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Offline Nick A  
#1 Posted : 25 February 2020 00:05:39(UTC)
Nick A

United States   
Joined: 27/01/2020(UTC)
Posts: 1
Location: North Carolina, Alexander

With Marklin Ho scale, what is the max incline?

Thanks,

Nick
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 25 February 2020 00:42:55(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Perhaps 5% depending on the loco and its load, and the curvature of the track.
It also depends on how realistic you want it to look. Anything over 2% starts to look toy-like.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Offline Drjoe11  
#3 Posted : 25 February 2020 13:57:26(UTC)
Drjoe11

United States   
Joined: 01/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 50
Location: Florida, Leesburg
I use a 4% incline and it looks fine. I used Scenic Express 4% incline kits. It is a an 8 foot run up and down.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#4 Posted : 26 February 2020 08:53:39(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
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Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
Anything over 2% starts to look toy-like.
There are several main and branch line examples in- and outside Germany, old and new, with an incline of more than 2%. I guess they look toy-like.
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Offline DaleSchultz  
#5 Posted : 26 February 2020 19:04:54(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
Originally Posted by: Alsterstreek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
Anything over 2% starts to look toy-like.
There are several main and branch line examples in- and outside Germany, old and new, with an incline of more than 2%. I guess they look toy-like.


as I said "starts"

and yes, they do exist and they are all special cases, either designed for modern system with multiple traction wheels, light rail, or they require pusher locomotives, etc.

Just because something exists (rarely) in the prototype does not mean its looks realistic on a model layout. If one is striving for realism, including something that is extremely rarely seen in real life, detracts from the realism being sought.

When S-Bahn trains dive underground on the outskirts of a big city, they do look toy-like. Running a good trains across such a grade would look awful.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Minok  
#6 Posted : 27 February 2020 01:46:01(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
That simple question and it has the usual answer of "it depends".
As others have pointed out, there are the optics that may come into play, but then the curves we can use are also unrealistic so its all a mater of taste.

From the practical perspective it still depends;
Which locomotive (power and # of traction tires), pulling what sort of weight, and how those cars behave (going up or down, do the buffers get entangled, couplers stay cleanly engaged).


So a single locomotive can do extreme inclines, put 3 passenger coaches after it and it cannot do as much, put a full 8-11 car train after it it does less, pull 30 or cars and its probably even less.
Run it up a straight with slow ease into the include (and out) and its one thing, in an R1 helix, its another thing.

Its on my "to do" list to test out the trains I'll be running by adjusting the elevation of the threaded rod helix I'm putting together to test the limits and know where I stand.

Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline hxmiesa  
#7 Posted : 27 February 2020 08:47:50(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Nick A Go to Quoted Post
With Marklin Ho scale, what is the max incline?

Most Märklin trains are very "strong". Especially older designs from the 80´es.
You should be safe with 5%.
Some smaller locos (like Glaskasten or Köf) does not handle inclines well. (Check to see if your locos has traction-tires)
Think in advance if you are likely to ever use locos from other brands. They might not be well suited for a 5% incline.
2,5% will probably do for almost all types of rolling stock.

Lastly, its not only the incline itself that can poses a problem, but the TRANSITION from level to incline; It is important that the transition happen gradually, or your loco will loose traction and/or waggons will uncouple.

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Online PJMärklin  
#8 Posted : 27 February 2020 11:32:52(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,210
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Nick A Go to Quoted Post
With Marklin Ho scale, what is the max incline?

... its not only the incline itself that can poses a problem, but the TRANSITION from level to incline; It is important that the transition happen gradually, or your loco will loose traction and/or waggons will uncouple.


ThumpUp

Offline Alsterstreek  
#9 Posted : 27 February 2020 12:54:20(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,669
Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
...either designed for modern system with multiple traction wheels, light rail, or they require pusher locomotives, etc…
To name single track line examples outside of Bavaria, from a MRR point of view a class 85 steamer (or a class E[2]44 electric) on the Hoellentalbahn (max. 5.7%), a class 218 diesel on the Murgtalbahn (max. 5.0%), a class 218 diesel (or a class 171 or 185 electric) on the Ruebelandbahn (max. 6.0%), and a class 213/215/218 diesel on the Hunsrueckbahn (max. 6.1%) would be just a single loco hauling a train, respectively. Regarding double track, ignoring new steep ICE lines, „regular“ trains make it over the Erkrath–Hochdahl ramp (max. 3.3%) between Duesseldorf and Wuppertal without helper service since the 1960s electrification.

Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
Just because something exists (rarely) in the prototype does not mean its looks realistic on a model layout.
And just because something exists (frequently) in the prototype does not mean its looks realistic on a model layout.

Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
If one is striving for realism, including something that is extremely rarely seen in real life, detracts from the realism being sought.
Come again?

Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
When S-Bahn trains dive underground on the outskirts of a big city, they do look toy-like. Running a good trains across such a grade would look awful.
Now aesthetics and realism are becoming mixed up.

Edited by user 27 February 2020 18:52:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Drjoe11  
#10 Posted : 27 February 2020 19:05:47(UTC)
Drjoe11

United States   
Joined: 01/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 50
Location: Florida, Leesburg
All I did was answer a question. I did not expect folks to talk about realism or aesthetics. I just like to run my Marklin trains while building this new layout. I like scenery and old German and Bavarian buildings (some modern also). So I guess my layout is a mixture of old and new. I really do not care. All I care about is how it looks to me and that I can have building it and running my trains.
My layout is 12 feet by 8 feet in an "L" configuration. Right now I am trying to automate it using signals as on my old layout that the late Tom Catheral designed for my. My 2 cents.
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Offline RayF  
#11 Posted : 27 February 2020 19:53:27(UTC)
RayF

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Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Asking or even answering questions on this forum is a bit like opening Pandora's box. You never know in what direction the answers and comments will go! BigGrin

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Minok  
#12 Posted : 27 February 2020 22:11:32(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,311
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: Drjoe11 Go to Quoted Post
All I did was answer a question. I did not expect folks to talk about realism or aesthetics. I just like to run my Marklin trains while building this new layout. I like scenery and old German and Bavarian buildings (some modern also). So I guess my layout is a mixture of old and new. I really do not care. All I care about is how it looks to me and that I can have building it and running my trains.
My layout is 12 feet by 8 feet in an "L" configuration. Right now I am trying to automate it using signals as on my old layout that the late Tom Catheral designed for my. My 2 cents.


And what you like is the only thing that matters. (I assume you meant ...was ask a question...) So focusing on the mechanical physics of what can a particular locomotive do, pulling several cars - with Märklin it can probably go up a steeper incline than you would expect; but you want to test with your weakest (least traction and lightest weight, going around include R1 curves ) pulling your longest for it train, to find your limits. If the traction tires (rubber) are old, replace them first with new ones as old rubber gets brittle and less grippy often.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#13 Posted : 28 February 2020 00:21:05(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,669
Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Drjoe11 Go to Quoted Post
All I did was answer a question. I did not expect folks to talk about realism or aesthetics...
And what you like is the only thing that matters. (I assume you meant ...was ask a question...) ...

I believe there is some confusion, as Nick A started the thread by asking a question, while Drjoe11 was the second to reply (with DaleSchultz being the first responder).
Offline michelvr  
#14 Posted : 28 February 2020 00:48:15(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Asking or even answering questions on this forum is a bit like opening Pandora's box. You never know in what direction the answers and comments will go! BigGrin



I'm inclined to agree!BigGrin

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Offline hxmiesa  
#15 Posted : 28 February 2020 09:25:21(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Asking or even answering questions on this forum is a bit like opening Pandora's box. You never know in what direction the answers and comments will go! BigGrin

I'm inclined to agree!BigGrin

Yes, its an uphill battle...
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Online PJMärklin  
#16 Posted : 28 February 2020 09:55:19(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,210
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Asking or even answering questions on this forum is a bit like opening Pandora's box. You never know in what direction the answers and comments will go! BigGrin

I'm inclined to agree!BigGrin

Yes, its an uphill battle...


I was waiting for someone to speak up, but then someone else might take a different angle on it - now that would ramp up discussion, particularly if another was to rise to it.OhMyGod
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Offline river6109  
#17 Posted : 28 February 2020 10:34:14(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,715
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
if you have a tunnel vision the incline doesn't come into the quotation and your problem is solved without doing anything.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Online kiwiAlan  
#18 Posted : 29 February 2020 09:04:50(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,103
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Asking or even answering questions on this forum is a bit like opening Pandora's box. You never know in what direction the answers and comments will go! BigGrin



ThumpUp LOL Scared ThumpUp
Offline GaryTrooper  
#19 Posted : 29 February 2020 23:59:22(UTC)
GaryTrooper

United States   
Joined: 26/01/2018(UTC)
Posts: 392
Location: Hailey, Idaho
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Asking or even answering questions on this forum is a bit like opening Pandora's box. You never know in what direction the answers and comments will go! BigGrin

I'm inclined to agree!BigGrin

Yes, its an uphill battle...


I was waiting for someone to speak up, but then someone else might take a different angle on it - now that would ramp up discussion, particularly if another was to rise to it.OhMyGod


Boy this technical ramp discussion just went into decline.Flapper
G - LGB
O - Lionel and MTH
HO - Marklin
N - Mix of manufacturers mostly Kato
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Offline PeFu  
#20 Posted : 01 March 2020 05:22:47(UTC)
PeFu

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Posts: 1,209
Really? IMHO, this is a progressive discussion. Cool
Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold V10
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Online kiwiAlan  
#21 Posted : 01 March 2020 09:22:39(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,103
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: GaryTrooper Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Asking or even answering questions on this forum is a bit like opening Pandora's box. You never know in what direction the answers and comments will go! BigGrin

I'm inclined to agree!BigGrin

Yes, its an uphill battle...


I was waiting for someone to speak up, but then someone else might take a different angle on it - now that would ramp up discussion, particularly if another was to rise to it.OhMyGod


Boy this technical ramp discussion just went into decline.Flapper


I'm inclined to agree with that statement ... Crying Crying Crying
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