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Offline Hics  
#1 Posted : 19 September 2018 13:24:33(UTC)
Hics

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: England, St Ives
Hello.
I wanted to upgrade my locos with capacitors to remove Alzhaimer's problem.
Soo I bought one with resistor and diode already prewired (1000uF 25V ). But after soldering it onto 60760 decoder loco is not working at all. I thought maybe I did it wrong way soo did the connections the opposite but it didn't help.
What is wrong? Is capacitor correct?
Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 19 September 2018 16:19:48(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
as far as I know you need to have special decoders, since the capacitor will provide DC power when the digital signal is removed, and many decoders go into a silly 'braking' mode when they receive DC power. Does the 60760 decoder provide special inputs for such a capacitor? Do you have the polarity correct?
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Hics  
#3 Posted : 19 September 2018 16:31:03(UTC)
Hics

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: England, St Ives
Quote:
as far as I know you need to have special decoders...

special decoders? as far as I know 60760 allows you to connect capacitor. I would like to insert pictures for you I just can't do it now because I'm on my mobile.
any more ideas guys?
Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 19 September 2018 17:50:38(UTC)
RayF

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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I see no reference in the 60760 manual about connecting capacitors. Where did you connect to?

A capacitor connected across the input to the decoder will just filter out the digital information.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Hics  
#5 Posted : 19 September 2018 18:04:37(UTC)
Hics

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: England, St Ives
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I see no reference in the 60760 manual about connecting capacitors. Where did you connect to?


eeeehm, have I gone mad?

https://www.marklin-user...2871-problems-with-60760

Offline DaleSchultz  
#6 Posted : 19 September 2018 20:19:02(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
so looks like the 60760 does have the special connection, so how about the polarity and type of capacitor?
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline Hics  
#7 Posted : 19 September 2018 21:22:17(UTC)
Hics

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: England, St Ives
Originally Posted by: DaleSchultz Go to Quoted Post
so how about the polarity and type of capacitor?

I already explained it in my first post. Please read more carefully.

Offline ktsolias  
#8 Posted : 19 September 2018 21:30:16(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
Here is an old article by Moritz-BR 365

60760 F1.docx (1,732kb) downloaded 158 time(s).

I have use this buffer with different capacitors depending the space in the loco without any problem

Costas

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Offline xxup  
#9 Posted : 19 September 2018 22:22:19(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,463
Location: Australia
Somewhere in that old post Intruder mentions that it did not work for him either. He produced a new diagram with different resistor and, possibly, capacitor values. Unfortunately, the site is no longer available. Sad
Adrian
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Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 20 September 2018 00:14:44(UTC)
RayF

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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
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Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Hics Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I see no reference in the 60760 manual about connecting capacitors. Where did you connect to?


eeeehm, have I gone mad?

https://www.marklin-user...2871-problems-with-60760



Sorry, Intruder's link doesn't work for me.

I'll take your word for it that those connections are available, but I don't know if you can actually get the capacitor to work reliably.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 20 September 2018 08:30:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,262
Location: DE-NW
Hi!

For "Anti-Alzheimer" you have to buffer the 5V DC of the decoder to keep the processor alive.

A larger capacitor can be used for the rectified track voltage to keep the motor and the processor alive. A capacitor for 25V is IMHO risky if you still want to use the loco for analogue operation.

Both capacitors can be used at the same time.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline ktsolias  
#12 Posted : 20 September 2018 08:53:00(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hics Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
I see no reference in the 60760 manual about connecting capacitors. Where did you connect to?


eeeehm, have I gone mad?

https://www.marklin-user...2871-problems-with-60760



Sorry, Intruder's link doesn't work for me.

I'll take your word for it that those connections are available, but I don't know if you can actually get the capacitor to work reliably.


Unfortunately the Intruder's site (Saebonet) is not working any more.

Hopefully I have copies of the pages of this magnificent work and I can provide them to any member who is interesting in something from there

Here is the Svens solution to the Alzheimer problem of the 60760

Marklin 3044.docx (2,144kb) downloaded 135 time(s).

This definitely working, but the solution with the diode is even better.

I give this page because I think that Sven all the time want more people to know his work and his achievements.

Costas
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Offline Hics  
#13 Posted : 21 September 2018 12:22:49(UTC)
Hics

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2018(UTC)
Posts: 162
Location: England, St Ives
Thank you ktsolias.
I'm gonna try it nearest weekend and I will let you know.
Offline PJMärklin  
#14 Posted : 21 September 2018 12:23:30(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,210
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Somewhere in that old post Intruder mentions that it did not work for him either. He produced a new diagram with different resistor and, possibly, capacitor values. Unfortunately, the site is no longer available. Sad


Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Sorry, Intruder's link doesn't work for me.
I'll take your word for it that those connections are available, but I don't know if you can actually get the capacitor to work reliably.


Hi Folks,

If you go to :

https://www.marklin-users.net/intruder/

Then click on the "Digital Conversions" area at top lefthand side,

Then click on "Märklin 3044 EA 800"

Within this topic you will find Saebonet's details of fitting the capacitor for "anti - Alzheimer's effect"

My thanks to Svein, may he rest in peace.

Regards,

Philip
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Offline Goofy  
#15 Posted : 21 September 2018 15:25:29(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,012
I don´t understand why Märklin still sell this decoder in the kit when there is some defaults?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline ktsolias  
#16 Posted : 21 September 2018 21:07:38(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I don´t understand why Märklin still sell this decoder in the kit when there is some defaults?


The 60760 kit which includes the 60941 motor and the fx decoder is not bad at all at about 30€. The 60941 motor alone costs about 25€...
So with 5 more euro you have a decoder too.

If we look at the decoder of course is not a high end one, but is a programmable MM2 decoder, with F0 for headlights plus F1 as logical function, and F3 as physical (amplified) function.

Some of them have the Alzheimer problem, a minority and from the first productions.

The need of a power pack is very well known for all the decoders, ESU has one, Märklin has announced one, and in many locomotives already Märklin installs power packs at the factory. (Is a small element wrapped in black plastic tube, connected to the decoder with an orange and a violet wire).

So I think that this set or a similar must stay on the market.

Is an excellent solution, to digitize old locos, (30xx, or 31xx) and working very well with the other motor kits 60943 and 60944.

The decoder can also be used as a function decoder to control lights etc.

I really like the set and I never buy 60941 alone, but the 60760 set.

Regards

Costas
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Offline dickinsonj  
#17 Posted : 22 September 2018 02:02:27(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,677
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
So I think that this set or a similar must stay on the market.

Is an excellent solution, to digitize old locos, (30xx, or 31xx) and working very well with the other motor kits 60943 and 60944.

The decoder can also be used as a function decoder to control lights etc.

I really like the set and I never buy 60941 alone, but the 60760 set.

Regards

Costas


Yes - that is exactly what I do as well Costas - so I am sure that we are right. Cool

Just the motor conversion alone is worth the cost of the kit and they throw in a decoder that you can use in a primitive loco or as a function decoder. Otherwise add whatever decoder best suits your needs and there are multiple good choices out there right now for not a lot of money. BigGrin
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline RayF  
#18 Posted : 22 September 2018 11:55:50(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I use the 60760 kit extensively to convert my Delta locos, especially those with DCM motors. As an upgrade to a Delta loco the difference in performance improves the loco immensely.

As mentioned by others, you can also use the decoder from the set with the SCFM and LFCM motor kits with good results.

I would like to add that clean tracks will do away with the need for a "stay-alive" capacitor to a certain extent.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#19 Posted : 22 September 2018 15:05:15(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,677
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post

I would like to add that clean tracks will do away with the need for a "stay-alive" capacitor to a certain extent.

That is an excellent point Ray and one which is too often overlooked.

Clean track and a proper power bus will eliminate many electrical problems with your trains. I have a couple of locos which are for some reason more sensitive to these issues than most of my other locos. When they tell me that I need to clean my track I know that other problems will follow unless I get busy soon!
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline TEEWolf  
#20 Posted : 22 September 2018 20:28:08(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I don´t understand why Märklin still sell this decoder in the kit when there is some defaults?


The 60760 kit which includes the 60941 motor and the fx decoder is not bad at all at about 30€. The 60941 motor alone costs about 25€...
So with 5 more euro you have a decoder too.

I really like the set and I never buy 60941 alone, but the 60760 set.

Regards

Costas


Hello Costas,

what a pitty. Märklin raised prices!

The Märklin homepage calls up now for the #60941 30 € and the #60760 43 € (40% more!).

Regards

TEEWolf
Offline Purellum  
#21 Posted : 22 September 2018 20:38:44(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,500
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
what a pitty. Märklin raised prices!

The Märklin homepage calls up now for the #60941 30 € and the #60760 43 € (40% more!).


That's Märklin's price; there's plenty of 60760 on Ebay for 29,90 Euro; Modellbau.fisher still have 288 sets:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/...03e3d:g:nD0AAOSwtfhYpaVa

Per.

Cool



If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline ktsolias  
#22 Posted : 23 September 2018 18:45:11(UTC)
ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 610
Location: Athens
Originally Posted by: TEEWolf Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I don´t understand why Märklin still sell this decoder in the kit when there is some defaults?


The 60760 kit which includes the 60941 motor and the fx decoder is not bad at all at about 30€. The 60941 motor alone costs about 25€...
So with 5 more euro you have a decoder too.

I really like the set and I never buy 60941 alone, but the 60760 set.

Regards

Costas


Hello Costas,

what a pitty. Märklin raised prices!

The Märklin homepage calls up now for the #60941 30 € and the #60760 43 € (40% more!).

Regards

TEEWolf


Hello Wolf

Have a look at the prices at LokMouseum

https://www.lokmuseum.de

From there I do most of my shopping

Costas
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Offline RayF  
#23 Posted : 23 September 2018 19:14:48(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
At Lokshop they cost me €29.08.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#24 Posted : 23 September 2018 23:10:58(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Somewhere in that old post Intruder mentions that it did not work for him either. He produced a new diagram with different resistor and, possibly, capacitor values. Unfortunately, the site is no longer available. Sad


You're talking about Svein's site? Juhan and I both have copies of Svein's site, let me know what to look for and I'll see if I can find it (presumably a diagram for connecting a capacitor).
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#25 Posted : 23 September 2018 23:21:03(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,663
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: PJMärklin Go to Quoted Post
https://www.marklin-users.net/intruder/


And there you go! BigGrin
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Offline xxup  
#26 Posted : 24 September 2018 00:38:57(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,463
Location: Australia
And I have added it to our site's Links & Downloads page as Svein's Märklin site.

For those of you, who may be unaware of the feature. It can be accessed by clicking on "Site Content" at the top of this page (just under the words "marklin-users.net community | Forum") and then clicking on "Links & Downloads". Svein's link is in the "Personal homepages" section - at the bottom of the page, because it is the newest one. Smile

I have also fixed the Images from Intruder's posts on this page (mentioned earlier in this post) -> https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/t12871-problems-with-60760
Adrian
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