Update - threw it out to the guys at the club tonight, the mystery is partially solved. Turns out it's "ISG". Which solves one question, but creates another.

Let's see if someone with an interest in M's older models (ie pre 1960) can suggest why the 'J' is relevant / central to my question?

Good try Jimmy but off the mark in this case. Sorry

This is probably not a purely railway-related problem, but has to do with (older) handwriting.

As correctly stated, ISG stands for Internationale Schlafwagen-Gesellschaft. When this name is printed, the abbreviation is clearly ISG. However, in traditional German handwriting, the "I" did not appear or look like an "I", but resembled a "J". Thus, it appeared as JSG. Many people who had an I at the beginning of their first name were also accustomed to spelling it with a J, for instance Jda instead of Ida, Jngrid instead of Ingrid, Jrene instead of Irene, etc.

I hope that I could add to the confusion.

Example even in current computer-print: https://toggenburg.swiss...e-b19f-df3c4aad5d62.html

The company was the Compagnie Internationale des Waggons-Lits, which was a Paris based operator of international night trains in cooperation with the then recently nationalized railway companies. Because the trains ran through multiple countries, this international venture was more effective than any effort by any single country's railroad could be. The company was known as CIWL in Belgium and France and as International Schlafwagen Gesellschaft in Germany, Austria and Switzerland.

Some larger countries also had domestic night train services. During WWI, the Germans organized their own services into the Middle Europe Sleeping and Dining Car Company (Mitropa), which served Germany and the Austrian Empire.
After WWII, Mitropa was split between East and West German operations and the West German operation went on to become the Deutsche Schlafwagen und Speisewagen Gesellschaft (D.S.G.).
The sleeping car portion of both CIWL and DSG ended in 1971 with the introduction of the Trans Euro Night (TEN) Pool. CIWL continued to exist as a luxury train/hotel service and DSG continued as the operator of dining coaches on German and some international connections. Switzerland had a similar dining coach service since the turn of the century, known as S.S.G. (Schweizerische Speisewagen Gesellschaft) which has been replaced over time at the SBB by Mitropa Schweiz, Passagio, Elvetino and other companies over time.

Regards

Mike C

So, per usual, I am dragging this up from the past for a small question:

Were "Speisewagen" also included in this "ISG/JSG" (i. e. International Schlafwagen und Speisewagen Gesellschaft (or a variation thereto, similar to DSG as noted above)) as CIWL also had Restaurant facilities, I presume? Or was it just assumed to be both "Schlaf- und Speise-"?

The catalogs of that time also referred to the wagons as 346/2 "J" and 346/3 "J" (the DSG red versions not having the "J" attached)

Just curious

Many Thanks in advance!

Thank you! Merci mon ami!

DESG was a division of CIWL contracted to operate dining cars in Germany specifically, from about 1910.

Up until the start of WW1, CIWL and many smaller companies operated both sleeper and dining cars services within various German states.

Mitropa was founded in 1916.

DESG was replaced by Mitropa in 1917.

CIWL resumed international services in German after 1920, which is when the war between Germany and England officially ended.

From my own perspective, I'm avoiding the I/J issue as it seems to be more a matter of translation.
I have been distracted by the idea that CIWL and Mitropa (DESG) have been the only players in the German market.



I can't add anymore to what you can already see, other that this isn't CIWL/DESG/Mitropa and possibly, not even Germany...

I think my headache has come from trying work out where I can use DESG cars; and I think the answer is: 'on KPuGH expresses until 1917'.


(From CPARAMA)