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Offline stlcards54  
#1 Posted : 20 February 2015 21:47:44(UTC)
stlcards54

United States   
Joined: 15/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Texas, Spring
I just got my 37015 S2/6 model in. Will post pics soon. But box said made in China. I haven't bought Marklin trains in quite awhile. I thought all manufacturing was Germany or Hungary.
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Offline Webmaster  
#2 Posted : 20 February 2015 21:54:28(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 10,803
Interesting, compared the "official version" of M manufacturing today...
I have no doubts that the wooden box is made in China though...

As an EU citizen, seems like we don't have that strict origin labeling on boxes as you have in the US.
Does it legally require the "made in China" if parts of the contents is made there, according to US trade legislation?
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 20 February 2015 22:43:08(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,420
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
As an EU citizen, seems like we don't have that strict origin labeling on boxes as you have in the US.
We (EU citizens) do not see any "Made in ..." information on Märklin products.
If they write "Made in China" on stuff sold in the US then they probably would have to use the same label for stuff sold in the EU.

US laws require a "Made in ..." - and AFAIK the country with the lion's share must be given.


Originally Posted by: stlcards54 Go to Quoted Post
I thought all manufacturing was Germany or Hungary.
Everything manufactured by Märklin will be made in Germany and/or Hungary.

But Märklin also are resellers for items bought from other companies or made for Märklin by other companies. These items can come from any country.
Märklin never announced that production in China was all over. Only some Märklin fans announce this time after time ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline petestra  
#4 Posted : 20 February 2015 22:47:48(UTC)
petestra

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Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
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Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Very interesting point, Tom.


Peter ThumpUp
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Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 20 February 2015 22:51:00(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,420
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: stlcards54 Go to Quoted Post
Will post pics soon. But box said made in China.
Please include pics of the "Made in China" labels. TIA.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline stlcards54  
#6 Posted : 21 February 2015 00:05:25(UTC)
stlcards54

United States   
Joined: 15/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Texas, Spring
here are the pics with MADE IN CHINA on a sticker on the main box.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
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Offline hgk  
#7 Posted : 21 February 2015 00:13:26(UTC)
hgk


Joined: 10/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 455
Location: Pacific Ocean
A google search of marklin 37015 country of manufacture, returns several sites that mention Germany as country of manufacture but then again none were from Marklin itself.
Likely only the box was made in china..... Well after seeing the photos I'm not so sure.
-gk
Offline analogmike  
#8 Posted : 21 February 2015 03:17:15(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 617
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
There are no words to express the extent of my anger to see "made in gina" on a marklin product. We have touched on this subject before, but the photo of that "made in" sticker just rips my heart out. Especially after how hard someone has to work to earn the amount of money it takes to acquire one of these "finely produced German products". I will still continue to collect and operate my 1960's-1980's m-trains, but as far as the new stuff is concerned; THEY CAN KISS MY LAYOUT.......from underneath! Our loyalty over the years is the very reason they are still in business and this is how they thank us. ANALOGMIKE.
I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
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Offline Shamu  
#9 Posted : 21 February 2015 04:07:43(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Just doubled checked to make sure I wasn't imagining things........

There is NO "Made in China" stickers anywhere on mine.

I have not reopened it to check the documentation etc however I am inclined to think perhaps the box/case and printed material "may" be made there.

If it transpires that a loco costing as much as it does did in fact come from China I would be shall we say "a tad miffed".......... don't get me wrong, a lot of quality merchandise comes from China but not at the price I paid for the 2/6.

The fact that it is a sticker and not printed on the outer box/sleeve seams a bit odd to me.

Depending how the yanks look at things maybe it gets the sticker even if the loco comes from Germany/Hungary but everything else is sourced from China.......

1 x outer box, 1 x inner box/sleeve, 1 x wooden box, 2 x foam pads, 3 x printed material and 1 x clear plastic loco holder = 9 items

verse

1 x loco.

Only the shadow knows.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
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Offline waorb  
#10 Posted : 21 February 2015 04:52:10(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 851
Location: Brazil

Hello!

For me also seems to be strange that sticker (instead of really printed on the box)...

Meanwhile, a search in Ebay.de shows several of this lok to sale, but only a few ones with the box showing the same side of that sticked box... No one have the same sticker...

2 cents...

Cheers,

Walter
Offline stlcards54  
#11 Posted : 21 February 2015 05:03:34(UTC)
stlcards54

United States   
Joined: 15/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Texas, Spring
I'll ask my dealer. He went to Germany to meet with Marklin on the new product line this year. Hoping it's just the box/ printed material. Awesome loco though.
Offline foumaro  
#12 Posted : 21 February 2015 05:11:25(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,340
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
If there is a sticker on the box writing " made in China",the sticker of course is reffering to all the product and not only for the wooden box.
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Offline Shamu  
#13 Posted : 21 February 2015 05:48:14(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
Just wondering if there is a "free trade agreement" between the US and China......... could be a case of pulling a swiftie for import duties Confused LOL

Not sure exactly were I read it in the last week or so but I thought it wasn't approved for sale in the US yet due to EMI regs/certification, must have been on the Marklin site as I recall mention of a "fee" for getting it certified.

Will see if I can find it again....... OH, its on the back page of the user manual, that's were I saw it.
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
Offline NZMarklinist  
#14 Posted : 21 February 2015 06:18:24(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
I to am somewhat miffed to see this ThumbDown

However it has occurred to me that we have never seen any pics of the production of this Lok on Marklin TV or M Magazine as we so often do with highly anticpated new Models Blink

That could well be because the model was not produced in Goppingen or Gyor Angry

I am/was looking forward to receiving my copy of the model this coming week Scared
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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Offline mike187  
#15 Posted : 21 February 2015 08:32:35(UTC)
mike187

United States   
Joined: 19/06/2012(UTC)
Posts: 50
Location: nj
Hi:

Has anyone who purchased this marklin loco looked under the loco to see if their are any serial # tags. On most of the new LGB items I have purchased the serial # tags underneath the items have "MA/HU" signifying manufacture in Hungary. A couple of European/Swiss freight cars I have purchased from LGB have "Made in China" on the box and a sticker underneath the product.
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Offline H0  
#16 Posted : 21 February 2015 08:34:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,420
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
Not sure exactly were I read it in the last week or so but I thought it wasn't approved for sale in the US yet due to EMI regs/certification, must have been on the Marklin site as I recall mention of a "fee" for getting it certified.
Check the last page of the manual. Most new M* locos come without FCC approval nowadays and must not be used in the US without prior certification (at the expense of the customer).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 21 February 2015 08:44:24(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post
For me also seems to be strange that sticker (instead of really printed on the box)...
I wrote it before: the "Made in ..." is only needed for items sold in the US and it is used only for items exported to the US by Märklin (through Walthers).

They could proudly print "Made in Germany" or "Made in EU" or "Made in Hungary" onto the boxes.
But it seems they do not want to give us a clue where items are really coming from - still too much "Made in China", I'm afraid.

I did not expect to see "Made in China" on such a premium model.
But the S 2/6 shows what their statements of "bringing production back to Europe" are really worth. The S 2/6 is a new mould and where does the first batch come from?
If they were serious about bringing everything back to Europe, they should begin with keeping new moulds in Europe.

I do not hesitate to buy locos made in China. But I want a bit transparency where items are made.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#18 Posted : 21 February 2015 08:50:47(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,312
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I think there can be too much unhealthy obsession with the country of origin where Märklin is concerned.

Others, like Brawa for example, make all their products in China, and yet everybody loves what they make.

Are we being a bit snobbish wIth Märklin?

My 37015 is the best Märklin loco in my collection, and I don't give a damn where it was made!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 21 February 2015 09:15:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,420
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Are we being a bit snobbish with Märklin?
Märklin often said they return production from China to Europe because of quality issues.
I'm afraid the M* H0 products from European production have more quality issues than the Chinese stuff.

They tell us that some H0 models are completely made at Göppingen. But they do not tell us which items these are.
High wages in Germany justify higher prices for products made here.

I think these perpetual discussions about Märklin's countries of origin also relate to the quality problems. With excellent quality people care less where it is made. They read their "Animal Farm" books and always tell us "Chinese production bad, European production good".
All Märklin products are equal. But some are more equal than others.


IMHO the perpetual statements on Märklin TV led to some expectations with respect to country of origin. The "Made in China" on the S 2/6 now comes as a big surprise for me - a bit of a shock.
They lost most of my MRR budget with their in-transparency so this new revelation won't have any impact on my buying behaviour.

Piko always say their H0 stuff comes from China (from their own factory).
ESU always say their stuff comes from China.
Liliput writes "Made in China" on every box. Piko and ESU dare not write "Made in China" on their boxes unless legally required and also prefer to let sleeping dogs lie.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline mbarreto  
#20 Posted : 21 February 2015 11:37:03(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 839
Hi all,

Märklin should have a factory here, just like VolksWagen. (and off course have open days too, at least for insiders :) )
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline biedmatt  
#21 Posted : 21 February 2015 11:39:50(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I believe it is made in China. That in itself wouldn't matter to me, the quality of the product seems very high. They did a great job with this loko. Some are upset with the price. Why? You got a great loko for a proper market price. Companies do not move production to China to lower pricing. They do it to maximize profits. This is not a bad attitude. Many must do it to survive. They do not price product based on production cost plus X percentage of profit. They price it based on what we are willing to pay for that product. Some product earn the company little, others, a lot. I did not buy one because it is not my era. It is so nice, I wish it was. As I said in another thread, Chinese production doesn't bother me, it is just wise though to be alert and keep your eyes open. Some products you can't decide until it is too late. I won't buy Chinese dog food.

What really has me upset is the line of crap coming out of Gopingen. There was a comment in another post that this ownership is more honest than the last. This juror is still out on that decision. Be truthful with us. If you "stretch the truth" (I really wanted to use a more direct word there but to be PC, I did not) we will eventually find out. What does that do for your reputation?
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline biedmatt  
#22 Posted : 21 February 2015 12:38:34(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
Marklin is in a very difficult situation. They need Chinese production to be profitable and stay in business. On the other hand, there are many enthusiasts who simply will not buy a product made in China. No easy answer. If there was, we would not be having this discussion. But one thing they simply can not risk is their reputation. If you are not open and forthright, your secrets will be discovered. It is only a matter of time. The internet makes sure everyone interested will know. When you are required to put a "made in..." sticker on the products sold in a market, you better make sure you did not tell your customers something other than what your boxes will clearly state.

Edit: I think M should continue with Chinese production. If it is what they need to be profitable, is there any other choice? But, they need to be sure the product is the quality of the S2/6. They need to stop worrying about the "No China" customers. These people are relics living in a world that neither exists, nor has existed for many, many years. You also need to stand behind your product when you have a manufacturing problem. The Chinese zink pest problem is well documented. These things happen folks, relax. But they must warrant such problems. Indefinitely. We bought the product based on the knowledge that if it is cared for, it will last our lifetime. If you do not make good on these situations, you will never earn the confidence we need as customers in those products you make in China. Expensive? Yes. But if we loose confidence in the product, then how much of a future does this company have? These situations are exactly why they need to make as much on a product as they can. They need the capital to address these problems when they happen. The amount of profit they make is their business. Mine is to decide if the cost of a product is worth it to me.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline stlcards54  
#23 Posted : 21 February 2015 15:33:26(UTC)
stlcards54

United States   
Joined: 15/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Texas, Spring
I tried this loco out last nite. It is an awesome model. Like others I would just like some transparency on country of origin. I would have bought this beauty no matter what. One last request, This model needs a station announcement :)
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Offline stlcards54  
#24 Posted : 21 February 2015 19:59:21(UTC)
stlcards54

United States   
Joined: 15/01/2015(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Texas, Spring
It is from China, see note from my dealer below.

Yes, it is. I actually brought that up to the owner when I sat down with him
in Germany. The answer was along the lines that the 37015 was too far in
development to pull the production to Germany.

The model has the same level of detail as the Brawa models.
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Offline mike c  
#25 Posted : 21 February 2015 20:55:06(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,224
Location: Montreal, QC
EU regulations require that the country of final assembly be noted or in case that occurs within the EU, simply "Made in the EU". What exactly constitutes final assembly is not clear, whether it is the screws being put in to attach the shell to the chassis or simply the item being packaged.
US law is different. According to NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement), good shipped to or manufactured in the NAFTA zone must indicate the location where the lion's share of production (Country of Origin or CoO) occurred. For this reason, additional stickers are often applied to Maerklin trains and accessories that are shipped to the official distributor and through official channels. I do not know how this works for items that are shipped from the factory to dealers directly. The majority of my models that have come through the US distribution have been labelled with mostly "Made in Hungary" or "Made In China" labels.
It is important to remember that for a new locomotive production, the model might consist of a new livery of an older model and the model might simply painted and assembled in Hungary from parts that were made in China and then labelled as "Made in China" because the parts make up more of the production that the assembly and labour.

I must admit that it can be complicated when you are importing a model from Europe and it is not clear what the actual CoO is. In most cases, I have the information, but sometimes it can cause problems with processing of paperwork.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline foumaro  
#26 Posted : 22 February 2015 08:27:37(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,340
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
I have no problem with Chinese products,I want if it is possible to know that is Chinese or Greek or German or English or anything else before I buy it.Just this.
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Offline H0  
#27 Posted : 22 February 2015 08:46:13(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,420
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
EU regulations require that the country of final assembly be noted or in case that occurs within the EU, simply "Made in the EU".
No, no, no, no, no. EU regulation require the country with the lion's share to be given as the country of origin.
German regulations are stricter with respect to "Made in Germany".

But EU regulations do not require any country of origin declaration on items. No "Made in ..." on Märklin boxes sold in the EU.
Märklin sell all boxes with the address of the Göppingen headquarter on the box - also the Chinese stuff. For the official US distributors they add "Made in ..." stickers.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline H0  
#28 Posted : 22 February 2015 08:52:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,420
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
There was a comment in another post that this ownership is more honest than the last.
The person who wrote that also wrote that production in China was all over. These statements came from a very enthusiastic Märklin fan without inside information.
He also wrote Märklin are reading here. LOL
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline jonquinn  
#29 Posted : 22 February 2015 17:25:06(UTC)
jonquinn


Joined: 15/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,589
Location: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by: stlcards54 Go to Quoted Post
It is from China, see note from my dealer below.

Yes, it is. I actually brought that up to the owner when I sat down with him
in Germany. The answer was along the lines that the 37015 was too far in
development to pull the production to Germany.

The model has the same level of detail as the Brawa models.


That's what I was thinking. I wouldn't doubt it was made from the same tooling, or at least the same CNC g code for making the tooling, that was used for the Brawa offering.
I have had the Brawa model since it came out and it is a very nive and smooth running locomotive. Since my MRR funds are a lot more limited than they used to be, I will have to "settle" for just that model, and no marklin version.
Offline waorb  
#30 Posted : 23 February 2015 03:36:01(UTC)
waorb

Brazil   
Joined: 31/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 851
Location: Brazil

Blushing
After bite my tongue, this past week I found a Model Train dealer in Brazil with a product that was interesting for me... And the price was very reasonable (almost the same if I buy it in Germany)...

I request it, and yesterday arrived... one Märklin Z Wheel Cleaner (#66623).

My surprise after opened the box... "The Sticker" !!!
(photos attached)

Well... I also don't have problems with products 'made in china' _if_ the company have a good reputation... for instance, Apple is as another example...

But, for me, this doesn't mean that the product is or not really made in China... even if the BarCode means that the product seems to be produced in Germany...

If you put the numbers from the bar code (4028106666230) in this site below, you get the information of the producer:
http://gepir.gs1.org/v32/xx/gtin.aspx?Lang=en-US

Cheers,

Walter

waorb attached the following image(s):
IMG_0279.JPG
IMG_0277.JPG
IMG_0278.JPG
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Offline H0  
#31 Posted : 23 February 2015 08:05:42(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,420
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: waorb Go to Quoted Post
But, for me, this doesn't mean that the product is or not really made in China... even if the BarCode means that the product seems to be produced in Germany...
I don't think so.
The address given on the box is the German head-quarter. The address returned for the bar code is the German head-quarter. I get the same information for C track (and I assume it is made in Hungary).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Falconrep  
#32 Posted : 25 February 2015 03:57:06(UTC)
Falconrep

United States   
Joined: 07/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 111
Location: Kansas OK
I started this a few years ago and was almost tossed from the community.
Just kidding here, but this was and appears to still be a hotly contested subject.
I think that Marklin WAS having the Chinese make a lot of their production, read as cheap labor cheap materials and no discount passed along to the consumer. You can find some info on this surrounding the last bankruptcy issues.
I caught this the way a few of the US consumers did, boxes marked made in China.
It appears the US informs consumers on where things are made....but not always, there are some US loopholes like if you make ALL your parts overseas, ship them to the US Virgin Islands for assembly you can call them made in the USA.......AND you avoid all that nasty import taxes, Timex did that back in the late 70's when I lived there.
A little on line research seems to lead me to believe that Marklin HAD to move its production out of China and has recently (this year) opened a new facility in Hungary. Again for cheap labor, not sure about materials, but as you can see the prices don't reflect this.
I stopped buying Marklin once this complication entered the scene, I had a ton of stuff so I didn't NEED any more and this was as good an excuse as any to give up the habit.
I recently retired and am actually working on a small layout, it will never be the caliber of some of the great ones I've seen here on the board, but it will suit my needs.
By the way, here is an article From Marklin that tells about the new facility.

http://ajckids.com/blog/...duction-hall-in-hungary/

Its in English, translated from German so those of you that read German probably can locate it on the Marklin site.
SO I guess there will be some stock in the US with the Made in China atickers and then eventually they will start to say Made in Hungary.
Either way I'm sort of glad its back in Europe, I might actually visit Hungary.

Take Care all.
P.S. Once the layout gets a little populated I'll send some pics.
Going to a train show this weekend in Arkansas, not a lot of hope for Marklin but its still fun to look right?
Thomas Wondrock
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Offline H0  
#33 Posted : 25 February 2015 08:27:04(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,420
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Falconrep Go to Quoted Post
A little on line research seems to lead me to believe that Marklin HAD to move its production out of China and has recently (this year) opened a new facility in Hungary.
Sanda Kan terminated their contracts with Märklin in 2010 - rumours say Märklin didn't pay their bills in time.
Märklin had other Chinese partners beside Sanda Kan and found new production capacities in China.
Last year they opened a new production hall in Hungary with 50 new jobs.
For comparison: between 2001 and 2010 Märklin reduced the German workforce from 2423 down to 939. I am not convinced that 50 new jobs are enough to bring the complete production to Europe. I am convinced that Märklin would need a few hundred new workers in Europe to bring the complete production from China to Europe.
I've said that before and naïve Märklin fans called me "Märklin hater".
I did not expect that they would still make premium H0 models in China, so I'm surprised, well, shocked, by the revelation about the bay S 2/6. There were rumours about premium I gauge steamers made in China.

Since we get little official information from Märklin, there is much room for speculation.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Mark_1602  
#34 Posted : 26 February 2015 07:51:27(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 630
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I think there can be too much unhealthy obsession with the country of origin where Märklin is concerned.

Others, like Brawa for example, make all their products in China, and yet everybody loves what they make.

Are we being a bit snobbish wIth Märklin?

My 37015 is the best Märklin loco in my collection, and I don't give a damn where it was made!


Hi Ray,

You're right there. The decision of whether we buy a certain product or not should not be based on such criteria. I also considered buying the 37015 although I don't collect era I, as it's a really nice-looking and well-designed model. About two months ago, I found out from a reliable source that the new NSB Nohab I have bought (and like a lot!) is made in China as well. It's a very good model, no matter where it was made, and I've tested it several times and had a very close look at it.

Nevertheless, it's intriguing to find out where Märklin products are made. Could you tell me the product code on the grey box of the 37015? I have a theory about Märklin product codes, and I'd like to see if it's true.

Enjoy your cool S 2/6! Cool

Best regards,
Marc
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
Offline RayF  
#35 Posted : 26 February 2015 09:50:37(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,312
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I think there can be too much unhealthy obsession with the country of origin where Märklin is concerned.

Others, like Brawa for example, make all their products in China, and yet everybody loves what they make.

Are we being a bit snobbish wIth Märklin?

My 37015 is the best Märklin loco in my collection, and I don't give a damn where it was made!


Hi Ray,

You're right there. The decision of whether we buy a certain product or not should not be based on such criteria. I also considered buying the 37015 although I don't collect era I, as it's a really nice-looking and well-designed model. About two months ago, I found out from a reliable source that the new NSB Nohab I have bought (and like a lot!) is made in China as well. It's a very good model, no matter where it was made, and I've tested it several times and had a very close look at it.

Nevertheless, it's intriguing to find out where Märklin products are made. Could you tell me the product code on the grey box of the 37015? I have a theory about Märklin product codes, and I'd like to see if it's true.

Enjoy your cool S 2/6! Cool

Best regards,
Marc


Hi Marc,

The product code is the one on one of the flaps right?

It's:

247 863 1014 Kb

The 1014 I assume is the date of manufacture. The only other number on the grey box is the one on the bar-code.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline biedmatt  
#36 Posted : 26 February 2015 12:10:21(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
I look forward to the day when these discussion topics are about the quality of the model and not where they made it.
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#37 Posted : 26 February 2015 12:56:29(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


I do not hesitate to buy locos made in China. But I want a bit transparency where items are made.


My comments in my above post, were because I too expected more transparency from Marklin about where the item was actually manufactured. I seem to remember Herr Sieber mentioning that new tooling and processes at Goppingen had assisted with the fast production of the 37015, or at least that was what I assumed, or feel I was led to believe. I could have been peruaded to purchase the Brawa one made in China but as the M one came along I was only too keen to have it, as since seeing the prototype at Nuremberg, I was keen to have a model.

My S 2/6 was finally delivered into my hands today.

I have unpacked it from the well packaged Carton from Lokshop along with Rheingold Set 41929. Cool

As I have had a lot of late nights this week I have left the Lok until tomorrow to have a look at Blushing
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Mark_1602  
#38 Posted : 27 February 2015 07:54:12(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 630
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post


Hi Marc,

The product code is the one on one of the flaps right?

It's:

247 863 1014 Kb

The 1014 I assume is the date of manufacture. The only other number on the grey box is the one on the bar-code.


Hi Ray,

Thanks for the product code. I asked for this because on the boxes of my new Nohab as well as on some other locomotives and car sets, I had noticed strange product codes, such as 183017/0914/Ha1MH (39671), 189724/1212/Hi1CLT (36339 and 36334). Märklin has used various abbreviations in product codes in the last decades, but there's never been anything as exotic as this. The last part of the product code traditionally stands for the name of the printing shop that has produced the box, so I think that unusual codes like Hi1CLT suggest that the box and the locomotive (or car set) are probably made in China, but they are not conclusive evidence. For most current Märklin boxes, the code for the printing shop is 'nd' or 'ND'. Interestingly, those Märklin products which are known to have been made in China before 2011, such as the plastic US box cars, have incomplete product codes: the reference to the printing shop at the end of the code is missing!
The 37015 comes in a wooden box that might be made in Europe, but obviously that doesn't say anything about where the locomotive was made. The real evidence is the sticker which American buyers see on the grey cardboard box.

Anyway, I find product codes interesting as I collect vintage models, and I agree with you that it would be snobbish not to buy a new Nohab or S 2/6 on the grounds that they are probably made in China. There are other MRR manufacturers that have their products made in China and still sell them at high prices. I have nearly all the old Märklin Nohabs produced up to 2013, and I think that the new model is a worthy successor! I'll buy more versions as they become available.

Best regards,
Marc
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
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Offline RayF  
#39 Posted : 27 February 2015 08:56:10(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,312
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks Marc.

I should hopefully be getting my 39672 SNCB Nohab soon as I saw that they are available again. No word from Lokshop yet.

The old Nohab, and I have a DSB one, was a lovely model, but it's showing its 1960s vintage. I look forward to comparing the two models.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Goofy  
#40 Posted : 27 February 2015 10:37:05(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,908
If you get another products from Märklin,but boxes says made in China,please verified it with pics!
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline xxup  
#41 Posted : 27 February 2015 10:46:59(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 8,888
Location: Australia
A recent Hepatitis A event with frozen berries from China, will result in some big changes to packaging.. On of the proposals is to list the Country of origin for the components of the goods with a pie chart showing the percentage from the country of origin..

Australian farmers have never been happier.. ThumpUp
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
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H0
Offline PJMärklin  
#42 Posted : 27 February 2015 11:06:48(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,332
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
A recent Hepatitis A event with frozen berries from China, will result in some big changes to packaging.. On of the proposals is to list the Country of origin for the components of the goods with a pie chart showing the percentage from the country of origin..

Australian farmers have never been happier.. ThumpUp



Hi Adrian,

Food packaging display of country of origin, country of company ownership and country of packaging is long overdue in Australia.
One gets the impression there is some money-backed lobbying interfering behind the political scene here.
As a tourist in one area of North America was told "we have the best politicians that money can buy, except they don't stay bought" !!

Regards,

PJ
Offline RayF  
#43 Posted : 27 February 2015 14:39:26(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,312
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
A Pie chart with frozen berries! Sounds delicious! BigGrin
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#44 Posted : 27 February 2015 14:58:10(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
A Pie chart with frozen berries! Sounds delicious! BigGrin


Except people got hepatitis from them Yuk !!!!

Bloody Dodgy Ausie food factories ThumbDown

Anyway, back to trains !!

I opened my Marklin S2/6 package today, nothing about China anywhere, but I like what I see of the model ThumpUp

Test run tomorrow hopefully Smile

Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline RayF  
#45 Posted : 27 February 2015 15:06:03(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,312
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
It's such a beauty isn't it?

I'm in love with mine!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline PJMärklin  
#46 Posted : 28 February 2015 02:59:04(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,332
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post


Bloody Dodgy Ausie food factories ThumbDown






Except the food factory was in China and Peru !! LOL LOL LOL
Offline Mark_1602  
#47 Posted : 04 March 2015 09:58:23(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 630
Location: Luxembourg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


They tell us that some H0 models are completely made at Göppingen. But they do not tell us which items these are.
High wages in Germany justify higher prices for products made here.

I think these perpetual discussions about Märklin's countries of origin also relate to the quality problems. With excellent quality people care less where it is made. They read their "Animal Farm" books and always tell us "Chinese production bad, European production good".
All Märklin products are equal. But some are more equal than others.


IMHO the perpetual statements on Märklin TV led to some expectations with respect to country of origin. The "Made in China" on the S 2/6 now comes as a big surprise for me - a bit of a shock.
They lost most of my MRR budget with their in-transparency so this new revelation won't have any impact on my buying behaviour.



Hi Tom,

Do you really believe that some models are entirely made in Germany right now? A few years ago, Märklin TV had a lot of reports about the production at Göppingen, but now they only show us the production of metal parts or maybe the pilot series for a few models. If the recommended price of the new Big Boy (37996) is now 50 euros less than what it was two or three years ago (37994, 37995), I doubt whether it's still assembled in Germany. There is a video made by a TV station that shows the assembly of the 37993 in Göppingen in 2009, so it used to be German-made.
Being German, you should know that most customers are not prepared to pay the high price that a locomotive made in Germany would cost.

Your reference to 'Animal Farm' does not make any sense. There's absolutely no connection whatsoever between Orwell and Märklin. Who reads 'Animal Farm' according to you? The pronoun 'they' does not refer to anybody. Most Märklin fans or managers would probably not read authors like Orwell. Märklin is conservative and has never said that all of their locomotives are equally good. Look at old catalogues from the 1950s or 1960s. Some cheap models are said to be very good value for money and 'original'. That's all. The expensive locomotives were clearly presented as being of superior quality. Equality has never existed in Märklin catalogues ...

If you read a few books about Märklin, you would find out that historically, they have never made any money with transparency. But I suppose you don't want to read the books that I might recommend to you because they've all been written by happy Märklin fans, and it isn't hard to guess what your opinion of such people is ... BigGrin

Edit: Here's the link to the video I have mentioned above:
DW report about Märklin from 2009
MÄRKLIN 4ever!! (*)
(*) This signature refers to those M* items which are truly good quality.
Offline Alsterstreek  
#48 Posted : 04 March 2015 10:46:40(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Portugal   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 4,412
Location: westernmost
Did Marc and Tom swap characters? Who is now the good cop and who is the bad cop? I am confused...

;o)
Greetz - Ak
UserPostedImage
My current layout(s): https://www.marklin-user...d-and-Hi-Land#post462389
Offline RayF  
#49 Posted : 04 March 2015 11:11:39(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,312
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
With sincere apologies to the great Martin Luther King,

"I have a dream that one day the industry of a country will be judged not by the colour of it's flag, but by the quality of its products."

We all agree that there is no place in today's world for Racism, Xenophobia and Jingoism, and yet we keep hearing the same comments as soon as the word "China" is written on a box. We can rise above those feelings, surely?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#50 Posted : 04 March 2015 11:15:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,420
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: M-Classics Go to Quoted Post
Do you really believe that some models are entirely made in Germany right now?
Do not forget that the 400 Göppingen workers that remained after the insolvency 2009 have job guarantees until 2019.

Entirely made in Germany? Probably not. Rumours say the decoders are assembled in Germany, but the parts for the decoders come from all over the world. And current motors probably come from different countries, too.

I visited the factory in 2012. They were making metal loco bodies, they were painting them, they were assembling and testing complete locos and put them into boxes.
Due to the job guarantees I have no reason to believe things are different now.
I believe some Märklin locos are 90+ % "Made in Germany". Do American forum members sometimes see "Made in Germany" stickers on their locos?

Maybe I am wrong and the loco frames I saw had been assembled in Hungary.

But when Märklin folks say that some locos are made completely in Göppingen I take "completely" to mean "90+ %" and I believe that.
Not long ago you said the Märklin managers were no liars. Did you change your mind?

I still think they need a few hundred new European workers to pull out of China completely.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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