I believe it is fantasy.

I painted the earlier version, 4413, brown to look less fantastic:

https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com/2015/11/Kippwagen-4513.html

I have three of these and I have also painted them brown, though in real life this type of wagon could be any colour, including "deep rust"

It has certainly changed a lot over time. I think the red tipper has always been plastic, but the end support pieces were originally metal. The very earliest ones had a little latch that you pulled up vertically to release the tipper so it will tip sideways.

Later on there was some spring latch arrangement so the hand operated latch was no longer needed. Later the plastic support version that RayF has shown arrived on the scene - but I don't know just when this change was made.

Of more recent time the tipper has been released in various colours, one of the Start Up add-on sets had three wagons with different coloured tippers, none of them red, IIRC there was blue, yellow and green. There have also been versions with a black tipper in some start sets.

The metal framed version of this wagon was the 4513, which was in the catalogue until 1976. Around that time all 45xx wagons were being replaced by the all-plastic 44xx series, and in 1977 the 4413 appeared for the first time.

The hopper itself was used also in the Minex narrow gauge range as a double unit, and this double unit also appeared in the Gauge 1 range.

Minex - 4459


Gauge 1 - 5859

There was also the Silver one from 1953 only, not painted but actual silver plastic - very hard to find by all accounts....

Hi Cookee,

I only know and have cars made of black plastic, sprayed silver. I have never seen cars made of silver plastic.

Regards

Markus

When I studied Zulu, I learned that they were called "ingolovane". Which is the diminutive of inqola which is a cart or small wagon. (Also means ant.)

Plural would be Izingolovane. Sometimes the word is also used for a wheelbarrow.

Now, the locative form ("place of ") of Izingolovane is Izingolweni, and in southern Natal there is a narrow gauge railway that used to be powered with steam garret locos and one of the stations is Izingolweni - the place of the little carts.....

My grandfather, who worked at a colliery in the 1920s in SA, made a cocopan cart out of brass by hand. I took some pictures:




I forgot to measure, but I think the track is about 25mm wide.

Thanks for the expanded explanation. The word 'ingolovane' is clearly cognate to 'nqukumbana' with the 'ingola' bit represented by 'nquku' and 'vane' by 'bana', taking into account the phonetic representation of sound shifts between dialects/languages. The b/v shift occurs in some European languages, e.g. Habana/Havana.
But I think I'll stick to cocopans
Jabez

Well you would if you had read the whole thread instead of just the last post.
RTFB or even in this case RTFT is always good advice.

Have you read post #134 ?? https://www.marklin-user...Abbreviations#post591088

Or is it that you just don't respect it ??

Per.

Just a note to everyone please, and no one in particular - we are a community of friends, with a common interest.

There is a growing tendency toward sarcasm in some replies, when it would be far more pleasant for all if someone has made an error, (missed a particular posting for example), to simply give a link to that article or to the overlooked portion.

One sarcastic or discourteous reply often leads to another one in response, and the next thing it's a war of words between two people who at any other time could be happily enjoying some aspect of their shared hobby together.

And sometimes, the answers are easily found outside the forum - ie 'cocopans' - I got from the gist of the thread what they were, but I just googled it anyway to confirm;

cocopan in British (ˈkəʊkəʊˌpæn ) noun
(in South Africa) a small wagon running on narrow-gauge railway lines used in mines
Also called: hopper
Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers
Word origin of 'cocopan'
C20: from Zulu 'ngkumbana short truck

So I've learnt something here also. It comes from a Zulu word, that's interesting. I quite like it. This remains an English-speaking forum, with plenty of words 'borrowed' from other languages to add flavour, and when those words are common or even unique to a particular region/country etc, and the person using the word is from the same region then the use is perfectly valid for context.

I was just quickly trying to think of a uniquely 'Kiwi' word for something railway-related but it escapes me for now.

RTFM BTW means "Read The Forgotten Manual" or any other relevant 'f' word that most easily fits your own vocabulary

I'll leave you to bring to mind and ponder the famous quote from Bambi, which I'm sure almost everyone already knows, having already been told it by their Mothers!!

Not sure whether I enjoyed most the linguistics, the conversion, the brass model, the silver colour one (there is one on ebay at the moment, whether it's original or not I cannot say - EDIT - NO, I think it's grey, not silver - sorry!) or the brown-painted ones, which look much better than the original red. The result is that as I had read this thread without the morning coffee having kicked in, I am now waiting for five of the things to be delivered...

And yet another possibility:

https://eisenbahnstiftung.de/ima.../bildergalerie/26753.jpg

"So auch dieser Schadwagen der RBD Stuttgart, der für die Zuckerrübenverladung benutzt wurde."
("So also this Schadwagen [from] the RBD Stuttgart, which was used for the sugar beet loading.")

with an upper ramp level for some 4413 from the outlying farms..."oh what a tangled web [I] weave"

Jimmy

I also found this as another possibility for running 4413s...scroll down to: "Bringing up the Grapes to make Wine in Germany"...just for fun...

https://www.carendt.com/small-la...1-mid-month-bonus-issue/






The Wonderful World of 4413 and its variations!

Edited by user 26 May 2025 13:26:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

That's what I'm thinking!!! I have my Bordeaux wine barrel cars all lined up for the finished product...and...

And there is also the ÖBB KLVM set 28723 with a cement-gray color for Perlmooser Zementwerke (although I do reailze that most zementwerke products use covered hoppers or silowagen...there might be some items and raw materials that can be moved in open tippers...p. s. looking for the pics )

https://marnan.eu/artikel/65503/...2-stoomlok-treinset.html



All manner of possibilities with our 4413s

Not sure if these tip or not (Heidelberger Zement in Kiefersfelden) - pretty close though:

...or scrap concrete to be recycled into aggregate perhaps, or ground finer to be reused at the zementwerke? Just ideas.

So, one could use the 4413 for a works train: in-fill on "Gleisbau" (although it also appears there may be a bit of an "Ooops" going on here... ), still within the realm (about half-way down the page)


https://itoldya420.getar.../files+from+sbb+historic