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Marklin made in China?
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H0
#451
Posted :
03 May 2024 11:16:31(UTC)
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: steventrain
I have 18045 from Local dealer via Marklin Germany for Gaugemaster.
I double check on box - not see any Made in China sticker.
Märklin add the "Made in ..." stickers for US exports, not for all non-EU exports.
Dealers "down under" also know it from the customs documents, but final customers do not see those stickers either.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize
a high level of quality
, the
best possible fidelity to the prototype
, and
absolute precision
. You will see that
in all of our products
." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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steventrain
#452
Posted :
04 May 2024 12:50:10(UTC)
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Location: United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: H0
Originally Posted by: steventrain
I have 18045 from Local dealer via Marklin Germany for Gaugemaster.
I double check on box - not see any Made in China sticker.
Märklin add the "Made in ..." stickers for US exports, not for all non-EU exports.
Dealers "down under" also know it from the customs documents, but final customers do not see those stickers either.
Thanks for letting me know. I am lucky with with 18045.
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TrainIride
#453
Posted :
05 May 2024 19:38:39(UTC)
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Hi,
got this on my 29453
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H0
#454
Posted :
06 May 2024 08:58:15(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: TrainIride
got this on my 29453
START UP
Container Train Starter Set:
I have "Made in China" printed on the box of my 36243 class 24 loco. There is no "Made in..." on the box of the later 36244 class 24 loco.
So yes, there are "Made in..." prints on the boxes of some items, mainly entry level items with the colourful boxes.
But you do not find "Made in..." prints on the high-price grey boxes for the "professional" collectors, as Märklin call us freaks who spend huge amounts of money on small rolling stock.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize
a high level of quality
, the
best possible fidelity to the prototype
, and
absolute precision
. You will see that
in all of our products
." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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#455
Posted :
06 May 2024 12:19:09(UTC)
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Location: Scotland
I really dont care where Markklin is made as long as it works as described. Life is too short to spend time looking at labels on boxes amd anyway we appear to make almost nothing in the UK so about everything I buy is made in China` or some other country. As our locos get more complicated with sounds and lights etc chances are there will be more going wrong but so far I have been OK with what I buy.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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H0
#456
Posted :
06 May 2024 14:26:04(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: David Dewar
I really dont care where Markklin is made as long as it works as described.
What makes an item a "Märklin item"?
A Tillig car sold in a Märklin box is still a Tillig item with respect to philosophy and quality.
A Piko car sold in a Märklin box is still a Piko item with respect to philosophy and quality.
How about "Märklin" locomotives designed by Far-east companies and produced by Far-east companies?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize
a high level of quality
, the
best possible fidelity to the prototype
, and
absolute precision
. You will see that
in all of our products
." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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#457
Posted :
06 May 2024 14:39:15(UTC)
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Location: Michigan, Troy
Well, then it would really be Chinese, I guess. My brother in law has a Jeep design team in Shanghai, but I don't know for which market they do it for. He also has a few Cihnese designers and engineers here.
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#458
Posted :
07 May 2024 22:41:13(UTC)
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Location: Just north of London
Marklin make their models in China. I got it in writing from Marklin.
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QQQ1970
#459
Posted :
08 May 2024 00:02:21(UTC)
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Location: Ontario, Toronto
Does it mean Märklin owns a Chinese factory like Piko, or outsources to a third party for assembly?
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H0
#460
Posted :
08 May 2024 08:29:07(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: QQQ1970
Does it mean Märklin owns a Chinese factory like Piko, or outsources to a third party for assembly?
Märklin do not have factories outside Europe, they rely on subcontractors - or on subcontractors of subcontractors.
It seems they outsource much more than just assembly. Chinese companies also can do zinc die-casting, as we learned from Köf II and Seetal-Krokodil..
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize
a high level of quality
, the
best possible fidelity to the prototype
, and
absolute precision
. You will see that
in all of our products
." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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#461
Posted :
08 May 2024 23:44:20(UTC)
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Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
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Location: Burney, CA
Originally Posted by: H0
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970
Does it mean Märklin owns a Chinese factory like Piko, or outsources to a third party for assembly?
Märklin do not have factories outside Europe, they rely on subcontractors - or on subcontractors of subcontractors.
It seems they outsource much more than just assembly. Chinese companies also can do zinc die-casting, as we learned from Köf II and Seetal-Krokodil..
I think that the Seetal-Krok and the Kof II are examples of Chinese companies NOT doing zinc die casting!!!
I believe that most models are made in Europe, but some of the more complex steamers, such as the wave of "surprise" models are outsourced to Asia.
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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#462
Posted :
09 May 2024 01:46:39(UTC)
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Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
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Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: mrmarklin
I believe that most models are made in Europe, but some of the more complex steamers, such as the wave of "surprise" models are outsourced to Asia.
Exactly!
I primarily collect Märklin's more highly detailed and richly functioned locos, which are always expensive. With some exceptions that means that the majority of my models purchased in the last 6-7 years have all been made in China. I have found that all of the Insider models and many other locos are made in Germany, most coaches are made in Hungary, and the special models primarily come from Asian sources.
When I first learned that my new top line Märklin loco was not made in Germany, I asked this forum why? After all, I buy Märklin models for German engineering and production quality. The wise response was that I would not have been able to afford that loco and it would have been less elaborate if it had been made in Germany. That made perfect sense to me and I eventually stopped caring where they are made as long as they are madel well.
Because of that I am amazed that there is still a controversy about Chinese production of Märklin models. If I excluded them I would have bought less than half of my new locos for some time now.
I find their quality to generally be equivalent to the European made models, but I am still very glad that my Northlander is German model.
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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QQQ1970
#463
Posted :
09 May 2024 18:14:13(UTC)
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Location: Ontario, Toronto
How do you know Northlander is made in Germany?
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#464
Posted :
09 May 2024 18:33:45(UTC)
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Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: QQQ1970
How do you know Northlander is made in Germany?
Well, I guess I don't know for sure, but as far as I know all of the Insider locos have always been made in Germany.
If someone knows one way or the other on Insider models I would love to hear that.
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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#465
Posted :
09 May 2024 22:53:53(UTC)
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I just found this. Perhaps it will help with this discussion. I am assuming this is currently in effect. I just bought the Insider Lok
39583 and it states, Made in Germany.
Most H0-gauge trains are built from scratch out of basic elements — zinc alloy, steel, plastic pellets and paint — in the Göppingen plant, allowing Märklin to mark these models “Made in Germany.” Parts for other models are made in Göppingen and then assembled in the Hungarian plant.
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#466
Posted :
10 May 2024 01:57:54(UTC)
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Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: petestra
Most H0-gauge trains are built from scratch out of basic elements — zinc alloy, steel, plastic pellets and paint — in the Göppingen plant, allowing Märklin to mark these models “Made in Germany.” Parts for other models are made in Göppingen and then assembled in the Hungarian plant.
What was the source for this?
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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H0
#467
Posted :
10 May 2024 08:41:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: petestra
Most H0-gauge trains are built from scratch out of basic elements — zinc alloy, steel, plastic pellets and paint — in the Göppingen plant, allowing Märklin to mark these models “Made in Germany.” Parts for other models are made in Göppingen and then assembled in the Hungarian plant.
Sounds like the standard text from their website.
They forgot to mention that some products come completely from third parties and the only metal parts made in Göppingen may be the center-rail slider and the coupler loop.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize
a high level of quality
, the
best possible fidelity to the prototype
, and
absolute precision
. You will see that
in all of our products
." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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#468
Posted :
10 May 2024 11:45:51(UTC)
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Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj
Originally Posted by: petestra
Most H0-gauge trains are built from scratch out of basic elements — zinc alloy, steel, plastic pellets and paint — in the Göppingen plant, allowing Märklin to mark these models “Made in Germany.” Parts for other models are made in Göppingen and then assembled in the Hungarian plant.
What was the source for this?
It was just a general Marklin internet search. (Bing).
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#469
Posted :
10 May 2024 11:47:28(UTC)
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Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 645
Location: England, South Coast
Not long ago I was driving a Mercedes, it was made in Mexico.
It worked OK.
Just saying...
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#470
Posted :
10 May 2024 12:01:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dickinsonj
Because of that I am amazed that there is still a controversy about Chinese production of Märklin models.
Some folks think that everything from Märklin is made in Germany because every box shows the address of the Göppingen headquarters.
When they find out about "Made in China", they sometimes are very disappointed.
I think this is not a problem of quality, but a problem of faith and transparency. How many times did I hear a Märklin CEO complaining about bad quality from China and about transfers of product lines from China to Europe. Their advertising speeches with split tongue sometimes fire back.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize
a high level of quality
, the
best possible fidelity to the prototype
, and
absolute precision
. You will see that
in all of our products
." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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#471
Posted :
10 May 2024 12:55:57(UTC)
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Yes, Audi and BMW have Mexican plants as well as Daimler ag. Certain models are assembled there and exported to the US and Europe.The ML class suv is only assembled in Alabama. Even ones for Europe.Final assembly is usually what is referred to as where something is made. Components and parts can be local and global sourced.
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Goofy
#472
Posted :
10 May 2024 13:22:32(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: H0
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj
Because of that I am amazed that there is still a controversy about Chinese production of Märklin models.
Some folks think that everything from Märklin is made in Germany because every box shows the address of the Göppingen headquarters.
When they find out about "Made in China", they sometimes are very disappointed.
I think this is not a problem of quality, but a problem of faith and transparency. How many times did I hear a Märklin CEO complaining about bad quality from China and about transfers of product lines from China to Europe. Their advertising speeches with split tongue sometimes fire back.
That is what it happens to me when i do have problem about Märklin products and somebody here in the forum speet at me with useless comments. Are Märklinist here too fool against by self? How can you even be sure that train models you buy are not made in Germany and have bad quality controls?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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#473
Posted :
10 May 2024 14:06:51(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: H0
I think this is not a problem of quality, but a problem of faith and transparency. How many times did I hear a Märklin CEO complaining about bad quality from China and about transfers of product lines from China to Europe. Their advertising speeches with split tongue sometimes fire back.
That is it exactly Tom. I don't find Märklin's Chinese made models to be inferior, but I find it odd that Märklin tries to hide the country of assembly.
I currently have a 39853 ET 85 on order and it will almost surely be made in China. That is fine by me, but I will only know because the US requires country of origin attribution. Most people will never know where there models are made, and why does Märklin find it necessary to hide that information?
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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#474
Posted :
10 May 2024 18:53:42(UTC)
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One comment, which has nothing to do with China vs not China, but rather decision making in a highly niche, capital intensive industry. (well, by hobby standards of course)
If you look closely, the items made in China are (mostly) quite niche, unique in their components or details, and items I would label prime for a 1 or 2 time production. The V200s of the world are seemingly coming from Europe.
If I were Marklin I'd do the same thing: outsource the whole project with a built-in margin based upon a fixed (conservative) volume they know they can sell. It is good business, and minimizes the risk. It also eliminates the up front costs, carrying costs, and even warehousing costs. For a model that was never going to be a "bread and butter" seller in the lineup, why not? Its a great way to expand the business. that being said, it is also a tempting way to cut a few design corners on things they know they won't be selling - or more importantly servicing- repetitively for the next 20 years.
This is all my suspicion, but grounded in logic. Marklin wins ($$), certain modelers win (getting a desired model that wouldn't exist otherwise) and the world moves along. Until you need a spare part in year 2055 of course...
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#475
Posted :
10 May 2024 21:27:11(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Goofy
Originally Posted by: H0
Originally Posted by: dickinsonj
Because of that I am amazed that there is still a controversy about Chinese production of Märklin models.
Some folks think that everything from Märklin is made in Germany because every box shows the address of the Göppingen headquarters.
When they find out about "Made in China", they sometimes are very disappointed.
I think this is not a problem of quality, but a problem of faith and transparency. How many times did I hear a Märklin CEO complaining about bad quality from China and about transfers of product lines from China to Europe. Their advertising speeches with split tongue sometimes fire back.
That is what it happens to me when i do have problem about Märklin products and somebody here in the forum speet at me with useless comments. Are Märklinist here too fool against by self? How can you even be sure that train models you buy are not made in Germany and have bad quality controls?
I think you have a good point Goofy. We can’t know for sure where any specific model or its components are made, and Märklin are not telling us.
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#476
Posted :
10 May 2024 21:53:04(UTC)
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I went with some friends to Toy Fair in Nürnberg ca. 2016 and we spoke with Florian Sieber himself. At that time the surprise models were being made in China. Most others were being made in the EU. Of course electronics…………..
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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#477
Posted :
11 May 2024 00:02:07(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mrmarklin
I went with some friends to Toy Fair in Nürnberg ca. 2016 and we spoke with Florian Sieber himself. At that time the surprise models were being made in China. Most others were being made in the EU. Of course electronics…………..
Or motors ............
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#478
Posted :
11 May 2024 09:37:09(UTC)
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Are Märklin trains 100% made of Märklin factory?
How can you be so sure about that?
You don´t!
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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#479
Posted :
12 May 2024 19:21:40(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Goofy
Are Märklin trains 100% made of Märklin factory?
How can you be so sure about that?
We can be 100% sure that not all "Märklin" trains are made in Märklin factories.
And we can be sure that not all "co-operations" are marked as co-operations in the catalogue.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize
a high level of quality
, the
best possible fidelity to the prototype
, and
absolute precision
. You will see that
in all of our products
." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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