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Offline abisel  
#1 Posted : 09 December 2012 00:45:37(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
I am new to the forum and hope to get some help as I refurbish my old Marklin trains from 1960

The engines are:
3004, 3025, 3027 and 3048.

I have ordered a bunch of replacement parts for these engines (brushes, rotors, tires, pick-up shoes) and am currently working the 3048.

One problem I have is one of the main drive wheels opposite the gear train (the ones with the tires) spins on the axle. How can I repair this? Should I take a sharp set-point and give the center of the axle a hit with a small hammer or is there another way? Super glue? Locktite? Use the set-point and strike the inside of the wheel to close up the axle hole? Please advise.

Also, the smoke stack is broken flush with the housing. Is there a replacement stack available? This is the fiber composite stack of which the smoke generators slips into and believe the part number is 21-563.

One more thing, can these engines be converted to digital with the newer 5-pole motors?

Thanks

Edited by moderator 13 November 2013 07:29:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

abisel attached the following image(s):
3048.jpg
Offline Mark5  
#2 Posted : 09 December 2012 07:28:37(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,204
Location: Montreal
Originally Posted by: abisel Go to Quoted Post
I am new to the forum and hope to get some help as I refurbish my old Marklin trains from 1960

The engines are:
3004, 3025, 3027 and 3048.

I have ordered a bunch of replacement parts for these engines (brushes, rotors, tires, pick-up shoes) and am currently working the 3048.

One problem I have is one of the main drive wheels opposite the gear train (the ones with the tires) spins on the axle. How can I repair this? Should I take a sharp set-point and give the center of the axle a hit with a small hammer or is there another way? Super glue? Locktite? Use the set-point and strike the inside of the wheel to close up the axle hole? Please advise.

Also, the smoke stack is broken flush with the housing. Is there a replacement stack available? This is the fiber composite stack of which the smoke generators slips into and believe the part number is 21-563.

One more thing, can these engines be converted to digital with the newer 5-pole motors?

Thanks


Welcome to the forum Abisel!

There are many more knowledgable people on the forum that can help you, but I am working on similar issues.

I tried super glue on a motor gear. Held for a about 3 minutes of running and then slipped again.
I have heard mention of Locktite on other posts, but have no knowledge of it myself.
My motor gear was replacable and in this case I bought the 5 pole motor kit for it.
So, yes, many older motors can be converted.

Do you have local Marklin dealer to help you with spare parts? Concerning smokestack, that is likewise an interesting question for me.
The smokestack on mine is intact, but worn and chipped. Would love to know if its replaceable.

Re: "Use the set-point and strike the inside of the wheel to close up the axle hole? Please advise."
Personally, I would not do this. A dealer might have the correct equipment to reset this.

Hopefully others will offer some more advice and hope you enjoy the forum, advice, photos, and all.

We like photos here, and sometimes kid each other in good fun.

Peace,
Mark







Interested in history of DB, DR and FS circa 1955 to 1965. Fan of signals, catenary, stations and yards.
Father of four girls running an exhibition layout, the Mädchenbahn--
https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=30519&b=1
Large version of my present avatar-- https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=29910&b=1
Source of previous avatar in "zoomify" detail-- http://bit.ly/1QqMgL0
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#3 Posted : 09 December 2012 07:39:30(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
regarding the wheel I would avoid hammering much because you'll end up deforming something and then the locomotive will start wobbling when it runs. In fact I am not sure if it is me but the axle attached to the wheel and gear doesn't look perfectly at 90 degrees already. If the wheel still turns when is in the proper position the end of the axle must be damaged. You could try super glue. You could also try adding some aluminium foil when you put the wheel on. If that doesn't work from time to time there is a seller listing on ebay that kind of second hand spares.

I don't believe you can ger replacement chimenney but you can easily make one with brass tubbing.

There is a thread about digitazing it just have a look in this forum, I saw it only a few days ago. It can be done with three poles, it seems you can also use five poles but you'll have to make minor modifications for the kit to fit.
Offline jvuye  
#4 Posted : 09 December 2012 07:52:06(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,834
Location: South Western France
Hello

Good idea, old Märklin locos are the best.ThumpUp

And you have a couple of treasures there: a 3025 is really a sought after collector item.Love

Having run a Märklin Service Station for a few years, I have seen dozens of these cases of "slipping drivers"RollEyes

The only durable way I know to fix this is to *lightly* knurl the axle, then re-press the drivers on the axle.
Knurling requires a lathe (+ knurling tool) and re-assembling requires a wheel press (+ appropriate pick-up inserts) , along with a quartering device to ensure the drivers cranks are exactly 90 deg. apart.

If you have these tools in your arsenal...I can give you the procedure...(although I'd suspect that if you do own these tools, and know how to use them you probably won't need any further instructionBigGrin )

As I no longer live in the US, it would be hard for me to help you here, however I do still have a colleague in the US that I am sure would be ready to help you.

As for the "fiber" smoke stackConfused , I have no idea of what you are referring to: this loco had a full metal body, and it looks as if the stack was filed off.Scared

Contact me with a PM if you are interested.Wink

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline steventrain  
#5 Posted : 09 December 2012 09:24:27(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,846
Hi abisel,

Welcome to the forum.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline abisel  
#6 Posted : 09 December 2012 17:50:22(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
Thanks to everyone for their replies.

*lightly* knurling the axle is probably the best solution. I do have accsss to the tools and will look into that solution.

The smoke generator on this loco slides into the stack and makes electrical connection with two contacts behind the light bulb. The outside body of the smoke generator is insulated from the body of the loco by the fiber composite smoke stack. Yes the stack was filed flush to the body some 10 years ago and forgotten about. Now it needs attention.

After some serious cleaning, closer examination of the gear train shows some wear. I could use a complete set of gears. This loco was run hard back in the day and all the teeth of each gear are worn and do not mesh very well. Backlash is excessive.

Then there are the brass/bronze bushings for the axles of the wheels. These axles have a lot of lateral play. Has anybody found a solution to replace these bushings? Maybe the miniature brass tubing from the model shops would work. Or the miniature bushings found in precision instruments. ID needs to be 2.5mm, OD no less than 3.5mm and a length of 11.5mm.

Standby as I pursue options.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by abisel
Offline jvuye  
#7 Posted : 10 December 2012 16:08:04(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,834
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: abisel Go to Quoted Post
Thanks to everyone for their replies.

*lightly* knurling the axle is probably the best solution. I do have accsss to the tools and will look into that solution.

The smoke generator on this loco slides into the stack and makes electrical connection with two contacts behind the light bulb. The outside body of the smoke generator is insulated from the body of the loco by the fiber composite smoke stack. Yes the stack was filed flush to the body some 10 years ago and forgotten about. Now it needs attention.

After some serious cleaning, closer examination of the gear train shows some wear. I could use a complete set of gears. This loco was run hard back in the day and all the teeth of each gear are worn and do not mesh very well. Backlash is excessive.

Then there are the brass/bronze bushings for the axles of the wheels. These axles have a lot of lateral play. Has anybody found a solution to replace these bushings? Maybe the miniature brass tubing from the model shops would work. Or the miniature bushings found in precision instruments. ID needs to be 2.5mm, OD no less than 3.5mm and a length of 11.5mm.

Standby as I pursue options.


Same answer as above....this is a standard rebuild job.
Used to be easy as Märklin was still selling parts, today no longer.
I manufacture it all myself, gears, bushings and all...
Again, if you don't feel able to do all this , my friend in the US would probably be able to help you.
If any specific gears are missing, he knows I can manufacture them.

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline abisel  
#8 Posted : 10 December 2012 16:43:38(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
Thanks again for replies. Jacques, I will look into repair parts per your PM.

A couple more tear-down pictures:
abisel attached the following image(s):
DSC_0107.JPG
DSC_0110.JPG
DSC_0119.JPG
Offline jvuye  
#9 Posted : 10 December 2012 21:17:40(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,834
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: abisel Go to Quoted Post
Thanks again for replies. Jacques, I will look into repair parts per your PM.

A couple more tear-down pictures:


From the look of it, gears look ok to me, altough I can't see the one on the rotor, which is usually the one with the highest wear...
Replacement rotors are relatively easy to find, considering that quite a number of them have been recovered from 5 pole motor conversions.

Mitutoyo caliper, heh?
Looks like you know the good stuff!

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 11 December 2012 00:45:44(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,034
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Hi Abisel and welcome to the forum,

these locos have taken a lot and I've bought one and must have been through the mill.
unless the gears make the loco stop at any given point I wouldn't worry too much about the gears been worn but there is a limit and to what extend,
another fact I noticed again on your first photo, the middle axle wheel isn't worn at all and this is another example, whereas Märklin had raised the middle axle slightly and this is also apparent on Co-Co locos. good luck with your repair.

regards.,

John

Edited by user 11 December 2012 05:29:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#11 Posted : 11 December 2012 03:08:50(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post


Same answer as above....this is a standard rebuild job.
Used to be easy as Märklin was still selling parts, today no longer.
I manufacture it all myself, gears, bushings and all...
Again, if you don't feel able to do all this , my friend in the US would probably be able to help you.
If any specific gears are missing, he knows I can manufacture them.

Cheers


How do you manufacture the gears?
thank you?
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Offline jvuye  
#12 Posted : 11 December 2012 08:31:24(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,834
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Iamnotthecrazyone Go to Quoted Post

....
How do you manufacture the gears?
thank you?


Simple!
99% of the gears used in Märklin locos are "mod 0.4" (the metric equivalent to the diametral pitch standard)

All it takes is to invest in a set of 8 gear cutter wheels for the given module ( a US $ 500 ~ investment ) , used on a milling machine in conjunction with a divider/rotating table.
More than long explanation, here's a pic of the cutting of a angled pinion to mesh with the worm gear on a 3125 Red Arrow.
The second picture shows teh gear mounted on the axle, and you can see le light knurling I imprinted on it to ensure a lasting "grip".
(Same idea for re-assembling the wheels/drivers..Wink )
Straight gears are manufactured the same way, the axles are just then made perpendicular on the machine.
Not a fast process..but who's in a hurry?RollEyes
The tricky part is to assemble "compound" gears with two different sizes permanently pressed together, like those found on many locos.
Special care has to be taken to ensure minimal excentricity...so careful centering and and flawless indexing on the lathe and milling machine are critical. (excentricity <0.02 mm is required for small gears)
jvuye attached the following image(s):
lite-wormgear 01.jpg
lite-wormgear 03.jpg
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline Guus  
#13 Posted : 11 December 2012 09:05:53(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Thank you Jacques for posting answers in this very interesting topic.

Do you have any recommendation on how to replace a worn bushing? The bushing of the rear axle of my 3027 is completely worn.
It seems that it is not a good idea to press the old bushing out, is it? I remember reading somewhere that it is better practice to carefully drill it out.

Any advice is most welcome.
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline jvuye  
#14 Posted : 11 December 2012 10:10:02(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,834
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Guus Go to Quoted Post
Thank you Jacques for posting answers in this very interesting topic.

Do you have any recommendation on how to replace a worn bushing? The bushing of the rear axle of my 3027 is completely worn.
It seems that it is not a good idea to press the old bushing out, is it? I remember reading somewhere that it is better practice to carefully drill it out.

Any advice is most welcome.


Hi Guus!

Not hard to do, it is rather a matter of having the "tricks" to get the right results!

With bushings, it is really a matter of having the proper tools and make the right decision wether to "replace" or "refill".
In the case of a 3027 and other similar Märklin loks of these vintages , where *all* axles are driven through gears, the precision of the axles' spacing is a little less critical since there is a little bit of longitudinal "play" in the coupling rods.

But what is paramount is perfect parallelism (and after re-assembly, perfect quartering of the drivers...) !

So rework or replace is the good choice in this case IMHO.

In a 3027 case, I'd press the worn bushing out, and first try to knurl the outside surface of the older part.
This procedure will tend to press the material together, reducing slightly the inner diameter and when re-inserted (with a parallel press!!) you will probably have compendated for the wear-out "play".

That failing, it is rather simple to use the lathe to make a new bushing.

Turn the outside diameter to be approx 0.05 mm (1/20 th mm) larger than the hole in the chassis, but create a 0.5 mm chamfer on the edge to facilitate insertion in the chassis.

While still on the lathe, use a center drill to start the center hole, then drill it to 2.4 mm (or better to 2.45 mm if you have such drill)
Use lots of small strokes, clean off the chips on the drill after each stroke and use a lot of cutting oil to avoid overheating/breaking which always leads to an unusable part...BigGrin
"
Since the hole you drill is always a little larger than the nominal diameter of the drill itself (due to a inherent but light "off-center" of the tip...), you'll have a good chance that the final hole diam is going to be "right on"....(i.e 2.53 to 2.55 mm)
Insert in the chassis (need a parallel press here..) and verify that the axle enters and turns without excessive play...

If not, use a hand reamer to progressively increase the inside dimension.
Work progressively and equally on both ends, so you will minimize induced alignment errors.

Most important tool: patience!

Usually, working fast means failure. Bored BigGrin

Voilà..you're done!

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 5 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#15 Posted : 11 December 2012 12:36:35(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Iamnotthecrazyone Go to Quoted Post

....
How do you manufacture the gears?
thank you?


Simple!
99% of the gears used in Märklin locos are "mod 0.4" (the metric equivalent to the diametral pitch standard)

All it takes is to invest in a set of 8 gear cutter wheels for the given module ( a US $ 500 ~ investment ) , used on a milling machine in conjunction with a divider/rotating table.
More than long explanation, here's a pic of the cutting of a angled pinion to mesh with the worm gear on a 3125 Red Arrow.
The second picture shows teh gear mounted on the axle, and you can see le light knurling I imprinted on it to ensure a lasting "grip".
(Same idea for re-assembling the wheels/drivers..Wink )
Straight gears are manufactured the same way, the axles are just then made perpendicular on the machine.
Not a fast process..but who's in a hurry?RollEyes
The tricky part is to assemble "compound" gears with two different sizes permanently pressed together, like those found on many locos.
Special care has to be taken to ensure minimal excentricity...so careful centering and and flawless indexing on the lathe and milling machine are critical. (excentricity <0.02 mm is required for small gears)


You don't realize what you have started on this end. I always wanted a lathe but never thought about a milling machineDrool

I've used a lathe before although I am still pretty much ignorant about these kind of tools. I won't get into it right now but can you give me an idea if this kind of tool would be suitable or should I look for something bigger? http://www.ebay.com.au/i...&hash=item3f1fbaab8f


I can see some old industrial machines for reasonable money but space is also a concern and something small is preferable. I am not sure but the one on the link does not seem to have markings on the movable base knobs. I assume that's a must for precision. what else would be necessary to make things like gears?

I was looking on ebay for the gear cutters but I suppose there is some kind of adaptor/module you need to attach instead of the chuck?

Thank you very much.
Offline jvuye  
#16 Posted : 11 December 2012 13:25:02(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,834
Location: South Western France
Hi,
Combined machines like the one you show are in fact less flexible than separate ones
I discovered Sherline 12 years ago....( http://www.sherline.com/ ) and I have never looked back!
They have everything: the machines, the cutting tools, instructions books with all kinds of tips and tricks, accessories with detailed instructions and suggestions, and last but not least an impeccable customer service attitude.

Their website is an infinite resource to help solve problems and answer questions: take the time to browse and you'll go crazy!!BigGrin

Some clever accessories are very specific to Sherline, which make it an extremely versatile line of products.

When I left California for France I was a bit worried that it would make the relationship a little more difficult, but I was wrong!

They were especially helpful in the exercise of converting the equipment from the US system 60Hz/ 130 V to European 50Hz/ 240 V.

To me, they are the best I know for our kind of work.

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by jvuye
Offline biedmatt  
#17 Posted : 11 December 2012 14:52:07(UTC)
biedmatt

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,343
Location: Southwest Ohio
That is some impressive work Jacques!
Matt
Era 3
DB lokos, coaches and freight cars from across Europe
But I do have the obligatory (six) SBB Krocs
ECoS 50200, all FX and MFX decoders replaced with ESU V4s, operated in DCC-RailCom+ with ABC brake control.
With the exception of the passenger wagens with Marklin current conducting couplers, all close couplers have been replaced with Roco 40397.
Offline Guus  
#18 Posted : 11 December 2012 15:25:55(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Thank you very much Jacques for your extensive information on how to replace and remanufacture a worn bushing.

Although I'm not unfamiliar with machining, I think at this stage I'll try and get a replacement bushing at one of the restoration firms.

The website you recommended is a tremendously good source of information. I bookmarked it right away.


Kind regards,
Guus
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#19 Posted : 11 December 2012 21:51:16(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Hi,
Combined machines like the one you show are in fact less flexible than separate ones
I discovered Sherline 12 years ago....( http://www.sherline.com/ ) and I have never looked back!
They have everything: the machines, the cutting tools, instructions books with all kinds of tips and tricks, accessories with detailed instructions and suggestions, and last but not least an impeccable customer service attitude.

Their website is an infinite resource to help solve problems and answer questions: take the time to browse and you'll go crazy!!BigGrin

Some clever accessories are very specific to Sherline, which make it an extremely versatile line of products.

When I left California for France I was a bit worried that it would make the relationship a little more difficult, but I was wrong!

They were especially helpful in the exercise of converting the equipment from the US system 60Hz/ 130 V to European 50Hz/ 240 V.

To me, they are the best I know for our kind of work.

Cheers


Yes, I sort of imagined a combined machine wouldn't be as good, I was considering compromises. I will keep sherline in mind in the next few months, the main problem for me with them is that shipping of a milling machin would be in the several hundreds mark or even more.Which one do you use more the milling or the lathe? I'll probably can buy only one to start with.
Thank you.
Offline abisel  
#20 Posted : 11 December 2012 23:35:30(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
Glad to see this thread getting so much attention.

I have sourced a precision bearings/bushing manuafacture that can make new bronze alloy bushings in 2.5mm ID, 3.5mm OD and 12mm OAL at a cost of $7.50 each. I specified these dimensions because of the measured dimensions of the axle (2.48mm), the OD of the existing bearing (3.48mm) and the OAL of the existing bearing (11.05mm). So how many should I order and pass on to fellow MRR's? I am also asking for a quote for oil impregnated bronze alloy bushing of the same size. Are there any other sizes to consider?

Edited by user 12 December 2012 23:52:28(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline jvuye  
#21 Posted : 12 December 2012 09:40:33(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,834
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: abisel Go to Quoted Post
Glad to see this thread getting so much attention.

I have sourced a precision bearings/bushing manuafacture that can make new bronze alloy bushings in 2.5mm ID, 3.5mm OD and 12mm OAL at a cost of $7.50 each. I specified these dimensions because of the measured dimensions of the axle (2.48mm), the OD of the existing bearing (3.51mm) and the OAL of the existing bearing (11.05mm). So how many should I order and pass on to fellow MRR's? I am also asking for a quote for oil impregnated bronze alloy bushing of the same size. Are there any other sizes to consider?


That is sort of a Märklin standard for locos of these times.
But honestly, you don't really have to change these very often...so I would may order a dozen, no more.
Should last you a lifetime.
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline jvuye  
#22 Posted : 12 December 2012 09:46:46(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,834
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Iamnotthecrazyone Go to Quoted Post
...
Yes, I sort of imagined a combined machine wouldn't be as good, I was considering compromises. I will keep sherline in mind in the next few months, the main problem for me with them is that shipping of a milling machin would be in the several hundreds mark or even more.Which one do you use more the milling or the lathe? I'll probably can buy only one to start with....
.


Well, your avatar doesn't tell us where you live/ to ship to.
But check the "Dealers" tab on the Sherline Home page, you'll be surprized how well they are represented, especially if you are in Australia (did I guess it right?)
Cheers

Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Tom Jessop  
#23 Posted : 12 December 2012 09:54:00(UTC)
Tom Jessop

Australia   
Joined: 14/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 831
Location: Newcastle NSW Australia
Pretty sure that Sherline has a distributor in Oz ,can remember seeing them in some of the better tool shops a few years ago, Paul's in Pitt st Sydney is one place that had them but not sure if they are still trading.

Tom in Oz
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#24 Posted : 12 December 2012 10:11:08(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Yes you guessed right. I will check it out more thorougly later but having someone importing them here doesn't always mean a good deal. I have also found some strange things about the links on dealers. I'll let you know what I do once I am ready to get into this in few months hopefully.

On the manufacturing point. Are you aware of the technology called 3D printing? Some of these printers are no good for quality but there are some that are and there are very interesting options for producing quality plastic parts. You can make things like a tender case, even mechanical parts. What I am yet to see is the durability of the material if put under stress like gears.
Offline abisel  
#25 Posted : 16 December 2012 22:12:23(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
So, axle bushings will be on order Monday the 17th.

I did find that the gear on the rotor is worn and the first cog gear is worn as well. I do have a new rotor purchased and en-route, but now need the first cog and axle. Those too are on order and hopefully available. Then the fun of reassembly begins.

Edited by user 07 January 2013 01:06:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline abisel  
#26 Posted : 18 January 2013 21:22:43(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
It has been a little while but there has been some progress on the rebuild.

Here is the stripped frame that has been glass beaded, the old bushings, and the new bushings.
3048-2.jpg

Here is a close up of the new bushings with knurling.
3048-3.jpg

Next I will be installing the bushing to the correct depth. On the left side, they stick out 1mm and 0.5mm on the right side. I will be using red Loctite to secure them. Then I'll paint the frame.

Edited by user 30 November 2017 03:30:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline franciscohg  
#27 Posted : 18 January 2013 21:41:39(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,204
Location: Patagonia
guau! it certainly looks great!!!!!
great job!
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#28 Posted : 19 January 2013 10:29:26(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
It's looking like a great rebuild! So, the bushings aren't holding tight on their own?
Offline abisel  
#29 Posted : 19 January 2013 13:18:58(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
The bushings will hold tight on their own. They measure 0.03mm larger than the hole. The knurling and red locktite is just added insurance.
Offline jvuye  
#30 Posted : 19 January 2013 14:13:48(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,834
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: abisel Go to Quoted Post
The bushings will hold tight on their own. They measure 0.03mm larger than the hole. The knurling and red locktite is just added insurance.


Knurling is great...but it should be straight if you want to facilitate insertion of teh wheel or bushing.
No?
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline abisel  
#31 Posted : 19 January 2013 14:55:21(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
Yes on straightness. This knurling was done with a course round file by rolling the bushing on a hard surface with the file. Just enough to increase the OD from 3.5mm to 3.51mm. It may not look all that pretty, but it did work.

I did a test fit of the bushings (partial insertion since they do have an interference fit) and installed the idler gears and drive wheels with axles. Everything lines up with no binding and turn freely.

Once the bushings are fully inserted, the inside diameter will be smaller and I will then ream the ID to 2.5mm.

So far so good.
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Offline Brakepad  
#32 Posted : 19 January 2013 20:55:51(UTC)
Brakepad

France, Metropolitan   
Joined: 25/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 633
Location: Montlouis sur Loire, France
Extremely nice and informative topic!

Thank you very much to all, specially to Jacques.

Regarding the chimney inserts:

https://www.marklin-user...imney-manufacturing.aspx
check out http://maerklin-back-on-track.blogspot.com if you like to see how old Märklin locos are brought back into life! (in spanish by the moment)
Offline abisel  
#33 Posted : 20 January 2013 15:34:42(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
Bushings are installed.
I had a little trouble with the aft most bushing and had to replace it with another.
On the first attempt, it would not seat to the desired depth without deformation. On the second attempt, no problems.

3048-5.jpg

Edited by user 30 November 2017 03:40:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline jvuye  
#34 Posted : 20 January 2013 16:36:27(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,834
Location: South Western France
Good job!
Looks very professional.ThumpUp
Having one of them going "sideways" is not rare (I have had it many times...Crying ) but I guess it is just part of the job.
But knowing how to recover creates confidence that you can succeed in 100% of the cases.
You are clearly on the right track (pun intended!)BigGrin

Next challenge is quartering, so I suggest you do not assemble the motor etc. before you are sure the drivers, side rods and driving rods are all turning smoothly and not bending.

Another "trick from the bag": when you test it, drive the mechanism with your finger using the wheel on the geared side of the last axle (the one closest to the motor), both in forward and reverse motion.

This way you minimize the risk of slipping the wheel but also maximizes the "slack" in both direction, which will convince you that teh whole thing is now going to perform "silky smooth".

You do have a little leeway since all the driving axles are geared and the side rods have wider holer than the crankpins.

Looking forward to the next "épisode".Cool Cool

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline abisel  
#35 Posted : 20 January 2013 19:14:12(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
Thanks Jacques for your encouragement.

Next "episode" was paint.

Here is the first coat of Rust-Oleum Semi-Gloss Black which in my opinion matches the original black. At least I could not see any difference.
You can really see where the factory ground the casting a little along the bottom edge.

Of course if I don't like the final finish once I get the second coat applied, I can always strip it off and start over.

3048-7.jpg

Edited by user 30 November 2017 04:19:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline abisel  
#36 Posted : 08 February 2013 15:18:09(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
An update:

Like I said before, if I didn't like the paint finish I would strip it off. Well, that is exactly what happened.

The RustOleum rattle-can paint just isn't durable. So what would be a durable scratch resistant finish for Marklin locomotives?

Then I got to thinking about DuraCoat firearm finishes and will be looking into that product. They have a ton of colors (that can be mixed) and the paint is a 2-part product. Pigment and hardner which is designed for air brush application. Even though DuraCoat is designed for firearm re-finishing, it can be used on anything.

This link has pictures of the so called assault weapon so be advised.
http://www.houtsenterprises.net/dur_starter.html

I have asked for color samples and will see what they have in matte or semi-gloss black, and the same for the fire red used on wheels, chassis, etc.
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Offline Mark5  
#37 Posted : 09 February 2013 00:45:32(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,204
Location: Montreal
Originally Posted by: abisel Go to Quoted Post

Then I got to thinking about DuraCoat firearm finishes and will be looking into that product. They have a ton of colors (that can be mixed) and the paint is a 2-part product. Pigment and hardner which is designed for air brush application. Even though DuraCoat is designed for firearm re-finishing, it can be used on anything.

This link has pictures of the so called assault weapon so be advised.
http://www.houtsenterprises.net/dur_starter.html

I have asked for color samples and will see what they have in matte or semi-gloss black, and the same for the fire red used on wheels, chassis, etc.


Great progress!
I look forward to seeing your results with the DuraCoat!

Train as Gun... its not too far.

- Mark
Interested in history of DB, DR and FS circa 1955 to 1965. Fan of signals, catenary, stations and yards.
Father of four girls running an exhibition layout, the Mädchenbahn--
https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=30519&b=1
Large version of my present avatar-- https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=29910&b=1
Source of previous avatar in "zoomify" detail-- http://bit.ly/1QqMgL0
Offline steventrain  
#38 Posted : 09 February 2013 20:20:48(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,846
Excellent work, Keep posted!
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline kariosls37  
#39 Posted : 09 February 2013 20:57:43(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
The other type of paint I would consider is proper automotive paint. Considering how much abuse cars get, it should be strong enough to withstand a lot of wear. Also don't forget to use a decent primer, I tend to use etch primer on all the metal bits and it works great.

Cheers,
Rick
Offline Webmaster  
#40 Posted : 09 February 2013 21:49:25(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 10,997
I can only say - very educational topic, thanks to everyone participating and giving valuable advice! ThumpUp
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline Iamnotthecrazyone  
#41 Posted : 09 February 2013 22:09:22(UTC)
Iamnotthecrazyone

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,041
Originally Posted by: kariosls37 Go to Quoted Post
The other type of paint I would consider is proper automotive paint. Considering how much abuse cars get, it should be strong enough to withstand a lot of wear. Also don't forget to use a decent primer, I tend to use etch primer on all the metal bits and it works great.

Cheers,
Rick


Automotive paint is excellent for many reasons but should be used very carefuly, I find it that if you use spray cans tends to make details dissapear, it might be different if are able to dilute it and use a compresor with your own spraygun but I have not tested it that way.
Offline jvuye  
#42 Posted : 10 February 2013 00:05:24(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,834
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: kariosls37 Go to Quoted Post
The other type of paint I would consider is proper automotive paint. Considering how much abuse cars get, it should be strong enough to withstand a lot of wear. Also don't forget to use a decent primer, I tend to use etch primer on all the metal bits and it works great.

Cheers,
Rick
Absolutely!
A good etch/primer is prim-ordial!BigGrin
Good job.
Looking forward to th "mechanical" results!
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline nevw  
#43 Posted : 10 February 2013 03:13:30(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,007
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
A great post, very enjoyable and instructional. Many lessons learnt.

NN (Still looking at the Grass on the green side and looking down.)
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Mark5  
#44 Posted : 11 February 2013 06:54:26(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,204
Location: Montreal
Originally Posted by: Iamnotthecrazyone Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kariosls37 Go to Quoted Post
The other type of paint I would consider is proper automotive paint. Considering how much abuse cars get, it should be strong enough to withstand a lot of wear. Also don't forget to use a decent primer, I tend to use etch primer on all the metal bits and it works great.

Cheers,
Rick


Automotive paint is excellent for many reasons but should be used very carefuly, I find it that if you use spray cans tends to make details disappear, it might be different if are able to dilute it and use a compresor with your own spraygun but I have not tested it that way.


@"Iamnot..."
You are right about detail and excess paint.
However, detail is not really a preoccupation on the underbody/chassis.

That said, not doubt an airbrush lays paint down much more thinly.
(I am still thinking of investing in an airbrush set when time and time gets there.)

@Rick, would love to hear more about how you apply primer on your parts.
Another post/thread perhaps.

@abisel
I am still curious how you plan to fix/recreate the chimney
- Mark
Interested in history of DB, DR and FS circa 1955 to 1965. Fan of signals, catenary, stations and yards.
Father of four girls running an exhibition layout, the Mädchenbahn--
https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=30519&b=1
Large version of my present avatar-- https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=29910&b=1
Source of previous avatar in "zoomify" detail-- http://bit.ly/1QqMgL0
Offline Roberto Romano  
#45 Posted : 12 February 2013 19:37:35(UTC)
Roberto Romano


Joined: 02/02/2007(UTC)
Posts: 101
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
I have a simple solution to replace the chimney in your 3048. I had exactly the same problem with a 3048 that I got from
ebay without the stack.

I used the plastic holder of a burned bulb from those 100 miniature cheap Christmas lights series. The back of the plastic holder
has a conical shape that adjusts nicely in the hole of the 3048 stack, the front of the plastic piece has a shoulder that accurately
resembles the round border of the chimney of a steam engine.

I super-glued the stack to hole in the 3048 body and afterwards I black painted the stack with black testors paint. It looks very authentic,
although it is a bit different from the original Marklin stack.

The plastic insert of the bulbs varies from brand to brand, some have slots below the rim, some are solid without slots. I used the solid ones.

The picture below illustrates the plastic parts from the christmas light bulb inserts and the finished chimney stack installed in the 3048.



UserPostedImage

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Regards, Roberto
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Offline Webmaster  
#46 Posted : 12 February 2013 19:43:23(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 10,997
We certainly learn a lot in this topic!!! ThumpUp
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline abisel  
#47 Posted : 12 February 2013 22:29:04(UTC)
abisel

United States   
Joined: 07/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: St. Charles, Missouri
Does the smoke generator fit the Christmas light plastic stack? And work without melting the plastic stack?
Offline Roberto Romano  
#48 Posted : 12 February 2013 22:48:01(UTC)
Roberto Romano


Joined: 02/02/2007(UTC)
Posts: 101
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
I dont know how hot will the plastic get. I will suspect that the plastic might melt if it rises to high. It is a matter of a careful experiment. A metal tubing sleeve within the plastic insert might work. As you can see from the picture, the bottom of the plastic piece is closed, it needs to be cut. I did not cut it since I am not using a smoke generator. You may try to experiment first outside the engine by rigging some device to hold the plastic piece, the smoke generator and the wiring together to activate the smoke. Good luck!
Regards, Roberto
Offline Mark5  
#49 Posted : 13 February 2013 02:23:25(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,204
Location: Montreal
Originally Posted by: Roberto Romano Go to Quoted Post
I dont know how hot will the plastic get. I will suspect that the plastic might melt if it rises to high. It is a matter of a careful experiment. A metal tubing sleeve within the plastic insert might work. As you can see from the picture, the bottom of the plastic piece is closed, it needs to be cut. I did not cut it since I am not using a smoke generator. You may try to experiment first outside the engine by rigging some device to hold the plastic piece, the smoke generator and the wiring together to activate the smoke. Good luck!


Try the Seuthe smoke generator for plastic bodies.
http://www.gaugemaster.com/seuthe.html

- Mark

Interested in history of DB, DR and FS circa 1955 to 1965. Fan of signals, catenary, stations and yards.
Father of four girls running an exhibition layout, the Mädchenbahn--
https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=30519&b=1
Large version of my present avatar-- https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=29910&b=1
Source of previous avatar in "zoomify" detail-- http://bit.ly/1QqMgL0
Offline cookee_nz  
#50 Posted : 13 February 2013 08:19:31(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,421
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: abisel Go to Quoted Post
Glad to see this thread getting so much attention.

I have sourced a precision bearings/bushing manuafacture that can make new bronze alloy bushings in 2.5mm ID, 3.5mm OD and 12mm OAL at a cost of $7.50 each. I specified these dimensions because of the measured dimensions of the axle (2.48mm), the OD of the existing bearing (3.48mm) and the OAL of the existing bearing (11.05mm). So how many should I order and pass on to fellow MRR's? I am also asking for a quote for oil impregnated bronze alloy bushing of the same size. Are there any other sizes to consider?


I missed this thread first time round but I am interested in the discussion about replacing the wheel-axle bushings.

I had some worn ones in a 3001 chassis many years ago and ordered replacements via the agent - supplied as Marklin part number 20025.

I was surprised to find they are supplied solid. I asked the person who was then acting as service agent how he drilled them out but that was considered a trade-secret. He'd do it for me but not tell me how to do it. Okaaaaay, so much for give a man a fish.... (I didn't have the tools to do it anyway but still wanted to know the theory behind it)

Another engineering friend did it for me quick as a flash but I always wondered why Marklin supply them solid rather than drilled. Is it preferred to fit and then drill them? How do they do it in the factory? - (maybe I should email and ask) but I'm interested of course in the comments here - so why are they supplied solid ex-factory?

Good topic

Steve

Top image is of new bushing end-on, lower image after drilling (click to see them clearer (smaller)
cookee_nz attached the following image(s):
20025-new.jpg
20025(after drilling).jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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