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Offline MSanches  
#1 Posted : 05 March 2014 09:34:03(UTC)
MSanches

Portugal   
Joined: 10/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Lisbon

Hi,

Anyone recommend a good book or e-site about the right way to do wiring and connections on a layout?
I'm a relatively expereinced modeler from Portugal, bu need to improve my skills.
Many thanks in advance.
Offline Irish Rail  
#2 Posted : 05 March 2014 11:45:00(UTC)
Irish Rail

Ireland   
Joined: 04/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: West Cork
I found this from another post here and it might be of use.

http://www.macbeth66.com...rklin_Wiring_Booklet.pdf

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Offline MSanches  
#3 Posted : 05 March 2014 13:49:04(UTC)
MSanches

Portugal   
Joined: 10/06/2011(UTC)
Posts: 41
Location: Lisbon
Hi,

Many thanks for yr info.
Actually, i'm working with CS2, and looking for something more updated.
Regards
Miguel
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Offline Irish Rail  
#4 Posted : 27 March 2014 16:37:47(UTC)
Irish Rail

Ireland   
Joined: 04/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: West Cork
I can see why, Miguel. Me too. The digital wiring process is not clear - there are lots of different elements but their functions are not stated. Is there a difference between signal and power? Are these provided separately? Or over the data bus? If there was a simple explanation of digital wiring, I would also appreciate it.
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Offline kbvrod  
#5 Posted : 27 March 2014 17:28:24(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Originally Posted by: Irish Rail Go to Quoted Post
I can see why, Miguel. Me too. The digital wiring process is not clear - there are lots of different elements but their functions are not stated. Is there a difference between signal and power? Are these provided separately? Or over the data bus? If there was a simple explanation of digital wiring, I would also appreciate it.


Boyo,you need to tell us what your planning to do.MS?CS? How many trains/signals/accessories?

Dr D

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Offline Irish Rail  
#6 Posted : 27 March 2014 18:50:41(UTC)
Irish Rail

Ireland   
Joined: 04/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: West Cork
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Irish Rail Go to Quoted Post
I can see why, Miguel. Me too. The digital wiring process is not clear - there are lots of different elements but their functions are not stated. Is there a difference between signal and power? Are these provided separately? Or over the data bus? If there was a simple explanation of digital wiring, I would also appreciate it.


Boyo,you need to tell us what your planning to do.MS?CS? How many trains/signals/accessories?

Dr D



I'm not ready for that level of detail, Dr D. But trying to understand the options is very confusing. I need to understand the electrical and logical basics of how it all works. I understand analogue, no problem. I understand digital data, busses, etc. What isn't clear to me in the Marklin Digital world is the bus design, wiring and connections; the supply of power to the circuit (locos, solenoids, accessories); and the function of the various "boxes" e.g. converter, power pack (why are there so many?); decoders (why are there so many?); the data structure of the bus and its wiring. Does that make sense?
I'm looking at p542 of the current full line Marklin catalogue. There is a 6017 bus, a Marklin bus, and an S 88 bus. There are power supplies, boosters, and transformers but no indication of how power is distributed.

I don't want or expect detailed answers here, but is there any technical documentation that helps explain all this?
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Offline Danlake  
#7 Posted : 27 March 2014 19:41:43(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,519
Hi!

The schematic drawing of the Marklin digital systems you are referering to shows all the possibilities. That does not mean that you will need a 6017 bus, but merely that you can use a 6017 unit as a separate booster (note how the tracks are divided into blocks on the drawing). The use of bus is probably a bit confusing it’s more just showing how the connections should be made.

I haven't found any good books in English but I believe something is available in German.

If you are very keen I found the best source of material to be the digital newsletter from the Marklin digital club. When you sign up you can buy copies of all the old newsletters as well. They actually do contain a lot of info and shows the development of the system and more importantly gives a hint of the design concept and how Marklin thinks you should be using the various components. https://www.marklin.com/club/

But else ask specific questions here.

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Webmaster  
#8 Posted : 27 March 2014 21:17:48(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,021
I would recommend (as usual) the Märklin 07421 Electric Manual "Controlling Switching Running" even if it's based on the earlier CS1 as the main digital controller.
Must be the most overlooked book ever by model railroaders, even if it is the best one around as I know of...

Shows both analog and Digital connection principles...

Could maybe still be found on Ebay or Amazon...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline kbvrod  
#9 Posted : 27 March 2014 21:40:47(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
I'm not ready for that level of detail, Dr D. But trying to understand the options is very confusing. I need to understand the electrical and logical basics of how it all works. I understand analogue, no problem. I understand digital data, busses, etc. What isn't clear to me in the Marklin Digital world is the bus design, wiring and connections; the supply of power to the circuit (locos, solenoids, accessories); and the function of the various "boxes" e.g. converter, power pack (why are there so many?); decoders (why are there so many?); the data structure of the bus and its wiring. Does that make sense?
I'm looking at p542 of the current full line Marklin catalogue. There is a 6017 bus, a Marklin bus, and an S 88 bus. There are power supplies, boosters, and transformers but no indication of how power is distributed.

I don't want or expect detailed answers here, but is there any technical documentation that helps explain all this?


Well,lad you had better start!LOL
If your layout is small,you can do such a certain way,if it large and your train control gets a wee bit more complicated,ya have to rethink it.Depend what ya want to do.You getting my drift boyo?Tongue
D
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Offline Irish Rail  
#10 Posted : 27 March 2014 22:43:12(UTC)
Irish Rail

Ireland   
Joined: 04/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: West Cork
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
I would recommend (as usual) the Märklin 07421 Electric Manual "Controlling Switching Running" even if it's based on the earlier CS1 as the main digital controller.
Must be the most overlooked book ever by model railroaders, even if it is the best one around as I know of...

Shows both analog and Digital connection principles...

Could maybe still be found on Ebay or Amazon...


Good news. 07421 is available from the Marklin online shop!! Thanks, guys. That looks like just what I need right now.

One question before I order it: is the current transformer (66470) a direct equivalent of the old blue transformers? Going to need another transformer anyway...
Thanks
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Offline Danlake  
#11 Posted : 28 March 2014 04:33:49(UTC)
Danlake

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,519
Originally Posted by: Irish Rail Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
I would recommend (as usual) the Märklin 07421 Electric Manual "Controlling Switching Running" even if it's based on the earlier CS1 as the main digital controller.
Must be the most overlooked book ever by model railroaders, even if it is the best one around as I know of...

Shows both analog and Digital connection principles...

Could maybe still be found on Ebay or Amazon...


Good news. 07421 is available from the Marklin online shop!! Thanks, guys. That looks like just what I need right now.

One question before I order it: is the current transformer (66470) a direct equivalent of the old blue transformers? Going to need another transformer anyway...
Thanks


Yes -that is the new type of 16VAC transformer. Please note that these types are not to power mobile stations/central stations etc. They need the special switch mode powerpacks.

Brgds - Lasse
Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.
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Offline Irish Rail  
#12 Posted : 31 March 2014 19:53:33(UTC)
Irish Rail

Ireland   
Joined: 04/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: West Cork
Thanks for the advice. 07421 Electrical Manual has been ordered, as well as a new transformer. Oh, and the Catenary Manual, too (there is a long-term development plan).
Hopefully, my next set of questions will be much better informed? :)
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Offline Irish Rail  
#13 Posted : 07 April 2014 22:36:15(UTC)
Irish Rail

Ireland   
Joined: 04/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: West Cork
07421 Electrical Manual - Controlling, Switching, Running has arrived. And it does the trick for me, mostly.

The book is a hardback in landscape layout with just over 100 pages, divided into five sections, copyright 2007. Production values are high, but the editing and translation could have been better. Sometimes the English is difficult to understand and some of the diagrams have not been translated from German.

Having bought this book to answer a number of questions, and having read through the book once, I can confirm that almost all my questions were answered. The book give all the basics of electrical operation in analogue mode, and, by going through the development of the Marklin digital products, it explains and positions all the various products, what they do and what they work with. Up to page 23, the discussion is of analogue operation, then Delta, 6021 (and all its related modules); why boosters are needed and what they do; Mobile station, connections and the reason for different power supplies; Central Station and its basic connections.
Section 3 deals with Solenoid accessories - analogue for all three track types; turnout decoders, k83 and k84 decoders; Signals (analogue and digital operation, their control boxes, etc.).
Section 4 deals with electrical accessories and the controllers for them - the difference between 72730 and 72740 and where to use each. Also special accessories - transfer table, turntable, grade crossing, rotary crane, mobile crane.
Section 5 is about automating a layout, the tools and how to use them. Reed switches, contact tracks, block operation, braking module, etc.

Every section has lots of big, clear wiring diagrams that really illustrate how to incorporate each element into the overall circuit and its control. With a little more attention to detail in the editing and translation, this would have been almost perfect. As it is, for a native English speaker, there are occasional phrases and sentences that are a little difficult to interpret, but still comprehensible. The diagrams are superb.
Overall, I would recommend this book for anyone who isn't entirely clear on how to wire an analogue or digital circuit. It will also help those starting with digital to determine which pieces they need and how they go together.

Thanks for the recommendation, Webmaster (should I bow, your lordship?) ;)
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Offline Webmaster  
#14 Posted : 08 April 2014 20:15:24(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,021
Of course you may bow if you wish to... LOL LOL LOL

This is by far the best "electrical wiring" book so far from M, and I hope there will be an updated one including CS2/MS2, new signals and such soon...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline Irish Rail  
#15 Posted : 09 April 2014 10:20:16(UTC)
Irish Rail

Ireland   
Joined: 04/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 123
Location: West Cork
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
Of course you may bow if you wish to... LOL LOL LOL

This is by far the best "electrical wiring" book so far from M, and I hope there will be an updated one including CS2/MS2, new signals and such soon...



*bowing deeply*


Note that it includes a section on the 76XXX signals for both analogue and digital connections.

The MS refers to 60652 and the CS to 60212
Offline Webmaster  
#16 Posted : 09 April 2014 21:37:55(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,021
Hey, sent a question to M about a possible update to the book - and got this answer...




Dear Mr. Palm,

thanks for your question.

In the near future we will have a new book which has also included CS2/MS2 and other newer Digital features too.

Sincerely yours,

your account manager
Markus Schurr

Gebr. Maerklin & Cie. GmbH
Customer Service
P.O. Box 960
73009 GOEPPINGEN
GERMANY
Phone: +49 7161 608 222
Fax: +49 7161 608 225
E-mail: Service@maerklin.de
Website: www.maerklin.com


Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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Offline BwanaJoe  
#17 Posted : 21 March 2015 18:40:53(UTC)
BwanaJoe

United States   
Joined: 10/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 36
Location: Central Florida
May I ask how this book compares to Model Railroad Electronics 2 - Digital Trains by Rutger Friberg?
Offline cookee_nz  
#18 Posted : 23 March 2015 06:15:50(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,509
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: BwanaJoe Go to Quoted Post
May I ask how this book compares to Model Railroad Electronics 2 - Digital Trains by Rutger Friberg?


Totally different aim. Rutgers books are for hobbyists wanting to add various features, gimmicks, control etc via electronic projects onto an already existing system. The Marklin book is about how the various Marklin off-the-shelf items work together and possibilities for expansion. HTH

Steve
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Memeyer2020  
#19 Posted : 08 September 2020 06:49:37(UTC)
Memeyer2020

Costa Rica   
Joined: 19/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by: Irish Rail Go to Quoted Post
I found this from another post here and it might be of use.

http://www.macbeth66.com...rklin_Wiring_Booklet.pdf



THANKS A LOT FOR THIS CLASSIC MANUAL.
IT'S A HUGE HELP FOR BEGINNERS WITH LIMITED EXPERIENCE OR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT ELECTRICAL PRINCIPLES FOR LAYOUTS.

REGARDS,

DR. GUILLERMO MARTÍNEZ
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#20 Posted : 08 September 2020 11:42:14(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 17,410
Location: New Zealand
Can we please not type in full capitals, doing so in internet speak is equivalent to shouting at everyone.....

I cringe every time I see this happening....
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