David & Ray have a point of view which is fine (spoiled of course as usual by the smart remarks which as said bring nothing to the discussion) I can see the point that Marklin wish to continue to be different and only time will tell if they are going down the right road. David
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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perz		#137 Posted : 14 August 2008 01:35:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC) Posts: 2,578 Location: Sweden		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by David Dewar <br />If the new CS has DCC included then it will increase sales as can be seen on the forum here by the number who wish this. My own view is that I do not need DCC but I respect the view of those who do and with this function included then the new CS will provide competition for the IB and ECOS etc. I expect Marklin will not have the DCC facility which for me is fine but for Marklin is probably a mistake. I dont know what the difference would be but would it really be complicated. Both David & Ray have a point of view which is fine (spoiled of course as usual by the smart remarks which as said bring nothing to the discussion) I can see the point that Marklin wish to continue to be different and only time will tell if they are going down the right road. David I think the smartest thing Märklin could do would be to not add DCC themselves but to open up the possibility to load 3-rd party SW that could take care of DCC support and similar things. That way they could "support" it without really having to take the responsibility for it.
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David Dewar		#138 Posted : 14 August 2008 01:50:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,451 Location: Scotland		Perz good idea. Not sure how that would effect the warranty. Could thay not just buy in the software themselves and sell it as an add on. Having just (I presume but dont know) left ESU I expect they wont want to tie up with anybody similar. I think it would be a good way to go though .. maybe we need you at M Perz. david
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Bigdaddynz		#139 Posted : 14 August 2008 02:58:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		I would suspect that the DCC code would already be in the codeset for the CST2 (and indeed the CS), simply because the Trix version would require it. Marklin would then just enable mfx and disable DCC for the Marklin CST2 in the code, and for the Trix CST2, disable mfx and enable DCC. Saves managing 2 codesets.
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Webmaster		#140 Posted : 14 August 2008 03:15:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,165		Yep, that would be the way to go... Same hardware, different software... Why not see the CS/CST2 as a M-branded HW-box and then offer SW downloads for main use of mfx/MM or DCC/Selectrix and even "open" it for 3rd party SW implementations... The color of the knobs is not really essential... Then suddenly it could maybe be an interesting HW platform also for other manufacturers/independents to use for train control... Even DCC manufacturers could offer the CST2 with their own software with "Märklin proven hardware technology" instead of inventing the wheel over and over again...
		Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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kbvrod		#141 Posted : 14 August 2008 04:53:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,597 Location: Beverly, MA		Hi all, Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas Please don't speak for everyone. He can't and even knows it. Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:I have absolutely no interest in having DCC included in a Marklin control unit. I have no objection to whoever wants it buying a DCC only version, but I prefer not having the extra complication. Neiher do most other Märklin customers - luckily and now really important - Märklin knows this very well. [^] Well,since certain people,think others are speaking for them,let me just say,I'm speaking for myself,happy? DCC,why is so wrong with having the option?That, Märklin answered years ago,... Funny thing happened on the way to the digital forum.My IB,had this feature built in.Upgrades were done over the internet,one of the designers/creators had a forum and answered my emails about questions/problems I had, ten years ago!!! Got to like 'progress',yup,... Auntie Lu,let's talk,shall we about M?The company that went belly up,kaput,bought by the bean counters,who recently know it's times to bail,yes, they know everything soooo well. So, if we want to speculate,so what?If your trying mind control,don't quit your day job. Dr D
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Tivvy		#142 Posted : 14 August 2008 06:45:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 414 Location: Melbourne, Victoria		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Bigdaddynz <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas <br /> Maybe so Lutz, but I think what everyone here is wanting / hoping for is one Marklin branded unit with DCC, MM2, mfx, and whatever new protocol they come up with... Please don't speak for everyone. I have absolutely no interest in having DCC included in a Marklin control unit. I have no objection to whoever wants it buying a DCC only version, but I prefer not having the extra complication. If you do Marklin, you don't need DCC, because Marklin don't make anything that runs with DCC. Even the other manufacturers put MM decoders in their 3 rail products. Keep the 2 systems seperate and it should be more reliable and cheaper too. Ray Ray, what I meant was those that want DCC with their Marklin would want it included in their CST2's. I myself have no need for DCC, I have Marklin or Marklin compatible locos only. 'Everyone' in this context means those wanting the DCC protocol available on their controllers. Please don't take my comments out of context! I think they were my comments BigDaddy but your response is the correct one. In this context 'everyone' refers to those posting in this topic regarding DCC compatibility. I also make it clear that this is MY interpretation of their posts (and my own opinion on DCC compatibility). I was merely trying to clarify the stated fact to Lutz as his post about DCC being available in the "Green Knobbed Version" merely stated (IMO) that it would not satify these people as the Green Knobbed version would NOT have MM/mfx support AS WELL.[:I] Caillin Edit - Also, in response to Ray's comments: Many of the MM decoders in locos from "2-rail manufacturers" also include DCC support which can provide more speed steps for smoother running Hence I would prefer to use the DCC format with these decoders. DCC loco decoders with plenty of function outputs, function decoders, turnout decoders etc are also VERY cheap compared to M* decoders where I live so installing them in coaches/upgraded (by myself to 3-rail operation from 2-rail) is MUCH cheaper for me.[B)]
		Ep IV / V Marklin Layout 6 track dead end station, twin track loop, 4 track through station. Under construction.
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Bigdaddynz		#143 Posted : 14 August 2008 10:16:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		Thanks for the clarification Caillin, much appreciated. I can see why people would want DCC on their Marklin controllers, and to me it makes sense to do so, even though I don't at this point have a use for it. Sure, it might mean Marklin don't sell as many decoders or turnout decoders, but they might sell more controllers as a result. For many years IBM tried to make the PC architecture proprietary, but when they allowed it to be opened up, sales and innovation went through the roof. There's a lesson for Marklin there somewhere, although some here on this forum might not think so or want to know.
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RayF		#144 Posted : 14 August 2008 10:46:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		OK, maybe I'm in a minority on this thread, but I still think I speak for most Marklin users out there. I don't see the point in Marklin making a controller which has the capability to control products not made by them. I think, if you like DCC, buy 2 rail DCC. You have an almost infinite supply of manufacturers out there. You can even buy the Trix central station if you want "Marklin quality" If what you want, like me, is the uniqueness of the Marklin 3 rail system, then I prefer using components which are specifically designed for the system. "Open" systems which cater for all just open the door to a large number of sub-standard 3rd parties making components in grubby little basements. These components then compromise the reliability of the complete system. The end result is the fiasco we have with ESU for example. I know some of you won't agree with what I've written, but we all have our opinions. I'll leave this thread now. I was hoping for an unbiased discussion, but as usual the DCC fanatics take over. Ray
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Tivvy		#145 Posted : 14 August 2008 10:51:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 414 Location: Melbourne, Victoria		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas <br />OK, maybe I'm in a minority on this thread, but I still think I speak for most Marklin users out there. I don't see the point in Marklin making a controller which has the capability to control products not made by them. I think, if you like DCC, buy 2 rail DCC. You have an almost infinite supply of manufacturers out there. You can even buy the Trix central station if you want "Marklin quality" If what you want, like me, is the uniqueness of the Marklin 3 rail system, then I prefer using components which are specifically designed for the system. "Open" systems which cater for all just open the door to a large number of sub-standard 3rd parties making components in grubby little basements. These components then compromise the reliability of the complete system. The end result is the fiasco we have with ESU for example. I know some of you won't agree with what I've written, but we all have our opinions. I'll leave this thread now. I was hoping for an unbiased discussion, but as usual the DCC fanatics take over. Ray I dont see many advantages with DCC other than their availability over here in Australia. If M* could find a way to get me decoders at a competitive price then I wouldnt even consider DCC but when retail for a M* compatible (european manufactured) decoder is about 4 times the cost of a DCC decoder it becomes really hard to justify buying M* decoders and hence a controler that would only be capable of controling them.[xx(]
		Ep IV / V Marklin Layout 6 track dead end station, twin track loop, 4 track through station. Under construction.
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Bigdaddynz		#146 Posted : 14 August 2008 11:16:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		Sorry Ray but I'm not a 'DCC fanatic', as I explained all my locos are Marklin, bar one which is a Roco AC model. However I can see the benefit in open systems. Look at how well the Intellibox has done. Secondly as far as the 'large number of sub-standard 3rd parties making components in grubby little basements' are concerned, well they won't last long if they make bad product as no one will buy them. I'm not saying that Marklin will even think about putting DCC in the CST2, however the only factor I see there is which controller Marklin expect you to use with LGB, if LGB have DCC decoders. If they want you to buy a Marklin branded CST2 to control your LGB kit, they may put DCC in the CST2. Otherwise they may well convert LGB decoders to some other protocol. Who knows? Time will tell.
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RayF		#147 Posted : 14 August 2008 11:26:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Sorry, Bigdaddy, I didn't mean to label you! Apologies all round. I'm not having a good day. Ray
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Bigdaddynz		#148 Posted : 14 August 2008 12:07:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		No worries Ray. I'm sure you must have another one of those fabulous locos you keep buying not too far away. I'm sure that will brighten your day up.
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David Dewar		#149 Posted : 14 August 2008 14:00:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,451 Location: Scotland		Hi Guys good to see the discussion continuing. As I said i agree mainly with Ray as I am happy with Marklin as it is but i also see the point that by making DCC available this would increase sales which is just what M needs. I think the compromise by buying a CS which can be upgraded to DCC at a later date if required would be a good way to go but unlikely to happen. Ray no need to apologise your comments are always welcome on the forum. David Which Roco do you have and how do you find it compared to M (Slight diversion from topic sorry) David
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Bigdaddynz		#150 Posted : 14 August 2008 14:48:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,764 Location: New Zealand		Hi David. I have the Roco 69685 BR182 Tauras in DB traffic red livery. It runs very smooth and quiet, and runs around my M track layout with no issues. It seems to pull OK, but I'm not too sure how long the plastic gears will last for, time will tell. The decoder supports 28 speed steps, and the manual has details of which CV's can be changed, all of which are easily programmed with a 6021. Others have commented about Roco locos how bits seem to fall off them when they are first taken out of the box, and mine was no different, with one of the buffers falling off. A dab of superglue fixed that. I haven't attached any of the addon plastic bits, as I'm to scared I will break them, they seem quite fine pieces. Overall I'm quite pleased with it, but I don't think it is up to Marklin standards, but then it wasn't a Marklin price either. Macca was here on Tuesday night and he liked it too. If you look at my photo of my BR64 in the BR64 thread and the 'How many Locos have you got' thread, you can see the Tauras in the background. I guess I can take some better pictures of it if any one is interested. Yikes, thunder, lightning and very heavy rain here, as I write this. Must be bed time!
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