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MaerklinLife		#51 Posted : 11 November 2018 10:07:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC) Posts: 490		This information is from the CS3 manual, where every person (with a few exceptions, obviously) would expect to find it...

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Goofy		#52 Posted : 11 November 2018 10:15:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,277		Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife This information is from the CS3 manual, where every person (with a few exceptions, obviously) would expect to find it... Yes and the information MUST also stand in the locomotive manual.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control


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H0		#53 Posted : 11 November 2018 10:53:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy Yes and the information MUST also stand in the locomotive manual. If the UI of the CS3 was intuitive, this information would not be needed in the loco manual. This information can easily become obsolete when they change the UI of the CS3 in the future. This information will confuse owners of a CS2 or a future CS4. We MUST let Märklin decide.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

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Purellum		#54 Posted : 11 November 2018 11:04:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,528 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: Goofy Yes and the information MUST also stand in the locomotive manual. I agree. We should demand that this information should also be in the C-track manual, the manual for the 60061 power supply and in every other manual ever made by Märklin. If enough of us writes letters to Märklin, they will have to recall all their manuals back to when DELTA was first introduced, and send us new manuals free of charge. Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Goofy		#55 Posted : 16 November 2018 13:59:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,277		Originally Posted by: Purellum Originally Posted by: Goofy Yes and the information MUST also stand in the locomotive manual. I agree. Per.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control


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H0		#56 Posted : 16 November 2018 14:15:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Goofy Yes and the information MUST also stand in the locomotive manual. I bought a new Märklin loco. The loco supports DCC, but the loco manual does not explain how to program the decoder with an Intellibox. Such vital information MUST be included in the loco manual.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

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Purellum		#57 Posted : 16 November 2018 14:55:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,528 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: Goofy Originally Posted by: Purellum Originally Posted by: Goofy Yes and the information MUST also stand in the locomotive manual. I agree. Per. You just don't get it Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Goofy		#58 Posted : 16 November 2018 17:20:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,277		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Goofy Yes and the information MUST also stand in the locomotive manual. I bought a new Märklin loco. The loco supports DCC, but the loco manual does not explain how to program the decoder with an Intellibox. Such vital information MUST be included in the loco manual. Exactly Tom! If you did bought ESU,Brawa or other manufacture you do have fully complete locomotive manual which stand how to support CV adresses and what there is further information. When Märklin did introduced DCC protocol in the new mfx/mfx+ decoder i thought it should also stand information about how to handle with the DCC CV adresses. In fact does other manufacture do have better service in the locomotive manual about CV info.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control


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David Dewar		#59 Posted : 16 November 2018 21:08:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,453 Location: Scotland		You are lucky you even get a manual. Most things I buy you need to go online and download one. You can of course do the same with some model rail companies if you lose the one supplied. I have to wonder why some on here buy Marklin as they don't appear to like it. If you prefer ESU and Brawa then why not just buy their stuff. Brawa locos are good but I don't see their manual being all that much better. Some of the fun with model rail is trying to figure out how it works or ask on this excellent forum and somebody will help.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.

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mbarreto		#60 Posted : 16 November 2018 22:50:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,334		Originally Posted by: David Dewar ... I have to wonder why some on here buy Marklin as they don't appear to like it. ... I think sometimes it is not "don't like it". It is more something close to frustration because of the brand one can't live without is not doing things the way one would prefer. At least for me it is a bit like that... Other brands like ESU, Brawa and Roco/Fleischmann are great too but I think I am addicted to Märklin...
		Best regards, Miguel Mostly Märklin H0.

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TEEWolf		#61 Posted : 17 November 2018 01:38:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Goofy Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Goofy Yes and the information MUST also stand in the locomotive manual. I bought a new Märklin loco. The loco supports DCC, but the loco manual does not explain how to program the decoder with an Intellibox. Such vital information MUST be included in the loco manual. Exactly Tom! If you did bought ESU,Brawa or other manufacture you do have fully complete locomotive manual which stand how to support CV adresses and what there is further information. When Märklin did introduced DCC protocol in the new mfx/mfx+ decoder i thought it should also stand information about how to handle with the DCC CV adresses. In fact does other manufacture do have better service in the locomotive manual about CV info. I do not understand your point. Märklin is doing what you are demanding. Just read the manual. For example the manual of the Ce 6/8 II Insider croc page 8 (in English) under Functions and Notes read here: https://static.maerklin....f908281ef71537192210.pdf I have one Liliput loco with an ESU Lokpilot V3.0 decoder inside. To the loco attached was the manual from ESU with the programming infos. Very similar to the infos Märklin is giving for its locos and decoders in its manuals. I see no difference.
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TEEWolf		#62 Posted : 17 November 2018 01:44:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: Goofy Yes and the information MUST also stand in the locomotive manual. I bought a new Märklin loco. The loco supports DCC, but the loco manual does not explain how to program the decoder with an Intellibox. Such vital information MUST be included in the loco manual. Good joke - did you get the manual with the vital instructions for your Ford car from Porsche?
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H0		#63 Posted : 17 November 2018 10:38:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW		The instructions for the Blaupunkt radio do not mention how to start the car engine or how to replace a flat tyre. They MUST include that in the radio instructions. Originally Posted by: Goofy Exactly Tom! If you did bought ESU,Brawa or other manufacture you do have fully complete locomotive manual which stand how to support CV adresses and what there is further information. Nope, ESU or Brawa aren't any better. Their manuals do not describe how to operate the Intellibox either, so I still have to refer to the Intellibox manual. So illogical. Märklin, ESU, and Brawa MUST know that I have an Intellibox and they MUST include that information in their manuals! No loco manual tells me how to connect the Intellibox to the track. They MUST include that, too, otherwise the loco will not run. I want detailed step-by-step instructions on how to get a loco running in a single place, the loco manual. They MUST do that. I'll hold my breath until they do it!
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

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David Dewar		#64 Posted : 17 November 2018 11:34:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,453 Location: Scotland		I think Marklin should send a representative with all their locos to show the purchaser how to use it with all the different control systems. There would be no charge for this service and during the two year warranty the representative will call at the owners home to correct any faults or explain further how to use the loco. Until they decide to take up this idea I will just continue to speak to my pals on this forum.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.


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Purellum		#65 Posted : 17 November 2018 11:38:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,528 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Oscar Wilde once said something about wasted irony. Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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TEEWolf		#66 Posted : 17 November 2018 16:56:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: David Dewar I think Marklin should send a representative with all their locos to show the purchaser how to use it with all the different control systems. There would be no charge for this service and during the two year warranty the representative will call at the owners home to correct any faults or explain further how to use the loco. Until they decide to take up this idea I will just continue to speak to my pals on this forum. I see. And which Scotch are you using to pay them for? As a polite Scotsman, I guess you do not take it completly for free. Ah - what is your preferd Scotch brand? At the time I still was drinking Whisky, I prefered the Macallan 12 or 18 years old, made in prior used sherry oak barrels. 30 years ago very hard to get it here in Germany. Nowadays it is much better. You can buy it via internet too. Even the Brexit does not change anything for it - ah perhaps a small price increase.
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David Dewar		#67 Posted : 17 November 2018 20:59:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,453 Location: Scotland		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Originally Posted by: David Dewar I think Marklin should send a representative with all their locos to show the purchaser how to use it with all the different control systems. There would be no charge for this service and during the two year warranty the representative will call at the owners home to correct any faults or explain further how to use the loco. Until they decide to take up this idea I will just continue to speak to my pals on this forum. I see. And which Scotch are you using to pay them for? As a polite Scotsman, I guess you do not take it completly for free. Ah - what is your preferd Scotch brand? At the time I still was drinking Whisky, I prefered the Macallan 12 or 18 years old, made in prior used sherry oak barrels. 30 years ago very hard to get it here in Germany. Nowadays it is much better. You can buy it via internet too. Even the Brexit does not change anything for it - ah perhaps a small price increase. I am not really a Whisky drinker and prefer wine. Many German white wines are excellent and as glass goes well when driving my trains. Of coursed the Marklin representative should be well treated but I think only Goofy will be wanting him. I am not happy with Brexit and wanted to remain in the EU as I expect Marklin will cost more and be held up at customs in Scotland. I am hopeful that we can agree a good deal for both sides as the UK is one of the top countries for German cars. David
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.

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Webmaster		#68 Posted : 17 November 2018 21:34:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,165		Originally Posted by: H0 No loco manual tells me how to connect the Intellibox to the track. They MUST include that, too, otherwise the loco will not run. I want detailed step-by-step instructions on how to get a loco running in a single place, the loco manual. They MUST do that. I'll hold my breath until they do it! On the other hand, I would not like to get a 1200-page "bible" with every loco I buy - So I think that "loco specific" and "controller specific" should be separated - and with a complete "controller bible" about how to operate each controller - which I actually think should be included with the controller... Of course new separate "bibles" regarding how to operate a digital system with a specific M controller variants are available as separate books through the years but I actually do think they should be included with the controller - especially with the price of the modern controllers... No way a loco manual should have a complete instruction about the controller, it should just mention the features available and which controllers that do support it or not...
		Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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H0		#69 Posted : 17 November 2018 21:49:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Webmaster No way a loco manual should have a complete instruction about the controller, it should just mention the features available and which controllers that do support it or not... OK, I'm breathing again. Who will convince Anders?
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS

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Purellum		#70 Posted : 17 November 2018 22:23:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,528 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: H0 Who will convince Anders? Count me out, please Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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TEEWolf		#71 Posted : 18 November 2018 00:08:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Purellum Originally Posted by: H0 Who will convince Anders? Count me out, please Per. No chance Per. Oscar Wild will miss you.
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TEEWolf		#72 Posted : 18 November 2018 01:13:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: David Dewar I am not really a Whisky drinker and prefer wine. Many German white wines are excellent and as glass goes well when driving my trains. Oh thank you. I am living right in the middle of a German wine region. But meanwhile I mostly drink an unleaded wheat beer. Also it has very low calories. Quote: Of coursed the Marklin representative should be well treated but I think only Goofy will be wanting him. David, what do you think sending Goofy a bottle of Bourbon Whisky and label it with "Märklin representative"? Will this achieve anything at Goofy? Quote: I am not happy with Brexit and wanted to remain in the EU as I expect Marklin will cost more and be held up at customs in Scotland. I am hopeful that we can agree a good deal for both sides as the UK is one of the top countries for German cars. I see the Brexit very realxed by 2 major reasons. English is and will be the major language at the EU. This even the major country for English is leaving the EU - but it remains its influence. Nobody from the EU can act against a Great Britiain, if this country is in or out of the EU. Remember the 60ties and 70ties where the EWG did not want GB in the EWG/EG. Second GB ist getting back its complete state sovereignty. Sooner or later more and more of the rest EU-countries will realize what is going on in this EU and want their sovereignty back too. Since the EG started changing to the EU by the contract from Maastricht in 1992 the people realize increasingly what they do not want: leaving their nationality. Only a few politicians want a centralized Europe with 24 different languages and one goverment. Ridiculous and it never will work. Example is the not functioning Euro currency. I do not dare this hysterie of some journalists and politicans about the economic effect. The EG was and still the EU is "only" at first a big free trade area. We again create bilateral free trade agreements and we achieve the situation as we had in the EG but without loosing our roots as a nation. Sooner and later our grand-grand-children do a relaunch of the idea for a new united Europe the politicians of our generation have destroyed by their incompetence. Sorry for this long off topic, but the train Channel Tunnel between GB and Europe will not be closed by a Brexit. Europe remains open. Best regards Wolfgang
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xxup		#73 Posted : 18 November 2018 02:56:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,593 Location: Australia		As World of Operation is unique to Marklin and, in particular, CS2 and CS3 controllers, I don't think that it is unreasonable for the loco instructions to provide some detail on how to get this working on your CS2/CS3. I don't think that this is the same as expecting a complete manual for every controller provided with every loco..
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kiwiAlan		#74 Posted : 18 November 2018 08:28:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,472 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: xxup As World of Operation is unique to Marklin and, in particular, CS2 and CS3 controllers, I don't think that it is unreasonable for the loco instructions to provide some detail on how to get this working on your CS2/CS3. I don't think that this is the same as expecting a complete manual for every controller provided with every loco.. I have locos where there is a 'World of Operation' manual included with the loco, as a separate item to the normal loco manual. Every mfx+ loco comes with one of these.


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Thewolf		#75 Posted : 18 November 2018 12:33:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/09/2015(UTC) Posts: 2,078 Location: Cowansville, QC		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Originally Posted by: David Dewar I am not really a Whisky drinker and prefer wine. Many German white wines are excellent and as glass goes well when driving my trains. Oh thank you. I am living right in the middle of a German wine region. But meanwhile I mostly drink an unleaded wheat beer. Also it has very low calories. Quote: Of coursed the Marklin representative should be well treated but I think only Goofy will be wanting him. David, what do you think sending Goofy a bottle of Bourbon Whisky and label it with "Märklin representative"? Will this achieve anything at Goofy? Quote: I am not happy with Brexit and wanted to remain in the EU as I expect Marklin will cost more and be held up at customs in Scotland. I am hopeful that we can agree a good deal for both sides as the UK is one of the top countries for German cars. I see the Brexit very realxed by 2 major reasons. English is and will be the major language at the EU. This even the major country for English is leaving the EU - but it remains its influence. Nobody from the EU can act against a Great Britiain, if this country is in or out of the EU. Remember the 60ties and 70ties where the EWG did not want GB in the EWG/EG. Second GB ist getting back its complete state sovereignty. Sooner or later more and more of the rest EU-countries will realize what is going on in this EU and want their sovereignty back too. Since the EG started changing to the EU by the contract from Maastricht in 1992 the people realize increasingly what they do not want: leaving their nationality. Only a few politicians want a centralized Europe with 24 different languages and one goverment. Ridiculous and it never will work. Example is the not functioning Euro currency. I do not dare this hysterie of some journalists and politicans about the economic effect. The EG was and still the EU is "only" at first a big free trade area. We again create bilateral free trade agreements and we achieve the situation as we had in the EG but without loosing our roots as a nation. Sooner and later our grand-grand-children do a relaunch of the idea for a new united Europe the politicians of our generation have destroyed by their incompetence. Sorry for this long off topic, but the train Channel Tunnel between GB and Europe will not be closed by a Brexit. Europe remains open. Best regards Wolfgang Hi everyone I fully agree with Wolfgang and I will go even further: the EU is a utopia and we must face the facts: never will a Belgian deprive himself of his steak to give food to another European and vice versa. In 1992, during the agreement for the creation of Europe, I told my father: no question that I work to give food to others, we are already taxed enough in Belgium and it will be hell from 1993. I will leave Belgium for Canada. It took me four years of preparation. And everything that's been happening in my home country for 20 years makes me right. End of the parenthesis. And if what I say exceeds the values of the forum, delete my comment but I had to say it and it only concerns me Have a nice day Thewolf
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David Dewar		#76 Posted : 18 November 2018 13:21:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,453 Location: Scotland		Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Originally Posted by: xxup As World of Operation is unique to Marklin and, in particular, CS2 and CS3 controllers, I don't think that it is unreasonable for the loco instructions to provide some detail on how to get this working on your CS2/CS3. I don't think that this is the same as expecting a complete manual for every controller provided with every loco.. I have locos where there is a 'World of Operation' manual included with the loco, as a separate item to the normal loco manual. Every mfx+ loco comes with one of these. Yep. I also have a separate manual for World of Operation that came with a loco. I do think that maybe Locos are getting over complicated causing working problems and difficulty for some as to how to operate them. I note that the manual that comes with the 60061 power pack states it can only be used with Marklin products. Might confuse some into thinking you cant run Roco locos using it but I presume it means only connecting to a Marklin/Trix control system.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.


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Goofy		#77 Posted : 18 November 2018 15:38:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,277		At least the better service in the locomotives manual does make better understand how and what to do.
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TEEWolf		#78 Posted : 18 November 2018 23:13:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Goofy At least the better service in the locomotives manual does make better understand how and what to do. Perhaps you see here on Märklings homepage (even available in English) https://www.maerklin.de/...pare-parts/instructions/ Meanwhile I received my new CS 3 Workbook https://shop.vgbahn.info...html#produktbeschreibung Very detailed and informative, but it has 790 pages and they are only in German. Quite a lot, but for such a book it is allright, perhaps even necessary to explain everything. There it comes on a CD, it is not a big, heavy, thick and unhandy book. It is an extended and much more detailed book than the PDF-manual form Märklin for its CS 3 60216/60226. https://static.maerklin....065db123781498138103.pdf (39 pages in on out of 6 different languages) https://static.maerklin....3c218aff091494261442.pdf Also much more inside than in Märklins own book "Controlling Digitally with the Central Station 3" (03092 - 206 pages) https://www.maerklin.de/...s/details/article/03092/ https://www.maerklin.de/...digital/digitalbuch-cs3/ Of course I did not read these 790 pages yet. But I can imagine, this book is the manual you are looking for.
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Purellum		#79 Posted : 19 November 2018 10:41:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,528 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: TEEWolf But I can imagine, this book is the manual you are looking for. I know how this will end. Now we need a manual for the manual............ Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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TEEWolf		#80 Posted : 19 November 2018 16:38:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC) Posts: 2,465		Originally Posted by: Purellum Originally Posted by: TEEWolf But I can imagine, this book is the manual you are looking for. I know how this will end. Now we need a manual for the manual............ Per. Help me with an excellent bottle of Scotch, please.
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Goofy		#81 Posted : 19 November 2018 18:21:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,277		I post this picture again just in case you DO UNDERSTAND.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control


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Purellum		#82 Posted : 19 November 2018 20:58:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,528 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: Goofy I post this picture again just in case you DO UNDERSTAND. Is that picture from a manual manual, a semi-automatic manual or a full-automatic manual ?? Per.
		If you can dream it, you can do it! I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide. In case this is not legally possible: I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.


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David Dewar		#83 Posted : 19 November 2018 21:13:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,453 Location: Scotland		I don't like manuals with gear sticks I like fully automatics. This thread reminds me of some of the great threads of the past … all we need is for Nev to join in. lol
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.


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Purellum		#84 Posted : 19 November 2018 21:57:17(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,528 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Originally Posted by: David Dewar This thread reminds me of some of the great threads of the past ... all we need is for Nev to join in. YES It also reminds me of a TV-series with John Cleese and a Spanish waiter.............. Per.
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kiwiAlan		#85 Posted : 19 November 2018 23:16:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,472 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot		Originally Posted by: Purellum Originally Posted by: David Dewar This thread reminds me of some of the great threads of the past ... all we need is for Nev to join in. YES It also reminds me of a TV-series with John Cleese and a Spanish waiter.............. Per. Or maybe some of the training manuals he also made - Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) was the prevailing term there ...


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