Decoder not responding - Uhlenbrock Decoder in Piko 52217 Share  Email this topic  LinkBack Topic URL  Retweet this Topic  Share Topic on Google+  Like this Topic  Share on Facebook  Digg this Topic  Reddit this Topic  Share on Tumblr Options  Watch this topic  Print this topic View » Normal Threaded

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nero328		#1 Posted : 21 August 2013 16:47:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 21		I recently purchased a PIKO Dieseltriebwagen Desiro (52217). It is AC, and came equipped with an Uhlenbrock decoder (76500) for normal and DCC operation. The engine works fine in analog mode; however, when I try to use it in digital mode with my CS1 reloaded (address 03 as indicated in the manual), nothing happens. Any suggestions on what I can try? I'm not familiar with Uhlenbrock, but I don't think they should be any different than other decoders (but maybe they are?). Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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H0		#2 Posted : 21 August 2013 16:53:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: nero328 It is AC, and came equipped with an Uhlenbrock decoder (76500) for normal and DCC operation. DCC operation is normal for non-Märklin trains. I operate all my DCC-enabled Uhlenbrock decoders in DCC mode with my CS1 reloaded and they work OK. 3 is the factory default address for both MM and DCC.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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franciscohg		#3 Posted : 21 August 2013 21:07:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,298 Location: Patagonia		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: nero328 It is AC, and came equipped with an Uhlenbrock decoder (76500) for normal and DCC operation. DCC operation is normal for non-Märklin trains. I operate all my DCC-enabled Uhlenbrock decoders in DCC mode with my CS1 reloaded and they work OK. 3 is the factory default address for both MM and DCC. But we are in Marklin-users forum...... Whe are normals!!!!!!!!
		German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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nero328		#4 Posted : 21 August 2013 22:43:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 21		Originally Posted by: franciscohg Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: nero328 It is AC, and came equipped with an Uhlenbrock decoder (76500) for normal and DCC operation. DCC operation is normal for non-Märklin trains. I operate all my DCC-enabled Uhlenbrock decoders in DCC mode with my CS1 reloaded and they work OK. 3 is the factory default address for both MM and DCC. But we are in Marklin-users forum...... Whe are normals!!!!!!!! Sorry guys - I meant to put the "normal" in quotes, as that is the way it is described on the PIKO product page.
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H0		#5 Posted : 21 August 2013 23:04:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW		So "normal" refers to analogue operation. Weird translation. I guess most users here are not running "normal", but "digital". German text goes: "Wechselstrom, Decoder für Analog- und Digitalbetrieb" English text goes: "AC, decoder-equipped for normal and DCC operation" Dutch text goes: "Wisselstroom, decoder voor analoog- en digitaalsysteem" "Normal" (i.e. analogue) operation works, now try DCC. Piko FAQ recommend setting CV29 Bit2=0 to avoid problems (but you should get it going anyway). Is there only one loco with address 3 in your CS1? At first I'd give that loco a unique address not equal 3.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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sjlauritsen		#6 Posted : 22 August 2013 10:31:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Originally Posted by: nero328 I recently purchased a PIKO Dieseltriebwagen Desiro (52217). It is AC, and came equipped with an Uhlenbrock decoder (76500) for normal and DCC operation. The engine works fine in analog mode; however, when I try to use it in digital mode with my CS1 reloaded (address 03 as indicated in the manual), nothing happens. Any suggestions on what I can try? I'm not familiar with Uhlenbrock, but I don't think they should be any different than other decoders (but maybe they are?). Any thoughts/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps the decoder has an address different from 03 (you never know if someone perhaps tested it before you). I would just program the decoder to a new address and go from there. If it still does not work, try resetting the decoder to factory settings. Program 8 into CV 8 and you are back to scratch (including the address which is now 03). The decoder very rarely malfunctions. I don't know if it is possible with CS1 reloaded to turn off the DCC signal, if so, make sure it is ON.
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1 user liked this useful post by sjlauritsen		nero328
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H0		#7 Posted : 22 August 2013 13:05:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen If it still does not work, try resetting the decoder to factory settings. Program 8 into CV 8 and you are back to scratch (including the address which is now 03). The documented way to reset an Uhlenbrock decoder is writing value 1 into CV 59. CV 8 was "invented" by ESU and became a de-facto standard, but will not work for older Uhlenbrock decoders. Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen I don't know if it is possible with CS1 reloaded to turn off the DCC signal, if so, make sure it is ON. Good point. All protocols can be turned on or off as needed.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
1 user liked this useful post by H0		xxup
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nero328		#8 Posted : 22 August 2013 16:55:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 21		Originally Posted by: H0 So "normal" refers to analogue operation. Weird translation. I guess most users here are not running "normal", but "digital". German text goes: "Wechselstrom, Decoder für Analog- und Digitalbetrieb" English text goes: "AC, decoder-equipped for normal and DCC operation" Dutch text goes: "Wisselstroom, decoder voor analoog- en digitaalsysteem" "Normal" (i.e. analogue) operation works, now try DCC. Piko FAQ recommend setting CV29 Bit2=0 to avoid problems (but you should get it going anyway). Is there only one loco with address 3 in your CS1? At first I'd give that loco a unique address not equal 3. This is the only loco with the 3 address; I've tried to give it a different address, but still no operation.
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nero328		#9 Posted : 22 August 2013 17:00:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 21		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen If it still does not work, try resetting the decoder to factory settings. Program 8 into CV 8 and you are back to scratch (including the address which is now 03). The documented way to reset an Uhlenbrock decoder is writing value 1 into CV 59. CV 8 was "invented" by ESU and became a de-facto standard, but will not work for older Uhlenbrock decoders. Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen I don't know if it is possible with CS1 reloaded to turn off the DCC signal, if so, make sure it is ON. Good point. All protocols can be turned on or off as needed. I did make sure that the DCC protocol is ON. I will try the steps to reset the decoder tonight (many thanks to you and sjlauritsen), and report back how it goes. Thanks again.
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nero328		#10 Posted : 23 August 2013 03:57:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 21		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen If it still does not work, try resetting the decoder to factory settings. Program 8 into CV 8 and you are back to scratch (including the address which is now 03). The documented way to reset an Uhlenbrock decoder is writing value 1 into CV 59. CV 8 was "invented" by ESU and became a de-facto standard, but will not work for older Uhlenbrock decoders. Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen I don't know if it is possible with CS1 reloaded to turn off the DCC signal, if so, make sure it is ON. Good point. All protocols can be turned on or off as needed. UPDATE: I tried to write value 1 into CV 59 but I get the message back "No loco on track." Bad decoder? Or am I still missing something? Thanks.
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sjlauritsen		#11 Posted : 23 August 2013 07:03:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Originally Posted by: H0 The documented way to reset an Uhlenbrock decoder is writing value 1 into CV 59. CV 8 was "invented" by ESU and became a de-facto standard, but will not work for older Uhlenbrock decoders. Thanks! I did not know that. I thought everybody used the CV 8 trick.
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sjlauritsen		#12 Posted : 23 August 2013 07:06:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Originally Posted by: nero328 UPDATE: I tried to write value 1 into CV 59 but I get the message back "No loco on track." Bad decoder? Or am I still missing something? Thanks. Well... it is possible. Have you tried other CV values? Can you e.g. read a CV value from somewhere? Try reading CV 7 and 8. According to the manual, it should read out: CV7: 3 CV8: 85 These two values are the software version and the manufacturer id.
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H0		#13 Posted : 23 August 2013 08:47:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: nero328 I tried to write value 1 into CV 59 but I get the message back "No loco on track." Bad decoder? Or am I still missing something? With DCC, the feedback from decoder to controller work by increasing power consumption - most decoders turn on the motor for a short period of time to acknowledge a programming instruction. "No loco on track" could mean there is no connection between decoder and motor - or power consumption of the motor too low to be detected. Or loco not on the programming track, but on the main track? To read CVs using DCC you need a programming track (without any turnout decoders or other devices connected to that track). Maybe the loco has one of the fantastic AnDi decoders (73500, not 76500): no DCC, only MM, no automatic system detection (must be configured for either analogue or digital operation). You wrote it's a 76500. How do you know? Did you ever look at the decoder? Can you post pictures of it?
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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nero328		#14 Posted : 24 August 2013 00:13:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 21		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: nero328 I tried to write value 1 into CV 59 but I get the message back "No loco on track." Bad decoder? Or am I still missing something? With DCC, the feedback from decoder to controller work by increasing power consumption - most decoders turn on the motor for a short period of time to acknowledge a programming instruction. "No loco on track" could mean there is no connection between decoder and motor - or power consumption of the motor too low to be detected. Or loco not on the programming track, but on the main track? To read CVs using DCC you need a programming track (without any turnout decoders or other devices connected to that track). Maybe the loco has one of the fantastic AnDi decoders (73500, not 76500): no DCC, only MM, no automatic system detection (must be configured for either analogue or digital operation). You wrote it's a 76500. How do you know? Did you ever look at the decoder? Can you post pictures of it? I'm fairly certain that I have the loco on the programming track. Also, the loco does work in analog mode. Would it work in analog if there were no connection between decoder and motor? The decoder number 76500 came from the manual that came with the loco. I'm attaching pictures but I did not see any other identifiers. I have a Bachmann decoder I was going to try in place of the Uhlenbrock - can I do so without causing problems? Thanks again to both of you for taking the time and effort to help me sort this out. nero328 attached the following image(s):
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H0		#15 Posted : 24 August 2013 09:03:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: nero328 I have a Bachmann decoder I was going to try in place of the Uhlenbrock - can I do so without causing problems? That's the idea of NEM sockets: swap decoders without hassle. You may have to adjust the load regulation parameters of the decoder for perfect running. Train should run with the default settings. The decoder probably is an Uhlenbrock 76500. The only mode that cannot be disabled is DCC programming (you can disable both MM operation and DCC operation - even both at the same time). That's the CS 1 reloaded DCC programming screen: Choose "Programming Track", write 1 to CV 59, ignore the error message, and then try if the loco responds to address 3. Or try the Bachmann.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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nero328		#16 Posted : 26 August 2013 17:16:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 21		Originally Posted by: H0 Originally Posted by: nero328 I have a Bachmann decoder I was going to try in place of the Uhlenbrock - can I do so without causing problems? That's the idea of NEM sockets: swap decoders without hassle. You may have to adjust the load regulation parameters of the decoder for perfect running. Train should run with the default settings. The decoder probably is an Uhlenbrock 76500. The only mode that cannot be disabled is DCC programming (you can disable both MM operation and DCC operation - even both at the same time). That's the CS 1 reloaded DCC programming screen: Choose "Programming Track", write 1 to CV 59, ignore the error message, and then try if the loco responds to address 3. Or try the Bachmann. Tom: I did try writing 1 to CV59, but the loco did not respond. I put in the Bachmann decoder, and the loco worked perfectly. That leads me to believe that there may be issues with the decoder. Disappointing, but at least I have the answer. Thanks for all your help - I do appreciate all the time and effort you took.
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mike c		#17 Posted : 26 August 2013 19:27:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,227 Location: Montreal, QC		I would first try to set CV01 as 03. This sets the lok address as 03. If after trying this, the decoder still does not operate, you should consider a full reset. Does the CS allow you to read the decoder (Manufacturer, Version/Details, etc, address?) Regards Mike C
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nero328		#18 Posted : 26 August 2013 20:37:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 24/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 21		Originally Posted by: mike c I would first try to set CV01 as 03. This sets the lok address as 03. If after trying this, the decoder still does not operate, you should consider a full reset. Does the CS allow you to read the decoder (Manufacturer, Version/Details, etc, address?) Regards Mike C Thanks Mike. I did try both of these (setting the CV 1 to 03, and then a reset - CV 59 to 1, as recommended). Neither worked. When trying to read the decoder, I get the message back "No loco on track."
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H0		#19 Posted : 26 August 2013 20:59:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,443 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: mike c I would first try to set CV01 as 03. This sets the lok address as 03. If CV 29 is set for long addresses, this will not change the loco address to 3. If DCC is disabled in an Uhlenbrock decoder, it will not respond to the DCC address anyway.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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eroncelli		#20 Posted : 27 August 2013 14:58:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 124 Location: Bergamo - italy		Just a try: most recent Uhlenbrock decoder can be reset to factory default by writing 8 in CV8 (older types required 1 in CV59).
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