 Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Hello Friends, After the purchase of this mysterious and intriguing model, I decided to restore its youth, as it was in 1959.  Thank you to marklincafe website for these 1958 catalog extracts:   |
|
 8 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
An interesting point: This model has reversing lights :  |
|
5 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
So, let's start. When I first put the lady on tracks, when feeding AC current, the loco was not moving. I heard buzzing noise, lights blinking, well something wrong... I thought it was a faulty reversing unit spring. So I removed the loco body and saw this supernatural thing, taking place instead of the reversing unit:  |
|
6 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
|
Originally Posted by: TrainIride  So,
let's start.
When I first put the lady on tracks, when feeding AC current, the loco was not moving.
I heard buzzing noise, lights blinking, well something wrong...
I thought it was a faulty reversing unit spring.
So I removed the loco body and saw this supernatural thing,
taking place instead of the reversing unit:
(snip repeated image) yep! 3 rail DC. Very popular in France  Edited by moderator 07 February 2017 02:25:11(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
6 users liked this useful post by jvuye
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
using a 9V DC battery between pickup shoe and wheels, in one direction, and then in the other, showed me this weird component was a kind of rectifier that was selecting one of the motor coils, depending on the current direction. The wheels were turning OK in both directions with the DC current. So let's remove this and see what's left in the loco :   |
|
5 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Originally Posted by: jvuye Originally Posted by: TrainIride So,
let's start.
When I first put the lady on tracks, when feeding AC current, the loco was not moving.
I heard buzzing noise, lights blinking, well something wrong...
I thought it was a faulty reversing unit spring.
So I removed the loco body and saw this supernatural thing,
taking place instead of the reversing unit:
(snip repeated image)
yep! 3 rail DC. Very popular in France Hi Jacques, Do you know what it is exactly ? a relay, a rectifier ? Edited by moderator 07 February 2017 02:26:02(UTC)
| Reason: Not specified |
|
1 user liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Give her back a heart: fahrtrichtungsschalter #20824 needed  Done !  |
|
5 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,875 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
|
all the numbers you see on the spare part list you must add a "0" at the end your spare part number than becomes 208240
John |
|
2 users liked this useful post by river6109
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Originally Posted by: river6109 all the numbers you see on the spare part list you must add a "0" at the end your spare part number than becomes 208240
John Thank you John for the information, now I have this table to fill ....  |
|
3 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
And now the thing that intrigued me a lot. 20824 or 208240 wiring is like this :  |
|
7 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
But it's written in then catalog that this model has reversing lights. And the reversing unit has only one switch  . So, how did Märklin engineers do to reverse lights and loco direction with only one switch ? After many enquiries on internet (and I would like to thank all the people who have posted these informations) I found the documentation. |
|
1 user liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
The solution is described in chapter 13.2 of the Märklin Service Manual Handbook:  |
|
6 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
which leads to this :  |
|
5 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
So, to summarize this, we use the opposite motor coil to feed current to the light bulbs. Regarding documentation, it can only be done with old motor coils, maybe because of a lower impedance. The current for the bulbs must be lower than the current for the motor. This way, the current fot the bulbs can be considered as a "leakage current" With more recent motors, the magnetic field mus be totally cancelled. So for the 3024 :  |
|
6 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Well, this problem solved, let's continue with the beginning ...   |
|
2 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
To remove the body
The loco has two sides Side 1 Side 2 They are different Side 1 is where the body is labelled "1" and where the chassis has the selector for catenary feeding  |
|
4 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Gently remove each bulb holder by turning the front screw. The screws from each sides have different part numbers :  Do not mix them ! On side 1, the body has a small center hole :  On side 2, the body has a wider center hole :  On side 2, the body fits in a chassis kind of nose:  So to remove the body, it is necessary to slide the body horizontally a bit to extract the nose: This one is a bit damaged ....  On side 1 chassis, there is no nose:  |
|
4 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
The two sides from the chassis :  |
|
4 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
|
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Originally Posted by: jvuye Originally Posted by: TrainIride So,
let's start.
When I first put the lady on tracks, when feeding AC current, the loco was not moving.
I heard buzzing noise, lights blinking, well something wrong...
I thought it was a faulty reversing unit spring.
So I removed the loco body and saw this supernatural thing,
taking place instead of the reversing unit:
...
yep! 3 rail DC. Very popular in France Hi Jacques, Do you know what it is exactly ? a relay, a rectifier ? A double diode (=rectifier) in fact. To make it compatible with 3 rail DC systems (e.g. JEP) |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
1 user liked this useful post by jvuye
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
|
Originally Posted by: TrainIride So, to summarize this, we use the opposite motor coil to feed current to the light bulbs. Regarding documentation, it can only be done with old motor coils, maybe because of a lower impedance. The current for the bulbs must be lower than the current for the motor. This way, the current fot the bulbs can be considered as a "leakage current" With more recent motors, the magnetic field mus be totally cancelled. So for the 3024 : In fact, it uses the dual wound coil as a "poor" (= inefficient) 1:1 transformer.  |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
4 users liked this useful post by jvuye
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Hi Jacques,
thank you for these informations !
Best regards
Joël
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Well, now the body : Inside, no contact plate for the catenary power !!! I did not find any information on this.  So If you have one ....  |
|
3 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
and now replacing wear parts... Well , everything ??  The loco has certainly run a lot (under DC current), considering all the brushes dust inside . I did not recognise between the two brushes, which was the copper mesh, and which was the graphite   |
|
6 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
then, after a little make-up :  |
|
5 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
By the way, let us talk about the brushes now. #60030 and now 600300 the question is : "is there a special place for the copper mesh ?"  The answer is "YES" found in the Service Manual:  There is a straight spring for the graphite one that press to the notch. There is a bent spring that needs to enter in the mesh center.   |
|
7 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Now replacing the front and back couplers. #201331 or now 2013310  the flat spring will press (enough ?) upon the front wheels to avoid derailment .  Due to the shape of these front gears, the wheels will follow the coupler direction, and vice versa   |
|
3 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
...And the new pickup-shoe the unavailable #7174 is replaced by a #212010 even if the pickup shoe previously mounted on the loco seemed inappropriate, the new one look a bit too long, (hoping this is the good part number, I had it in a box without reference) The old locomotive uses a very thin contact plate to collect the current from shoe.     |
|
5 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
|
You're heading in the right direction.... So far your "trip of discovery" is perfect. I suppose that when you cleaned the rotor you also cleaned the gear train that's behind it. You'll soon have earned your Certificate of Aptitude for Official Vintage Märklin Maintenance and Repair Engineer! |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
5 users liked this useful post by jvuye
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,436 Location: Switzerland
|
I agree with Jacques - although I don't have one of these models, this thread is better than any instruction manual. 
|
3 users liked this useful post by Unholz
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Originally Posted by: jvuye You're heading in the right direction.... So far your "trip of discovery" is perfect. I suppose that when you cleaned the rotor you also cleaned the gear train that's behind it. You'll soon have earned your Certificate of Aptitude for Official Vintage Märklin Maintenance and Repair Engineer! Hi Jacques, It is an honor for me to be selected for this C.A.O.V.M.M.R.E diploma !  Thank you very much ! Of course I cleaned the rotor gear, and the other ones around. Unfortunately, I did not take a picture of it. When I saw the 7 teeth gear condition, I told myself, "well, let's go to the dentist " . But it seems that in spite of its used state, everything is turning round... We will see, with the future tests on tracks. If not, it will be shown in the future "Troubleshooting" chapter. Best Regards Joël |
|
2 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Originally Posted by: Unholz I agree with Jacques - although I don't have one of these models, this thread is better than any instruction manual. Thank you so much ! I have spent time to gather these informations and to make a synthesis, so I wanted to share them on the Forum that gave me the Vintage Märklin Repair Fever  Don't hesitate to [THANK/LIKE] my posts Best Regards Joël |
|
2 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC) Posts: 2,883 Location: South Western France
|
Originally Posted by: TrainIride ..... ... When I saw the 7 teeth gear condition, I told myself, "well, let's go to the dentist " . But it seems that in spite of its used state, everything is turning round... We will see, with the future tests on tracks. If not, it will be shown in the future "Troubleshooting" chapter. Best Regards Joël Hi Joël If you need some of these old 3 pole rotors with large or small flat commutators, let me know. I have a pile of them here, recovered from 5-pole (hi-efficiency ) conversions. Just tell me the number of teeth on the gear. Cheers Jacques |
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success! |
3 users liked this useful post by jvuye
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Originally Posted by: jvuye ... Hi Joël If you need some of these old 3 pole rotors with large or small flat commutators, let me know. I have a pile of them here, recovered from 5-pole (hi-efficiency ) conversions. Just tell me the number of teeth on the gear. Cheers Jacques Thank you Jacques, Yes, I am interested. it is very nice. If the rotor is malfunctioning, I'll let you know. Best Regards Joël |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC) Posts: 194 Location: Orlando, FL
|
Originally Posted by: TrainIride Originally Posted by: jvuye You're heading in the right direction.... So far your "trip of discovery" is perfect. I suppose that when you cleaned the rotor you also cleaned the gear train that's behind it. You'll soon have earned your Certificate of Aptitude for Official Vintage Märklin Maintenance and Repair Engineer! Hi Jacques, It is an honor for me to be selected for this C.A.O.V.M.M.R.E diploma ! Thank you very much ! Of course I cleaned the rotor gear, and the other ones around. Unfortunately, I did not take a picture of it. When I saw the 7 teeth gear condition, I told myself, "well, let's go to the dentist " . But it seems that in spite of its used state, everything is turning round... We will see, with the future tests on tracks. If not, it will be shown in the future "Troubleshooting" chapter. Best Regards Joël Joël - I too lust after the C.A.O.V.M.M.R.E diploma, but first I'll have to stop skipping classes on this forum (such as the thread you started) and return to the workbench. Many thanks for documenting the process you went through - both informative and entertaining (since I like to see vintage toys live again too.) Kurt |
|
1 user liked this useful post by kamstutz
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Originally Posted by: kamstutz
Joël - I too lust after the C.A.O.V.M.M.R.E diploma, but first I'll have to stop skipping classes on this forum (such as the thread you started) and return to the workbench. Many thanks for documenting the process you went through - both informative and entertaining (since I like to see vintage toys live again too.)
Kurt
Hi Kurt. Thank you for being interested in my posts, For sure you will have your diploma soon . To like resuscitating vintage toys is the first requirement to enter this school. So you have already your first level Best Regards Joël |
|
1 user liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Page 47 of the 1959 catalog... ...where we can see Lady E18 ( but in blue dress #3023)  mn3023_overhead_1959.png (2,217kb) downloaded 98 time(s). |
|
3 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Well, I wanted to take pictures of the wiring inside, but I found that the pictures were not clear enough. So I decided to create drawings to explain the method. 1. At first, we need to solder a pair of wires on each poles of the reversing unit. It is easier to to this before installing it, and by this way, we do not have to touch the reversing unit too much.  |
|
4 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
2. we need to solder the black wire of the reversing unit on the catenary switch :  |
|
5 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
3. we need to connect the motor coils to the reversing unit. For each coil, a test must be done to see in which direction the wheels are turning :  |
|
6 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
4. the lights. Once we have located which coil is which direction, we can connect respectively the corresponding bulbs to the opposite coil And that's it !  |
|
8 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Now the wiring diagram is clearer, Let us have a look to the inside. Not a lot of wires, thanks to the common ground chassis  |
|
6 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Even if the reversing unit is "viewable", You can understand it is better to solder on it before installing :  See the two pair of wires upon the reversing unit poles:  |
|
7 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
The motor coils wires left after dismounting the rectifier were too short. I used heat shrink tube to insulate the connections with the reversing unit cables.   |
|
7 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
The wires for the light bulbs were soldered this way:   |
|
7 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Now the wiring is finished, just a look at some outside details The "Bicycle" logo on sides 1 and 2 :  "MARKLIN E18 35" on one side :  "3024E18 35" on the other side :  |
|
8 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
The Lady is now ready to run !!   |
|
8 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
A bit noisy, maybe because of the rotor gear teeth , And great both flashing lights when reversing due to this special wiring. Both coils are "opened" during this transition, so both coils are feeding current to the bulbs... And see how the loco appreciates wide radius C-track turnouts !! |
|
9 users liked this useful post by TrainIride
|
|
|
|
Joined: 01/03/2016(UTC) Posts: 275 Location: Colorado
|
Great video. Thanks for sharing the restoration from start to finish. Very helpful.
Robert
|
2 users liked this useful post by DB Fan
|
|
|
|
Joined: 23/10/2010(UTC) Posts: 2,061 Location: FRANCE
|
Originally Posted by: DB Fan Great video. Thanks for sharing the restoration from start to finish. Very helpful.
Robert
Thank you very much Robert ! Best Regards Joël |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,430 Location: Attiki Athens Greece
|
A seminar work,congratulations.
|
2 users liked this useful post by foumaro
|
|
|
|
Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.
