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tom becker		#1 Posted : 24 January 2008 07:22:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 38 Location: ,		I am currently working on a new layout, and have contemplated adding catenary. The problem is that this makes operating very fiddly, especially at my old age, when I can barely get a steamer on the track. I have heard that some hobbyists add only the catenary masts without the actual wiring. I wonder if anyone has done this and how satisfied you are with the appearance of this. With the CS system the overhead catenary obviously serves only as a visual element since locos do not operate from the cantenary. Your comments are welcomed.
		Tom, a loyal fan from Vancouver
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ozzman		#2 Posted : 24 January 2008 07:50:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,828 Location: Sydney, Australia		Tom, the December Model Railroader had an article on a large Swiss-themed Z Scale layout in Washington DC. In the article it was stated that the layout only included the catenary masts and not the wiring, so there you've got a precedent. But then of course with the smallness of Z you mightn't notice the lack of wiring so much.
		Gary Z Scale "Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout"
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jlopez		#3 Posted : 24 January 2008 07:52:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2004(UTC) Posts: 143 Location: San Francisco		I have added catenary, I love the visual look. But I am ver leary of running the more delicate pantographs on it, For instance any Swiss locos, the French flat irons, or my Insider 103 with the movable pantographs. I find that the older more robust pantographs work really well as they are wider. In the end I love watching the movement as it the pantograph goe up and down, but they can be a hassel especialy if they don't follow the center of the rail, and catch a pantograph and bend it backwards.
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rschaffr		#4 Posted : 24 January 2008 14:40:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		I run all my e-loks with the catenary. I occasionally snag a pantograph (I am getting good at repairing them, plus I have a stock of spares). It does make adding and removing loks and rolling stock a challenge, though. I run all my e-loks power through the catenary and use Viessmann, so I have to regularly inspect the system for y-seil disconnections. One of those will snag a lok like a hungry trout.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Armando		#5 Posted : 24 January 2008 15:13:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		I think it's nice to have the catenary thread though, especially nowadays that Viessmann and Sommerfeld are manufacturing very thin wires. The solution to install just the masts can be complemented by soldering the pantograph half way up in order to keep them raised. I would miss not seeing the pantograph move up and down slightly as the locomotive runs. In order to enable the trains onto the track, one could leave a section of the station yard (a siding) without catenary (no masts).
		Best regards, Armando García
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viragoLDR		#6 Posted : 24 January 2008 15:58:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2005(UTC) Posts: 703 Location: ,		Putting up only catenary masts is very common in Japanese prototype N-scale. Part of that is because everything by Japanese manufacturers is designed to be easy to set up and take down again (no space for permanent layouts etc.) Many people won't even really notice the missing wire unless they are either specifically looking for it, or they're told there is no wire. Prototypical wire in N-scale would be very thin, and nearly invisible. In H0, the wire will be somewhat thicker, and you'll probably notice the missing wire. I would say buy a couple of masts and test it on a small part of the layout. It's really a personal preference whether you want the wire or not. Me personally, I'd add the wire, but leave some parts of the layout non-electrified. It makes putting a loco on the track easier, and it'll allow for some more interesting operation seeing that electric loco's shouldn't be able to get to non-electrified tracks.
		- Martijn (early planning : H0-scale Era I K.Bay.sts.b) (active planning : N-scale mixed late Era Japanese) (possibly something Z-scale as well ;))
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TTRExpress		#7 Posted : 24 January 2008 17:03:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC) Posts: 655		Tom, One can put up catenary masts without overhead wire but in HO scale it would look rather odd. Since you do not want to operate your E-loks from the overhead wire but do want to keep a "prototypical" look to your layout you could simple use a thin nylon fishing line and string it over the "ausleger" or brackets. If you have tunnels you do not need to worry about installation of poles etc. Let us know what you decide to do. Regards (a Scottish Highlander in Wisconsin)
		Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin), Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
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DaleSchultz		#8 Posted : 24 January 2008 17:40:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997		I am going to just put up the poles and not the wires on my HO layout. The reduced accessibility is not going to be worth it IMHO. Also, if you look at photographs of the prototype, you cannot see the wires in many/most images. Even the thin profi wires from Sommerfeld are very visible in HO. I did start erecting catenary with wires: http://layout.mixmox.com/1/Sommerfeld-catenary Even when erected with extreme care, the slightest bump, bends the wires and it is very difficult to get the kinks out. Personally, when I see HO layouts with catenary it looks way to heavy and cluttered.
		Dale Intellibox + own software, K-Track My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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rschaffr		#9 Posted : 24 January 2008 18:00:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Dale: I agree that the wires are heavy per scale, but the Viessmann ones (not the heavier ones they make for Marklin) are not too bad. Here is a larger copy of my avatar, which is one of my favorite pictures. you can see the catenary but I don't think it is overwhelming. [image]http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/era_iv/hbf/103.jpg[/image] I believe that Viessmann had announced an even thinner "profi" line, but I don't know if it has ever been produced. I haven't followed it because I'm not about to replace all of mine. Here are a few more pix: [image]http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/era_iv/hbf/bonnsth.jpg[/image] and [image]http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/era_iv/hbf/bonnovw.jpg[/image] Personally I think it would look strange without the wires.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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DaleSchultz		#10 Posted : 24 January 2008 18:17:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997		I understand, and yes in your first image they look great. I find them too heavy in the second picture (and the wires seem to be missing in the forground) and OK in the third. I think they are easier to hide in night scenes (I painted mine a dark color). Have you got comparison day scene images ? Great picture and nice station !
		Dale Intellibox + own software, K-Track My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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rschaffr		#11 Posted : 24 January 2008 18:30:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Dale: Oh, no question that the wire thickness is probably 2 to 3 times scale. It is really evident in this picture, but it is in the foreground of the shot: [image]http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/era_iv/hbf/bonnnth.jpg[/image] The catenary is over-emphasized here, also: [image]http://www.sem-co.com/%7Erschaffr/trains/era_iv/westriver/wriv19.jpg[/image] and here is a more brightly lit one of the "South" end of my station (shot two above) [image]http://www.sem-co.com/%7Erschaffr/trains/era_iv/westriver/caty1.jpg[/image] Would be nice if the wires were a bit thinner.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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TTRExpress		#12 Posted : 24 January 2008 19:13:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC) Posts: 655		Tom, You could use Sommerfeldt's Wood Type Masts Part no. 280. These use a simplified single overhead wire Part No. 090 or 091. You would need to solder the wire to the bracket. Regards (a Scottish Highlander in Wisconsin)
		Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin), Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
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rschaffr		#13 Posted : 24 January 2008 19:26:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Tom: I looked a Sommerfeldt but went with Viessmann. When I do my "Swiss" expansion, I am switching over to Sommerfeldt since they have Swiss type masts. Also, although the installation of Sommerfeldt is more difficult due to all the soldering, it appears more rugged in operation. It certainly doesn't have the probelm of snagging pantographs with the Y-links coming loose.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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rschaffr		#14 Posted : 24 January 2008 21:41:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Heh. I just went on Viessmann's website and the entire "Profi Oberleitung" category is now empty. I guess this is a continuation of their propensity for announcing great products and never delivering (such as the universal slow acting switch motor I have had on order for two years now). I wonder when that will quietly just disappear from the catalog.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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kbvrod		#15 Posted : 25 January 2008 03:39:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,597 Location: Beverly, MA		Hi Tom,all, Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by tom becker <br />I am currently working on a new layout, and have contemplated adding catenary. The problem is that this makes operating very fiddly, especially at my old age, when I can barely get a steamer on the track. I have heard that some hobbyists add only the catenary masts without the actual wiring. I wonder if anyone has done this and how satisfied you are with the appearance of this. With the CS system the overhead catenary obviously serves only as a visual element since locos do not operate from the cantenary. Your comments are welcomed. You do whatever you like.I know that sounds smart-@$$ but it's true,it's your layout and if does not bother you to just install masts and have the pantos half way up,then you go lad!!! Catenary,is very hard to do,you have to take you time,check and re-check,solder,un-solder,re-solder,tension it,it <u>must</u> have tension,like say,...the real thing. One can give a go with the old Marklin overhead,say what you will,but if you intalled it right it will work. Let us know-it-alls,how it goes,... Dr Dirt
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tom becker		#16 Posted : 25 January 2008 08:07:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 38 Location: ,		Thanks for all of the useful advise including the layout pictures. These illustrations are very worthwhile. I think as suggested I will include some test sections and see how satisfying it is. Thanks to all for the great help!!
		Tom, a loyal fan from Vancouver
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Larry		#17 Posted : 25 January 2008 08:15:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,443 Location: Northeast Ohio		Is the old Maerklin catenary, which I have a lot of, easier to work with than the new? I've contemplated going with the new but from reading the above posts I'd like to try whatever is easier. For me, it would be a nightmare to have a catenary mishaps and have to replace a pantograph since I don't have the time or the experience. Tom - I'm glad you brought up running with just the posts since I think that, for me, is a great intermediate solution while I decide what to do.
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metpo		#18 Posted : 25 January 2008 10:07:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/02/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: ,		hmm.. really interesting topic... I have been also thinking about it.. lots of guys playing with trains even do not want a catenary: because it is too difficult and they are using steamers or diesels... I want some swiss catenary..... at least I will try to put minimum the masts..but the catenary itself: I think that is too complicated for someone with not enough experience in soldering... plus it can become irritating and it makes the layout more expensive.. I also wanna know how you can do it concerning a modular layout with catenary (with overhead wire included)?????For me I would prefer the catenary of Sommerfeld, because they have the Swiss one.. Unfortunately Marklin never had the idea to make a swiss catenary... One of my club members told me he would set up the pantographs also like this so that the catenary just will not be touched by the pantograph..with some little bit strong glue you can do it.... And I think that is a good idea if you do not wanna risk that your pantographs will be broken from time to time..... Or you just put only the catenary masts and you leave the pantographs down....
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metpo		#19 Posted : 25 January 2008 10:11:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/02/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: ,		ttreexpress, about using a nylon wire: I have also been thinking about it already.... Nylon is thinner plus perhaps easier to add? ANyone has some experiences about this?
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rschaffr		#20 Posted : 25 January 2008 14:59:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Larry: the old Marklin catenary is very easy to work with and is very robust. If you don't care about looks (it is way oversize and not prototypical at all) it is certainly reliable. Viessmann takes a bit of maintenance to keep it functional, but generally it stays in place as long as you do not disturb it (placing a lok on the track, working on a track section, working on scenery close to the track). I just have to inspect the region I worked in before sending a lok down the rails. I really like the looks of it, though, so I put in the effort. It is amazing how much strength the little y-links have. I have had one rip a pantograph right off the top of the lok. If you look at them you would think they would come off or break themselves first.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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DaleSchultz		#21 Posted : 25 January 2008 16:06:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997		I think nylon wire would be very difficult to use. Catenary has two man strands, a horizontal line that the pantograph touches and a support wire above it that sags in the middle (under the weight of the lower wire) then there are vertical support wires between the two - at different lengths. Can't imagine how one could do this with nylon thread.
		Dale Intellibox + own software, K-Track My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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TTRExpress		#22 Posted : 25 January 2008 16:34:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC) Posts: 655		Metpo and Dale, I thought of Nylon as an alternative just for looks. One could use a simple pole structure such as Sommerfeldt offers and simply use super glue to attach the line. I have not used Nylon line for this application but it is a "cheap" alternative if you want something attached to your catenary poles. You could use N-scale or maybe even Z-scale track also as your overhead line but you would still need to solder it. Regards (a Scottish Highlander in Wisconsin)
		Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin), Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
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dntower85		#23 Posted : 25 January 2008 18:37:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,218 Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA		I have been kicking around the ideal of using stainless steal aircraft safety wire for the Catenary wire. That way for my long straights I could have it made out of a single section. I plan to make a jig on a peace of 2x4 using small nails (with the heads cut off) to wrap the wire around. The only problem I see is soldering or welding the vertical supports. >===<>===<>===<>===<>===<>===<>===<>===< If I can make it I think there will be less likly to fall off than the smaller section.
		DT Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
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metpo		#24 Posted : 28 January 2008 12:09:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/02/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: ,		anyone knows good links about catenary? After reading and checking some more on internet, I think I would do as follows: use catenary poles for sure from Sommerfeld (single tracks) If possible make myself a nylon wire.. If I can obtain mroe info about this.. Make it like that that the pantographs do not touch the "catenary" (pantographs left down or make them just not too high (with glue or so) A Nylon can be really strong, and it is even thinner than the ones from Viessmann or Sommerfeldt..so more realistic for the visual aspects... I read that in case the pantographs are touching the whole time the metal catenary, after a while the pantographs can also get used/broken and so this makes it more expensive... Looking forward to see/read some more about his difficult issue... After all I do not think lots of model railroaders are using a catenary with the pantographs totally touching it....
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rschaffr		#25 Posted : 28 January 2008 15:33:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		I have full contact catenary, but that is my choice. as to wear, it is no more than the pickup shoes. I have yet to have to change a pantograph due to wear, after about four years of operation. (I have destroyed a few due to hangups, though [:(]).
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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metpo		#26 Posted : 29 January 2008 07:12:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/02/2007(UTC) Posts: 303 Location: ,		damn.. 4 years is not so long... it shows that using the pantographs gives too many risks that they will be destroyed... thanks for infos rschaffr
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rschaffr		#27 Posted : 25 April 2008 22:13:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Sorry to dredge up this old thread, but I have come to an important decision...I am moving all my loks to track power and removing all the hidden catenary. In a recent extended operating session, I did some analysis of the problems I had to deal with, and well over half (about 75%) of them dealt with hidden catenary in very inconvenient places. I recently reworked my temporary turn around area to be without catenary and created "capture" sections where it transitioned to the catenary areas to evaluate this concept. It worked flawlessly. Starting next week, all pantographs are being locked down while I remove the hidden catenary and install capture sections at the exits from the hidden areas. Once done, I will re-erect all the (now non-functional) pantographs. I do have to report that I had not one single problem in about four years of running digital over the catenary, though. This decision is only due to the high upkeep of the non-visible sections.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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DaleSchultz		#28 Posted : 25 April 2008 23:46:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997		Hi Ron, I admire your decision! :-)
		Dale Intellibox + own software, K-Track My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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spitzenklasse		#29 Posted : 26 April 2008 00:05:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,573 Location: ,		You can buy nylon, or polyester craft wire. I hung up my marklin ballons with it. It is springy, so it gives. Much friendlier to pantos. Another wire you may want to look into is called tigertail wire. It is used for stringing beaded jewlry.
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jonquinn		#30 Posted : 26 April 2008 01:43:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,591 Location: Pennsylvania		how bad can viessmann catenary wire be when wheel flanges on marklin cars/wagons and locos is about 25 times actual size. just saying that there are many compromises in scale and size of HO models. how does the sommerfeldt catenary compare in appearance to viessmann? it looks like it might be a little nicer, but it appears to be a more complicated system to install (I have only seen catalog photos).
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rschaffr		#31 Posted : 26 April 2008 03:27:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Dale: It was not an easy decision, but the right one. I really liked running e-loks from the overhead, but the problems just got too much.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Caplin		#32 Posted : 26 April 2008 15:23:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Ron, Thank you very much for your report. I have had many doubts about installing a catenary system or not in my upcoming permanent layout. I always thought that the overhead wires have this "clumsy" look being too thick in scale - not to mention the track access problem. Based on your findings it is now clear to me. If I install catenary it will be powerless and only in visible areas utilizing "capture sections", as you have described and possibly using thin types of wire as suggested by spitzenklasse. Hope that in due time you will add a couple of photos that show how you have done these capture sections.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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rschaffr		#33 Posted : 26 April 2008 16:35:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Benny: I will take a picture, but it is easy to describe. I took a short piece of 1" x1" wood (2.5cm x 2.5 cm by about 3cm) and glued it next to the track, then mounted a standard catenary mast on it and ran the wires to it. It raises it high enough to capture the pantograph. I feel that the Viessmann catenary is thin enough (even though it is thicker than a prototypical wire would be) as shown in the pictures above.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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rschaffr		#34 Posted : 29 April 2008 05:40:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Benny: As promised: [image]http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/images/cattrans.jpg[/image]
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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DaleSchultz		#35 Posted : 29 April 2008 05:45:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 3,997		here is how I did it: http://layout.mixmox.com...20020420Tunnelcatenarary and the finished result: http://layout.mixmox.com...0511Hikerswathcingatrain (same part of the layout)
		Dale Intellibox + own software, K-Track My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
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Caplin		#36 Posted : 29 April 2008 09:39:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Very good solutions for tunnel exits. Thank you Ron and Dale for the ideas.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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kimballthurlow		#37 Posted : 30 April 2008 07:40:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,765 Location: Brisbane, Australia		Thanks for the topic, excellent discussions and examples. Useful for my own layout. regards Kimball
		HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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rschaffr		#38 Posted : 01 May 2008 16:53:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Status update: I have now removed about 70% of my hidden catenary and have equipped three of the six exits with "capture sections". One thing you must consider if you plan to do this is to assure that the fully extended pantographs will clear any obstructions in the hidden areas. I have been pushing my "worst case" panto around as I do this (it is the dummy section of my ICE) and have had to relocate three sets of wires and install a safety slider (just a piece of flat metal) over two places where I spliced two sheets of plywood together.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Maxi		#39 Posted : 01 May 2008 17:21:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 757 Location: Wawa, Ontario		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr <br />Status update: I have now removed about 70% of my hidden catenary and have equipped three of the six exits with "capture sections". One thing you must consider if you plan to do this is to assure that the fully extended pantographs will clear any obstructions in the hidden areas. Perhaps in those sections of limited height then a capture section on both sides (incase a locomotive goes the wrong way) to force the pantograph down in a controlled way would help reduce a snag.
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rschaffr		#40 Posted : 01 May 2008 17:53:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		That is basically what I have done, except that I used a section of Noch tunnel catenary on it's side attached directly to the overhead to get through the restricted area rather than erect poles, etc.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Maxi		#41 Posted : 01 May 2008 18:17:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 757 Location: Wawa, Ontario		What would really count is that there is a smooth arc on both sides of the height restriction. Not having poles in the way would be even better
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rschaffr		#42 Posted : 05 May 2008 02:43:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Well, the job is done. I just have two pantogrpahs I would feel more comfortable at a lower elevation when extended (one being my "worst case" ICE dummy). Restricting the extension on those is my project for tonight. I already have seen a benefit from this effort... I ran the vacuum on the tracks in the hidden areas...haven't been able to get that in because of the poles for years. Also makes track cleaning easier.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Bigdaddynz		#43 Posted : 07 May 2008 13:19:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand		A video entitled 'Marklin Modellbahn Anlagen Ho Teil' that I downloaded off the net showed this method for transitioning from catenary to no catenary and back again. Please excuse the resolution of the picture, but this shot shows reasonably well the concept. The video goes on to show locos going through this section with the pantographs latching on and coming off the catenary with no problems - even single arm pantographs going open end forward. Edited by moderator 11 January 2011 20:14:29(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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rschaffr		#44 Posted : 07 May 2008 19:02:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		I finished mine last night and ran all my pantograph engines that are currently active on the layout for several cycles with no problems. I am happy with the setup now. I had to install two strips of metal under some wood splices where I had joined two sections of plywood together. the splices were low enough to be touched by a few of the pantographs, so i decided to play it safe. I also had to give some screen mesh that was sticking down from some plasterwork a "haircut" for clearance, but the problems were minimal.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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rschaffr		#45 Posted : 22 May 2008 23:08:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		I had a significant operating session last night....thought I would update this with the comment that things are oh so much easier without all those poles and wires under the layout. I can actually reach sections of track to clean them now and have not had a derailment in the hidden areas due to a hung pantograph (a real problem before) since I removed the hidden catenary.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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MarioFabro		#46 Posted : 22 May 2008 23:15:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/10/2001(UTC) Posts: 793 Location: Pittsburgh,		A side question on catenary.. how is the pantograph wear if you run your models continuously? I am considering catenary but would only run the panto's up for pictures or movie shots or to display to friends. When "playing" I would save the wear.
		Era IV-VI --- "If you have brains you love trains" or "When I grow up, I will play with trains"
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rschaffr		#47 Posted : 22 May 2008 23:33:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,188 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA		Mario: I have been running with catenary in contact for over four years now (and until recently even in hidden areas) and have yet to replace a pantograph due to wear. I have destroyed a few when they hung up on a misplace wire, slid off the wire and contacted a pole, or hung on a Viessmann y-link, but none for wear.
		-Ron Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051) http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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Rowan		#48 Posted : 23 May 2008 04:08:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,278 Location: Brisbane, Queensland		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr <br />Benny: As promised: [image]http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/images/cattrans.jpg[/image] Nice one Ron!
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Tivvy		#49 Posted : 23 May 2008 13:51:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 414 Location: Melbourne, Victoria		Excelent Pics Lutz Love the freight train [:P] EDIT - Does anyone from Europe know (or can give a reasonable estimate) the thickness of the catenery wires?
		Ep IV / V Marklin Layout 6 track dead end station, twin track loop, 4 track through station. Under construction.
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