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Offline kiwiAlan  
#51 Posted : 31 January 2019 18:54:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,295
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I was thinking how nice the loco looked in the video until it got to the turnouts...

That's a hell of a rough ride! No wonder the driver is putting out a smoke screen to hide his embarrassment! BigGrin


The owner of the layout should be embarrassed to be showing a video of such bad track work. You can see the coaches rocking and rolling as they cross the points as well, not just the loco.



And one would fix this how?
Isn’t it the track piece geometry and the gaps in it that are going to cause this as the loco crosses over at a slow speed, whereby one gets the maximum movement into any rail gaps?


Well, looking at the video there is something sticking way up that seems to interfere with the wheels, and i don't think it is a Puko, but the shooting angle and the 'focus on the nearest object' makes it hard to tell. But I don't believe a 6 wheel item like a V60 would normally bounce like that one is.

Offline mbarreto  
#52 Posted : 31 January 2019 19:18:16(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 844
Don't know if it this, but maybe:

At time 2:19 it seems that in crossing it seems that exists an additional part in the piece that pushes the wheels outwards.
I don't know how those peaces are called, but I mean the small segment of rail that are parallell to the outer rails to push the wheels outwards.
Also it doesn't seem they exist everywhere.
Its existence is probably to counter act the fact that DC wheelsets (probably not a problem for the V60 of ESU) don't derrail. The best alternative to this is, of course, to use DC sized wheelsets.
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline RayF  
#53 Posted : 31 January 2019 20:30:03(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,331
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I don't see anything wrong with the track. What I see is that the loco's wheels dip into the gaps in the frogs, probably due to the wheel standards being different from the normal AC standards. The bogies on the coaches seem to cope much better with these crossings than the loco.

There is an audible "clunk" where the loco wheels actually fall in the gaps. I see this happen on my C-track layout sometimes when I use a non-Marklin wagon with its original DC wheel sets. At a higher speed this might even cause a derailment.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Minok  
#54 Posted : 31 January 2019 20:54:13(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,926
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
Don't know if it this, but maybe:

At time 2:19 it seems that in crossing it seems that exists an additional part in the piece that pushes the wheels outwards.
I don't know how those peaces are called, but I mean the small segment of rail that are parallell to the outer rails to push the wheels outwards.
Also it doesn't seem they exist everywhere.
Its existence is probably to counter act the fact that DC wheelsets (probably not a problem for the V60 of ESU) don't derrail. The best alternative to this is, of course, to use DC sized wheelsets.


It is merely the wheel dipping down into the gap that exists in the switch/crossing. Physics. The gap can be smaller with a more crossing angle, but for a turnout the gap has to be wide. With a loco with a few wheels, the weight will force the corner of the loco down. If this was a longer 8 axel loco, then of course as the first axel went over the gap, the center of gravity is well behind the gap and so the corner would not dip down, and but with this shorter locomotive it pivots down. I suppose if they had the room to do so, they could build the locomotive so that as much of the weight as possible was over the center axel, thus when either of the end axels are over a gap, they don't drop, but just float; of course this would put all the traction requirements on those two center wheels then. To get good traction you want as many wheel doing the work, which be definition means you need downward force on them.

ESU-TrackJoint.png
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline mbarreto  
#55 Posted : 31 January 2019 21:30:59(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 844

It is one great advantage of Märklin over the others: Märklin knows how to do locomotives. Many many years of experience.
The placement of the center of mass, the allowances between the moving parts, the height from the rail to the chassi, the spring tension
of the sky and several other details are critical for the good ride of the locomotives and clearly Märklin knows it well, specially for 3 rails. (Roco
is also good in that although I only saw few 3 rail models from them. Fleischman was also very good in 3 rails). As you say, these problems are usually more evident in smaller locomotives.
Despite all this, the ESU V60 rides witout derrailing. Maybe that video just shows us the worst case scenario.
Anyway, happily I am not having that type of problems, guess why :)

Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline David Dewar  
#56 Posted : 31 January 2019 21:34:21(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,628
Location: Scotland
Does not look a good advert for ESU locos. But they don't make track so they should ensure that their stuff is suitable for Marklin track. However it could be the fault of the track and we will only know of somebody here buys one and gives us a test run. Goofy maybe !!
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Purellum  
#57 Posted : 31 January 2019 22:43:41(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,021
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

In our small world, the rolling stock are resting on the flanges when passing a turnout.

If the flanges are too big for the turnouts, the loco will "ride high" and not touch the rails when passing the heart-piece.

If the flanges are too small for the turnouts, the loco will drop down when passing the heart-piece.

In this case we see small ( DC-wheels ) flanges crossing a turnout build for Märklin-standard flanges.

PECO makes turnouts for 1-scale, where there's a little shims in the heart-piece that can be removed, if you use G-scale rolling stock.

You can see it here, under the screw:

https://cdn.shopify.com/....pdf?6123728320125993344

UserPostedImage

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline DV  
#58 Posted : 01 February 2019 12:11:11(UTC)
DV

Australia   
Joined: 29/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 842
Location: Mount Barker, South Australia
Well here's my video and all went very well. Granted crossing the points was done at speed, but the loco still ran great. Club layout (at this stage) doesn't have too many switches, but I will give the loco a slower run on my layout (when I re-build itBlushing....hopefully in the next weekThumpUp )

No sound as my German is non-existent and I couldn't understand the instruction book (or the ESU video). Also I was using a CS2 and there were many icons repeated, so careful study will have to be done in the next.....................BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

Anyway I hope you enjoy the video



It is a very beautiful model, top class workmanship
Dusan V
'I find your lack of faith (in Märklin) disturbing'
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Offline David Dewar  
#59 Posted : 01 February 2019 12:23:08(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,628
Location: Scotland
Thanks for video. Pity about the sound though. Was considering buying but will give it a miss as there could be too many problems. Interesting to see how it goes over turnouts on different types of Marklin tracks. Looks a reasonable price for the specification.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline RayF  
#60 Posted : 01 February 2019 12:25:57(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,331
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: DV Go to Quoted Post
Well here's my video and all went very well. Granted crossing the points was done at speed, but the loco still ran great. Club layout (at this stage) doesn't have too many switches, but I will give the loco a slower run on my layout (when I re-build itBlushing....hopefully in the next weekThumpUp )

No sound as my German is non-existent and I couldn't understand the instruction book (or the ESU video). Also I was using a CS2 and there were many icons repeated, so careful study will have to be done in the next.....................BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

Anyway I hope you enjoy the video

,,,,

It is a very beautiful model, top class workmanship


I agree it is a beautiful looking model. ThumpUp

I also think that C-track is kinder to all trains. I remember seeing a huge improvement of the running of my trains over turnouts when I switched from M-track to C-track.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Rwill  
#61 Posted : 01 February 2019 14:58:57(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 506
Location: England, London
Considering folks were commenting that the last version had difficulty pulling more than one truck that video seems to indicate they have solved that issue! For me its still a lot of money for a "shunter"
Offline Minok  
#62 Posted : 02 February 2019 00:20:05(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,926
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: DV Go to Quoted Post
Well here's my video and all went very well. Granted crossing the points was done at speed, but the loco still ran great. Club layout (at this stage) doesn't have too many switches, but I will give the loco a slower run on my layout (when I re-build itBlushing....hopefully in the next weekThumpUp )

No sound as my German is non-existent and I couldn't understand the instruction book (or the ESU video). Also I was using a CS2 and there were many icons repeated, so careful study will have to be done in the next.....................BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin

Anyway I hope you enjoy the video



It is a very beautiful model, top class workmanship


The manual for it is available in English : http://www.esu.eu/en/dow...esu-engineering-edition/
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Minok
DV
Offline nhumps  
#63 Posted : 02 February 2019 05:48:44(UTC)
nhumps

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/12/2018(UTC)
Posts: 7
Location: Wellington
Unless the prototype emits it out vertically several meters ... I feel the smoke pattern could be improved for the next version Blink
Offline RayF  
#64 Posted : 03 February 2019 11:44:50(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,331
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: nhumps Go to Quoted Post
Unless the prototype emits it out vertically several meters ... I feel the smoke pattern could be improved for the next version Blink


Yes I felt that too, but didn't comment as I didn't want to be seen as "negative". The smoke doesn't much resemble the exhaust of a diesel engine does it?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline mbarreto  
#65 Posted : 03 February 2019 13:04:57(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: nhumps Go to Quoted Post
Unless the prototype emits it out vertically several meters ... I feel the smoke pattern could be improved for the next version Blink


Yes I felt that too, but didn't comment as I didn't want to be seen as "negative". The smoke doesn't much resemble the exhaust of a diesel engine does it?


I also think that when the smoke is at "full speed". The transitions seems ok to me.
I don't know if the maximum "smoke speed" (volume/time) can be limted by configuration.

Regards


Mostly Märklin H0.


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