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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 01 January 2019 16:11:35(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,961
ESU new diesel locomotive V60 with the new generation loksound V5!!!

Edited by moderator 01 January 2019 21:39:21(UTC)  | Reason: Added Youtube tags

DCC means Digital Command Control.

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Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 01 January 2019 16:22:50(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,961
There is 31 functions but ESU Ecos 50210 handle just only 28 functions.
This means possible new upgrade or a new central station...
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline mbarreto  
#3 Posted : 01 January 2019 22:00:40(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 844
At time 2:04 of the youtube video it is written Loksound 5 Railcomm M4.

Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline kgsjoqvist  
#4 Posted : 01 January 2019 23:01:20(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 707
Location: Täby
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
There is 31 functions but ESU Ecos 50210 handle just only 28 functions.
This means possible new upgrade or a new central station...


28 (or 29) seems to be the maximum number of functions in the DCC specs. Perhaps they use M4 (mfx) which allows for 32. Anyway it’s a new generation of decoders and possibly a software upgrade for ECoS will be available. Just like Märklin CS2 with latent software gets 32 functions instead of 16. 16 physical buttons and 16 more on the display...
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 01 January 2019 23:15:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,433
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kgsjoqvist Go to Quoted Post
28 (or 29) seems to be the maximum number of functions in the DCC specs.
Nope. AFAIK the limit is 16384 functions per address with DCC, but not all decoders and not all controllers support more than 29 functions (but I know that Uhlenbrock decoders and controllers do, but some controllers are limited to 9999 functions).

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#6 Posted : 01 January 2019 23:44:21(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,295
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kgsjoqvist Go to Quoted Post
28 (or 29) seems to be the maximum number of functions in the DCC specs.
Nope. AFAIK the limit is 16384 functions per address with DCC, but not all decoders and not all controllers support more than 29 functions (but I know that Uhlenbrock decoders and controllers do, but some controllers are limited to 9999 functions).



Agreed, the 16384 functions came in at the same time that the NMRA expanded the 'normal' functions to the 28/29, but I believe the 16384 function method uses a different message format which no-one seems to have implemented yet. Goodness only knows what all those functions would be used for, we have enough useless functions fitted by Marklin now ... Blink

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Offline cookee_nz  
#7 Posted : 02 January 2019 06:38:48(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 2,963
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Does it say if they are going to offer it in 3-rail also?
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Purellum  
#8 Posted : 02 January 2019 07:13:33(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,021
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: cookee_nz Go to Quoted Post
Does it say if they are going to offer it in 3-rail also?


They write it in the specs:

Originally Posted by: ESU Go to Quoted Post
Die Umrüstung von AC (Werkszustand) auf DC-Betrieb erfolgt durch Abziehen des Mittelschleifers und durch umschalten eines kleinen Schiebeschalters unmittelbar vor der vorderen Achse.


http://www.esu.eu/en/pro...s-in-h0/class-v60-in-h0/

I'm impressed !! Drool

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#9 Posted : 02 January 2019 10:37:43(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,560
Location: New Zealand
Do we have any indication of the likely price?
Offline Goofy  
#10 Posted : 02 January 2019 11:31:18(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,961
Possible between € 420-450 euro.
Brawa do also start produce V 60 and the prices seems same like ESU.
ESU delivery V 60 Q1/2019 while Brawa is Q3/2019.
DCC means Digital Command Control.

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Offline DV  
#11 Posted : 02 January 2019 12:23:10(UTC)
DV

Australia   
Joined: 29/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 842
Location: Mount Barker, South Australia
Just saw this on FB from Lippe

ESU V60
Dusan V
'I find your lack of faith (in Märklin) disturbing'
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Online Rwill  
#12 Posted : 02 January 2019 14:10:26(UTC)
Rwill

United Kingdom   
Joined: 04/05/2015(UTC)
Posts: 506
Location: England, London
The new ESU V60 topic comes at an ironic time for me. Over the holiday I have been messing around on a little project. I found in the storage room my first Marklin baseboard from 30 years ago which was an 1800mm three siding shunting puzzle layout based on K track. The layout used a 3665 V60 a 3696 tank loco and eight era IV freight wagons all with relex couplers. Both loks have telex and this was supplemented by three track uncouplers. This little layout provided hours of fun, education and frustration for me and the kids.

The whole of my Marklin kit went to the storage loft for about fifteen years until about five years ago when I was nearing retirement. I have since invested in a modest layout based on C track and some new loks and rolling stock. A couple of loks have the newer telex which works OK with the newer NEM couplings but I have never been totally impressed and mixing Nem and reflex is a nightmare. The old 3665 telex does not like the Nem couplers at all. I keep wondering whether the new telex on the Insider Croc will become the norm for a couple of new item shunters in the near future.

I would like to reconstruct this little puzzle in some form to keep my brain occupied and perhaps to educate the increasing brood of grandchildren.

My options were:

To use the old 3665 and relex freight wagons. However even after a clean and oil up this lok with its old decoder is still a bit “jerky”. With my fudgy fingers I am not into rebuilding with new decoders and sound etc

To invest in a 37861 V60 with all the bells and whistles and use Nem wagons.

And then of course Goofy announces the new ESU V60 and I was instantly smitten. Problem one I should have to do some smart undercover accounting to keep the expense from the FD. Problem two I am not sure the ESU copes with Marklin couplers can someone tell me if I am correct.

Your thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.

Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 02 January 2019 16:28:05(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,961
ESU digital couples are magnetic and you should use plastic coupler like Roco.
I use Roco coupler number 40395.
They are perfect!

By the way...did you know Brawa also present new V60 with the digital coupler too that are same like Lenz in scale H0?
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 03 January 2019 01:08:06(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,560
Location: New Zealand
Merged RWill's post into main ESU V60 topic.
Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 03 January 2019 02:28:26(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,445
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
some questions I can comment on: the new telex coupling from ESU is adjustable in height. how this works is anybody's guess, is it manually or digital ? or do have to adjust it every time you use a different carriage and coupling mechanism, secondly the price I've seen so far is Euro 399.00 from Modellbahn Lippe.
regarding the next generation Loksound 5 with 31 functions is another not yet explained new item. the loco has various digital functions such as applying the brake and the loco will go into braking mode and when releasing this function the loco will start moving again. the smoke generator is synchronized with the motor and also releases more smoke when the diesel motor is activated. there are several different light functions, it has an inbuilt battery resource for constant contact, its an all metal model with a bell shaped motor, there is one wheel with a rubber tyre, the interior consists of interior cab light and lit up instrument panel (digital activated), a driver is also present.

comparing prices with Märklin's steam loco BR 08 for Euro 600.00, the Märklin loco doesn't look that expensive than, one would imagine its at least 3 times the size in length and one can just speculate where the main cost is coming from, metal, design, molds, electronics ?

Loksound V 5.0 will be another wake up call for us, part from 28 functions to 31 what else will it bring that is new or will the V 4.0 be upgradable to V 5.0 and this will be in conjunction with the ECoS., will there be more Aux functions as well ?
I personally haven't had any information from ESU as yet, which is not unusual.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Goofy  
#16 Posted : 03 January 2019 09:22:09(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,961
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
some questions I can comment on: the new telex coupling from ESU is adjustable in height. how this works is anybody's guess, is it manually or digital ?
Loksound V 5.0 will be another wake up call for us, part from 28 functions to 31 what else will it bring that is new or will the V 4.0 be upgradable to V 5.0 and this will be in conjunction with the ECoS., will there be more Aux functions as well ?
I personally haven't had any information from ESU as yet, which is not unusual.

John


How shall you do that by adjust the height of the telex couple with digital? Confused
Not sure if there is more AUX functions but if then ESU must put more power consumption in the decoder.
Loksound V 4.0 do have 1,1 Amp.
Loksound V 5.0 1,3-1,5 Amp?

DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline river6109  
#17 Posted : 03 January 2019 10:39:23(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,445
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
some questions I can comment on: the new telex coupling from ESU is adjustable in height. how this works is anybody's guess, is it manually or digital ?
Loksound V 5.0 will be another wake up call for us, part from 28 functions to 31 what else will it bring that is new or will the V 4.0 be upgradable to V 5.0 and this will be in conjunction with the ECoS., will there be more Aux functions as well ?
I personally haven't had any information from ESU as yet, which is not unusual.

John


How shall you do that by adjust the height of the telex couple with digital? Confused
Not sure if there is more AUX functions but if then ESU must put more power consumption in the decoder.
Loksound V 4.0 do have 1,1 Amp.
Loksound V 5.0 1,3-1,5 Amp?



Goofy, it was just a thought, nothing to do with actual facts.
we will hear about the facts when they are released

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Nigel Packer  
#18 Posted : 03 January 2019 12:11:24(UTC)
Nigel Packer

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 552
Location: Cheshire, UK
I have the original ESU version of this locomotive (ESU part number 31060).

Whilst it looks beautiful, and has all the features of the newly announced version (diesel smoke, Telex couplers, full sound, curve sensors, etc), its tractive effort is so low that it cannot pull anything at all on my layout. Even a couple of wagons is too much.

Although made of metal, the loco is very light, and with only a single traction tyre can barely move its own weight. It's a shame, as I was going to use it as a shunting loco on my layout.

Of course, I can't say that the new ESU V60 will have the same problem, but I would suggest you try one on a test track before you buy it!

Nigel
Märklin collector since age 5.
H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Offline Goofy  
#19 Posted : 03 January 2019 15:05:00(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,961
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
I have the original ESU version of this locomotive (ESU part number 31060).

Whilst it looks beautiful, and has all the features of the newly announced version (diesel smoke, Telex couplers, full sound, curve sensors, etc), its tractive effort is so low that it cannot pull anything at all on my layout. Even a couple of wagons is too much.

Although made of metal, the loco is very light, and with only a single traction tyre can barely move its own weight. It's a shame, as I was going to use it as a shunting loco on my layout.

Of course, I can't say that the new ESU V60 will have the same problem, but I would suggest you try one on a test track before you buy it!

Nigel


ESU did verified that the tension has been more improved with the new construction.

Edited by user 03 January 2019 22:03:51(UTC)  | Reason: Changed the word

DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline kiwiAlan  
#20 Posted : 03 January 2019 15:30:31(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,295
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post

regarding the next generation Loksound 5 with 31 functions is another not yet explained new item. the loco has various digital functions such as applying the brake and the loco will go into braking mode and when releasing this function the loco will start moving again. the smoke generator is synchronized with the motor and also releases more smoke when the diesel motor is activated. there are several different light functions, it has an inbuilt battery resource for constant contact, its an all metal model with a bell shaped motor, there is one wheel with a rubber tyre, the interior consists of interior cab light and lit up instrument panel (digital activated), a driver is also present.


I posted a note about this loco on the Loksound Yahoo email group, and soemone else came back with this lot ...

On the German forum (Drehscheibe) is a thread about this. According to this thread there was newsletter from ESU to the retailers about the next generation sound decoder. With the following specs:

50 KHz control
32 bit processor
128 MBit
16 bit with 31250 Hz Sampling
up to 32 functions

See https://www.drehscheibe-...php?010,8792695,page=all

It will be interesting to know what this means to all the existing V4 and Select installations etc. The sound library etc.
In the US ESU has made a strong name with their sound library. In Europe some other manufacturers, for example Zimo, have jumped into this space and have (according to some) a more compelling product. The Loksound 5 will be an answer to this.

Interesting times.


So it seems that Marklin and Zimo have started to give ESU a run for their money, and ESU is responding in kind ... BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin


Offline river6109  
#21 Posted : 03 January 2019 15:49:06(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,445
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer Go to Quoted Post
I have the original ESU version of this locomotive (ESU part number 31060).

Whilst it looks beautiful, and has all the features of the newly announced version (diesel smoke, Telex couplers, full sound, curve sensors, etc), its tractive effort is so low that it cannot pull anything at all on my layout. Even a couple of wagons is too much.

Although made of metal, the loco is very light, and with only a single traction tyre can barely move its own weight. It's a shame, as I was going to use it as a shunting loco on my layout.

Of course, I can't say that the new ESU V60 will have the same problem, but I would suggest you try one on a test track before you buy it!

Nigel


Nigel, so far rubber tyres are concerned nothing has changed and even the video it shows only 3 carriages which I thought was dismal, most probably one could change this 2 rubber tyres but not knowing how hard or easy it would be to exchange wheels and secondly for the money you pay someone at ESU has come up with an overreacted cautious design to make sure the loco doesn't have any lack of track contact it has a power pack as well.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline MaerklinLife  
#22 Posted : 03 January 2019 19:44:11(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Nigel, so far rubber tyres are concerned nothing has changed and even the video it shows only 3 carriages which I thought was dismal, most probably one could change this 2 rubber tyres but not knowing how hard or easy it would be to exchange wheels and secondly for the money you pay someone at ESU has come up with an overreacted cautious design to make sure the loco doesn't have any lack of track contact it has a power pack as well.

To be honest: If there is a need to add rubber tires for the model to work properly (we don't know yet if that is the case), then please punish ESU by not buying the model at all. It should not be necessary to cash out 400 Euroes and then having to modify the model for it to actually work.
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Offline H0  
#23 Posted : 03 January 2019 20:01:46(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,433
Location: DE-NW
Let's face it: modern locos are often much more fragile than their predecessors and have a much lower weight and lower tractive effort.

The tractive effort of a Märklin Köf II or Köf III (no traction tyres) is rather low and they work best with 2 or 2 two-axle cars or up to 2 four-axle cars.

Modern cars with plastic frames and tip bearings will work much better than old cars with needle bearings.

Those who are concerned about tractive effort can wait with their orders until we have loco reviews that show how much the loco can pull.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline mbarreto  
#24 Posted : 03 January 2019 20:47:17(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 844

I also have doubts about how long the cogwheels of a single axle powered locmotive will last when compared to the old multi axle powered steamers.
I don't think in this case we need a review for all the locomotives, but be presented with the conclusions of a lab test for 2 scenarios, like for example between a 30470-1 and a 37836 (if this is not single axle powered, please correct by giving other that is).
I consider that a locomotive is not multi axle powered when only one of the axles have cogwheels. If this assumption is not correct then we must understadn how long lasts the side rods.
Other opinions or comments on this are welcome.




Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline Minok  
#25 Posted : 03 January 2019 21:28:03(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,926
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kgsjoqvist Go to Quoted Post
28 (or 29) seems to be the maximum number of functions in the DCC specs.
Nope. AFAIK the limit is 16384 functions per address with DCC, but not all decoders and not all controllers support more than 29 functions (but I know that Uhlenbrock decoders and controllers do, but some controllers are limited to 9999 functions).



Agreed, the 16384 functions came in at the same time that the NMRA expanded the 'normal' functions to the 28/29, but I believe the 16384 function method uses a different message format which no-one seems to have implemented yet. Goodness only knows what all those functions would be used for, we have enough useless functions fitted by Marklin now ... Blink



The 16384 functions implies 14 bits of data, if we need an additional 1 bit to say if the function is on or off, thats 15 bits of data.

The DCC standard's extended format allows for 5, 13, or 21 bits of data (unless I'm reading the wrong section or not digging deep enough into it), but it sees the DCC standards from the NMRA provide for way more than 16384 functions (with a 21 bit payload), though no one has build such a decoder/encoder pair I assume.

Is s-9.2.1 the right place to find this?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
Offline Minok  
#26 Posted : 03 January 2019 21:47:55(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,926
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
The model looks very interesting indeed. The volume available to the loco is fixed based on the prototype and H0 scale. So all ESU can do is increase the density to make it heavier to put more weight down on the small wheel/rail head interface. The single rubber traction tire is likely a compromise of traction vs reliable power pickup and operation across various turnouts and crossings.

I'm intrigued with the shunting announcement of the length to go to the point of coupling; is that just arbitrary and relies on the user pressing the function key for the speech at a specific distance from the target? I can see it possibly adjusting when the various announcements of (3 lengths, 2 lengths, 1 lengths, 1/2 lengths away) happen based on speed but how is the initial distance determined I wonder. A distance sensor could be estimating that distance.
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Minok1217/
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Offline H0  
#27 Posted : 03 January 2019 21:57:05(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,433
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
though no one has build such a decoder/encoder pair I assume.
As I wrote I have an Uhlenbrock decoder that supports functions beyond F28 and my IB could be upgraded to version 2.0 to get support for functions beyond F28.
I haven't tried it, but this is a known encoder/decoder pair.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Danlake  
#28 Posted : 06 January 2019 08:46:19(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,408
Someone have google translated below from Esu website regarding the new Esu decoders V5 (all though I was unable locate the German text from Esu website).

“The LokSound decoder of the fifth generation has been completely redeveloped. By using a new, powerful 32-bit processor, all the features of the previously known LokSound decoders have been significantly improved: LokSound 5 decoders play up to 10 sound channels simultaneously, each channel achieving hi-fi quality thanks to 16-bit resolution and 31250Hz sample rate, With a LokSound 5 decoder, the sound quality and dynamic range of your locomotives will almost match the original. 128 Mbit noise storage provide enough capacity.

LokSound 5 decoders feature even better engine load control with up to 50 kHz clock speed and noise-optimized motor control so that in the future even bell anchor or gauge 1 engines with excellent low-speed driving characteristics will drive silently.

LokSound 5 decoders have numerous outputs for controlling light and additional functions and can control RC servos or SUSI modules as required.

In addition, every LokSound 5 decoder is a true multi-protocol decoder with all four known data formats: in addition to DCC with RailComPlus, they all understand the M4 format and automatically log on to modern Märklin® control units. Support for Motorola® and Selectrix® makes it possible to use it with older control panels. Furthermore, every (even N track!) LokSound 5 decoder can be run on analogue DC and AC systems. The desired operating mode is automatically detected.

Depending on the central unit, up to 32 functions are possible, which can be assigned any special functions with the uniquely flexible ESU function mapping. Three new, individually adjustable brake controls, as well as a two-stage heavy-load simulation, bring just as much joy of playing as the new random functions, with the help of which light effects can also be controlled at random. To meet the different sizes and power requirements of the vehicles, LokSound 5 decoders are offered in various versions."

Best Regards
Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Goofy  
#29 Posted : 06 January 2019 10:42:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,961
I suppose that the new Loksound V5.0 from the ESU can also use same sound files to download in ESU homepage?
Or there will be new sound files to present?
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline kiwiAlan  
#30 Posted : 06 January 2019 13:27:25(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,295
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I suppose that the new Loksound V5.0 from the ESU can also use same sound files to download in ESU homepage?
Or there will be new sound files to present?


Well, the existing software can convert loksound v3.5 files to v4 format, so I would the capability to be added to convert either of these to V5 format.

Offline river6109  
#31 Posted : 06 January 2019 13:58:48(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,445
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I suppose that the new Loksound V5.0 from the ESU can also use same sound files to download in ESU homepage?
Or there will be new sound files to present?


Well, the existing software can convert loksound v3.5 files to v4 format, so I would the capability to be added to convert either of these to V5 format.


Goofy, it says on the ESU Website when the new Loksound V 5.0 arrives new sound files will be updated for the loksound V 5.0

Alan, so far I'm aware of you can't change a Version 3.5 sound decoder to a Version 4.0 sound decoder.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline river6109  
#32 Posted : 06 January 2019 14:23:58(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,445
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
The model looks very interesting indeed. The volume available to the loco is fixed based on the prototype and H0 scale. So all ESU can do is increase the density to make it heavier to put more weight down on the small wheel/rail head interface. The single rubber traction tire is likely a compromise of traction vs reliable power pickup and operation across various turnouts and crossings.

I'm intrigued with the shunting announcement of the length to go to the point of coupling; is that just arbitrary and relies on the user pressing the function key for the speech at a specific distance from the target? I can see it possibly adjusting when the various announcements of (3 lengths, 2 lengths, 1 lengths, 1/2 lengths away) happen based on speed but how is the initial distance determined I wonder. A distance sensor could be estimating that distance.


Apparently they've changed the compound of the rubber tyre and they believe this will also increase the pulling power part from adding an extra weight at the back

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline kiwiAlan  
#33 Posted : 06 January 2019 19:02:11(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,295
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post

Alan, so far I'm aware of you can't change a Version 3.5 sound decoder to a Version 4.0 sound decoder.


My understanding from what is promulgated on the Loksound email group is that the Lokprogrammer software can import a v3.5 project and convert it to a v4 project. The results may not be ideal (due to sampling rate of the sound being converted, and so on) but at least makes a project available when no v4 project has yet been generated. I would expect a similar situation with v5 capable version of Lokprogrammer software.

I haven't had occasion to attempt such an import myself.

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Offline river6109  
#34 Posted : 07 January 2019 01:11:19(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,445
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post

Alan, so far I'm aware of you can't change a Version 3.5 sound decoder to a Version 4.0 sound decoder.


My understanding from what is promulgated on the Loksound email group is that the Lokprogrammer software can import a v3.5 project and convert it to a v4 project. The results may not be ideal (due to sampling rate of the sound being converted, and so on) but at least makes a project available when no v4 project has yet been generated. I would expect a similar situation with v5 capable version of Lokprogrammer software.

I haven't had occasion to attempt such an import myself.


I've tried it last night and tried it a while back, you can change the decoder version from 3.5. to V 4.0 but when you write the decoder data onto your decoder it says: this is a V 3.5 decoder and can't be converted to a V 4.0 decoder

the official price for the new V 60 is Euro 419.00

The version 31410 will be shipped from Week 02/2019, the others will follow in February.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline H0  
#35 Posted : 07 January 2019 08:53:57(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,433
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
I've tried it last night and tried it a while back, you can change the decoder version from 3.5. to V 4.0 but when you write the decoder data onto your decoder it says: this is a V 3.5 decoder and can't be converted to a V 4.0 decoder
It is possible to convert Loksound 3 decoders to Loksound 3.5 decoders with a firmware upgrade.

It is possible to convert Loksound 3.x projects to Loksound 4 projects. That's what Alan meant. (Not sure if the Lokprogrammer software can do it, but if not then ESU will have internal tools/ways for that task.)
You cannot convert Loksound 3.5 decoders to v4 decoders and you cannot load v4 projects onto 3.5 decoders. Nobody suggested that.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline river6109  
#36 Posted : 07 January 2019 09:20:33(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,445
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Alan wrote: My understanding from what is promulgated on the Loksound email group is that the Lokprogrammer software can import a v3.5 project and convert it to a v4 project.

Tom, I've left the word "Lokprogrammer" out, as Alan already mentioned the Lokprogrammer I had no reason to repeat it and on this assumption I said what I said and I've suggested nothing else, what ESU is capable of changing, convert, project of any decoder is not much help for us, the end consumer.
I thought with your past experiences you would be in a position to verify whether or not a sound decoder V 3.5 can be converted into a Version 4 sound decoder.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline kiwiAlan  
#37 Posted : 07 January 2019 15:10:01(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,295
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post

Alan, so far I'm aware of you can't change a Version 3.5 sound decoder to a Version 4.0 sound decoder.


My understanding from what is promulgated on the Loksound email group is that the Lokprogrammer software can import a v3.5 project and convert it to a v4 project. The results may not be ideal (due to sampling rate of the sound being converted, and so on) but at least makes a project available when no v4 project has yet been generated. I would expect a similar situation with v5 capable version of Lokprogrammer software.

I haven't had occasion to attempt such an import myself.


I've tried it last night and tried it a while back, you can change the decoder version from 3.5. to V 4.0 but when you write the decoder data onto your decoder it says: this is a V 3.5 decoder and can't be converted to a V 4.0 decoder

the official price for the new V 60 is Euro 419.00

The version 31410 will be shipped from Week 02/2019, the others will follow in February.

John


I haven't tried to convert a 3.5 project, but I believe you are using the wrong process, you don't load it as a 3.5 project and then change the decoder to a v4. You open the lokprogrammer, make connection with the v4 decoder, then IMPORT (not load) the v3,5 project. It needs to be imported into the v4 environment to do the required conversion, not read as a v3.5 then attempt a load into a v4 decoder. That doesn't do the required conversion.
Offline river6109  
#38 Posted : 07 January 2019 15:24:21(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 12,445
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post

Alan, so far I'm aware of you can't change a Version 3.5 sound decoder to a Version 4.0 sound decoder.


My understanding from what is promulgated on the Loksound email group is that the Lokprogrammer software can import a v3.5 project and convert it to a v4 project. The results may not be ideal (due to sampling rate of the sound being converted, and so on) but at least makes a project available when no v4 project has yet been generated. I would expect a similar situation with v5 capable version of Lokprogrammer software.

I haven't had occasion to attempt such an import myself.


I've tried it last night and tried it a while back, you can change the decoder version from 3.5. to V 4.0 but when you write the decoder data onto your decoder it says: this is a V 3.5 decoder and can't be converted to a V 4.0 decoder

the official price for the new V 60 is Euro 419.00

The version 31410 will be shipped from Week 02/2019, the others will follow in February.

John


I haven't tried to convert a 3.5 project, but I believe you are using the wrong process, you don't load it as a 3.5 project and then change the decoder to a v4. You open the lokprogrammer, make connection with the v4 decoder, then IMPORT (not load) the v3,5 project. It needs to be imported into the v4 environment to do the required conversion, not read as a v3.5 then attempt a load into a v4 decoder. That doesn't do the required conversion.


Alan, thank you for your explanation, I'll try this one and see how I go

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#39 Posted : 09 January 2019 02:37:47(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,560
Location: New Zealand
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Offline Marius in Africa  
#40 Posted : 11 January 2019 17:48:30(UTC)
Marius in Africa

South Africa   
Joined: 05/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 409
Location: Boksburg, Gauteng
Well the wondering is over, the unit is all ready being delivered, someone will be able to put it on a track somewhere in the world to test it.
Got my invite to confirm my order today, confirmed and payed for my order.
Hopefully it will arrive soon at my door. BigGrin
Marius in Africa

HO, ECoS 2, Märklin C-track, any country, any design, any era & any brand which i like.
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Offline Goofy  
#41 Posted : 11 January 2019 18:08:23(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,961
Originally Posted by: Marius in Africa Go to Quoted Post
Well the wondering is over, the unit is all ready being delivered, someone will be able to put it on a track somewhere in the world to test it.
Got my invite to confirm my order today, confirmed and payed for my order.
Hopefully it will arrive soon at my door. BigGrin


Yes i did heard a danish hobby store also got this new model arrived.

DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline GDJTrain65  
#42 Posted : 18 January 2019 20:53:02(UTC)
GDJTrain65

Sweden   
Joined: 13/01/2014(UTC)
Posts: 88
Location: Gävle, Sweden
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
ESU new diesel locomotive V60 with the new generation loksound V5!!!



Love V 60. And this one sounds great too.

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Offline Goofy  
#43 Posted : 31 January 2019 07:12:04(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,961
I have seen the V 60 in the Youtube and it jumps over switches...Blink
DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline kiwiAlan  
#44 Posted : 31 January 2019 12:21:07(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,295
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I have seen the V 60 in the Youtube and it jumps over switches...Blink


Was the video made in Australia? It may have been the kangaroo version ... Huh
Offline Goofy  
#45 Posted : 31 January 2019 12:49:53(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 7,961
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I have seen the V 60 in the Youtube and it jumps over switches...Blink


Was the video made in Australia? It may have been the kangaroo version ... Huh


No the problem are Märklin K-turnots.

DCC means Digital Command Control.

Offline PeFu  
#46 Posted : 31 January 2019 14:59:11(UTC)
PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 610
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I have seen the V 60 in the Youtube and it jumps over switches...Blink


Was the video made in Australia? It may have been the kangaroo version ... Huh


No the problem are Märklin K-turnots.



Not that bad, IMHO:


The Great Krok!
Inspired by Swiss railways (SBB/BLS/SOB), C and K track, CS2, TrainController Gold V9
Offline Marius in Africa  
#47 Posted : 31 January 2019 16:48:21(UTC)
Marius in Africa

South Africa   
Joined: 05/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 409
Location: Boksburg, Gauteng
Originally Posted by: PeFu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I have seen the V 60 in the Youtube and it jumps over switches...Blink


Was the video made in Australia? It may have been the kangaroo version ... Huh


No the problem are Märklin K-turnots.



Not that bad, IMHO:




Thank you for the video Peter.
Now the "non-jumping" V60s videos can be placed by the members claiming that the ESU version is jumping over turnouts.

Regards
Marius
Marius in Africa

HO, ECoS 2, Märklin C-track, any country, any design, any era & any brand which i like.
Offline RayF  
#48 Posted : 31 January 2019 17:11:25(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,331
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I was thinking how nice the loco looked in the video until it got to the turnouts...

That's a hell of a rough ride! No wonder the driver is putting out a smoke screen to hide his embarrassment! BigGrin
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#49 Posted : 31 January 2019 17:26:07(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 4,295
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I was thinking how nice the loco looked in the video until it got to the turnouts...

That's a hell of a rough ride! No wonder the driver is putting out a smoke screen to hide his embarrassment! BigGrin


The owner of the layout should be embarrassed to be showing a video of such bad track work. You can see the coaches rocking and rolling as they cross the points as well, not just the loco.

Offline Minok  
#50 Posted : 31 January 2019 17:45:36(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,926
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I was thinking how nice the loco looked in the video until it got to the turnouts...

That's a hell of a rough ride! No wonder the driver is putting out a smoke screen to hide his embarrassment! BigGrin


The owner of the layout should be embarrassed to be showing a video of such bad track work. You can see the coaches rocking and rolling as they cross the points as well, not just the loco.



And one would fix this how?
Isn’t it the track piece geometry and the gaps in it that are going to cause this as the loco crosses over at a slow speed, whereby one gets the maximum movement into any rail gaps?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
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