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s_christos		#1 Posted : 23 August 2010 14:50:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 37 Location: Hutton, UK		Is this motor really a breakthrough? I do not see many locos equipped with this.
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H0		#2 Posted : 23 August 2010 17:25:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		s_christos wrote: Is this motor really a breakthrough? Which version? The original C-Sine introduced in 2000 was a good motor. Too expensive it seems. The Compact C-Sine (CCS) was buggier than Maine in June. My locos run OK after I sent them back for the upgrade. SDS is the current C-Sine. After the CCS desaster they needed a new name. Still more expensive than normal motors and analog model railroaders hate it. It seems the strategy is one decoder and one motor for all platforms. SDS is not wanted in the analog world, so many new items come without SDS. The 03.10 and the Big Boy show that non-C-Sine motors can be really good.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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s_christos		#3 Posted : 23 August 2010 17:37:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/06/2008(UTC) Posts: 37 Location: Hutton, UK		I only have one loco with C-Sine which I bought a week ago. The 39893 one. The description of the product reads "controlled Softdrive Sine high-efficiency propulsion, a compact design, maintenance-free motor" http://www.maerklin.com/...arch/product_search.html Is this the compact one? Do I need to perform any repair? For the time being it runs smoothly.
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RayF		#4 Posted : 23 August 2010 18:22:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,840 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		s_christos wrote: I only have one loco with C-Sine which I bought a week ago. The 39893 one. The description of the product reads "controlled Softdrive Sine high-efficiency propulsion, a compact design, maintenance-free motor" http://www.maerklin.com/...arch/product_search.html Is this the compact one? Do I need to perform any repair? For the time being it runs smoothly. This is the latest design and should run very well. No repairs should be needed.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Guus		#5 Posted : 23 August 2010 18:31:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		s_christos wrote: I only have one loco with C-Sine which I bought a week ago. The 39893 one. The description of the product reads "controlled Softdrive Sine high-efficiency propulsion, a compact design, maintenance-free motor" http://www.maerklin.com/...arch/product_search.html Is this the compact one? Do I need to perform any repair? For the time being it runs smoothly. Hi, your locomotive has the "new" SDS drive which shouldn't be affected by the sensitivity to "voltage drop" of the former small C-sine drives. There's a list of models that were/ are affected on the Stummi forum: http://stummi.foren-city...n-entruckelt-werden.html (scroll down a bit to view the list) As far as I understand this is an unofficial list but it should be fairly accurate. Hope this answers your question.
		Kind regards, Guus
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Hemmerich		#6 Posted : 23 August 2010 23:46:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		- Edited by user 19 November 2010 02:00:54(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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mvd71		#7 Posted : 24 August 2010 09:43:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Auckland,		I remember when the C-sine motor was first released. Everyone was very impressed with the performance. And as Lutz has pointed out, if you are enthusiastic enough you can retrofit it to other loco's. We very quickly understood that it was just a brushless AC motor and as such nothing new in terms of technology, just new to the model railway fraternity. I also have the new SDS motor, and again I'm pleased with how smooth and quiet it is. But I am disappointed with the act that you have to grease the worm gear every 20 hours of running, this halves the service interval for the loco and is contrary to the maintenance free philosophy of the Sine motor. Cheers.... Mike.
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Bigdaddynz		#8 Posted : 24 August 2010 10:36:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		mvd71 wrote: And as Lutz has pointed out, if you are enthusiastic enough you can retrofit it to other loco's. I believe the original C-Sine motor was designed to fit to the same motor mounts as the older DCM 5 pole motor. The reason the Compact C-Sine/SDS motor was introduced was that the original C-Sine motor was too expensive to produce.
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TimR		#9 Posted : 24 August 2010 11:24:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		s_christos wrote: Is this motor really a breakthrough? As Mike mentioned on the post above mine, despite the marketing talk, this is really a brushless AC motor made for MRR application, but otherwise had been used in other hobbies, such as R/C airplanes. Marklin was the first to bring it to MRR, though I would believe that they subcontracted the production to an outside company to Marklin specification, rather than developing an entire production line solely to produce it in-house. Many specialist makers, like Maxon, for example, as mentioned in a previous thread, have been producing their own version of brushless AC motors way before Marklin start to market C-Sine. s_christos wrote: I do not see many locos equipped with this. Almost every new tooling models introduced since 2005, excepting a few like the BR03.10, are usually designed with the new SDS/Compact Sinus motor in mind. For example; BR110/140/141, BR01, BR23, etc. Now for older tooling models - those models which are originally introduced into the market as DCM "classic" propulsion, some have been upgraded, most haven't. Some models that have been modified to accept the newer SDS are: BR152/189/182 (Taurus, EuroSprinters), V200, Ae8/14, and Ce6/8 III. Now during the large Sinus era, there are more models that have been (factory converted) with large Sinus motors - ICE-1, Re460, Ae6/6, BR01.10, BR144, Franco-Costi, etc... but since this motor was dropped by Marklin (around 2006) - ALL new releases of these models since then would revert back to their original DCM motors.
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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H0		#10 Posted : 24 August 2010 14:24:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Tim, BR 144 didn't come with large C-Sine, it came with compact C-Sine. BR 151 had the large C-Sine, so did BR 152 and 182 and V 200 and also Ce 6/8 III (so Märklin made two or even three different trucks/frames for these locomotives). Märklin made two different frames for the new BR 218 Diesel locos: one for SDS, one for normal motors. I think they did the same for BR 23. By using a normal and cheaper motor for all models, they need only one frame for both Märklin and Trix.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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sjlauritsen		#11 Posted : 24 August 2010 18:59:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark		Hemmerich wrote: The C-Sine motor is now succeeded by the SDS (Softdrive Sinus) in recent models; a more compact version. Performance is excellent; the almost only drawback is it's regulation at very low voltages (and thus not very suitable for pure DC operation). I have heard that Märklin will use standard motors (i.e. the motors in the Trix locomotives) in the future and move away from the SDS since they require a lot of extra circuits and stuff to work. I don't know if this is true, but perhaps anyone knows a little more about it and can either confirm or reject this rumour?
		Søren from Denmark Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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pa-pauls		#12 Posted : 24 August 2010 23:06:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,841 Location: Norway		Hi Søren, I can ask at the factory in september
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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H0		#13 Posted : 24 August 2010 23:44:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		sjlauritsen wrote: I don't know if this is true, but perhaps anyone knows a little more about it and can either confirm or reject this rumour? I don't have inside information. But just look through the 2010 new items brochure. New moulds (all without C-Sine): BR 89.3/wü. T3 DHG 500 BR 03.10 BR 491 BR 420/ET 20 TGV New releases without C-Sine that previously had C-Sine: BR E 50 BR 01.10 BR 103.1 BR 110.3 BR 140 BR 294 BR Ae 8/14 Some new models still come with C-Sine (BR 218, Rh. 1216, E 44). Maybe this is just an acceptance test. It will be interesting to see reviews of the new 110.3, 140, E 50, and Ae 8/14. It will be interesting to see the 2011 new items brochure.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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TimR		#14 Posted : 25 August 2010 01:36:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		H0 wrote: Tim, BR 144 didn't come with large C-Sine, it came with compact C-Sine. Thanks for the correction, Tom... I think I meant to write BR194 (39223). H0 wrote: BR 151 had the large C-Sine, so did BR 152 and 182 and V 200 and also Ce 6/8 III (so Märklin made two or even three different trucks/frames for these locomotives). Quite true.. Given Marklin's situation (they had plenty of reasonably good looking models originally made with DCM in mind); designing new trucks with some or little modification to the frame is cheaper as opposed to totally new construction with entirely new frame. This way plenty of models can get "Sinus-ed" without Marklin spending too much on development. I think this was the original intention of the large Sinus models, only that the cost of the motor become its achilles heel.
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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TimR		#15 Posted : 25 August 2010 01:44:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		H0 wrote: Maybe this is just an acceptance test. It will be interesting to see reviews of the new 110.3, 140, E 50, and Ae 8/14. It will be interesting to see the 2011 new items brochure. It will be interesting to compare those new models to the previous versions that already got SDS. My feeling is that there won't be much different in characteristics for all practical purposes, given that some models with high quality can motors (BR05 streamlined, BR03.10, and BR45) already have SDS-like quietness and smoothness. And it will be ironic if due to market sense (it's simply a cheaper solution), Marklin might kill SDS in favor of these motors.
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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Marty		#16 Posted : 25 August 2010 01:46:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/05/2008(UTC) Posts: 272 Location: USA		H0 wrote: Quote: SDS is the current C-Sine. After the CCS desaster they needed a new name. Still more expensive than normal motors and analog model railroaders hate it. It seems the strategy is one decoder and one motor for all platforms. SDS is not wanted in the analog world, so many new items come without SDS. Tom, Why is the SDS disliked in the analog world? I thought it performs equally well in both analog and digital environments...
		Marty
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H0		#17 Posted : 25 August 2010 02:10:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Marty wrote: Why is the SDS disliked in the analog world? Lutz (Hemmerich) answered that already partially. Trains start moving too late (require too much voltage) and stop too fast when power is cut off. Recent models come with flywheels; I think this improved operation a little bit. SDS is also disliked in the digital world: some chaps just won't buy it. Part of the problem: load regulation in the decoder is turned off. The digital decoder feeds analog speed information into a driver PCB that converts the signal back to digital and creates the load regulated output for the motor. Very complicated and not the best slow speed characteristics even when running digital. Old C-Sine used special decoders with a direct connection to the driver and had much better slow speed characteristics. It's a bit louder that the SDS.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Marty		#18 Posted : 25 August 2010 02:30:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/05/2008(UTC) Posts: 272 Location: USA		Thanks for the insight, Tom. Despite these drawbacks, I have no plans to sell my E40 (39140). Overall, it is a great model, and one of my favorites in my locomotive fleet.
		Marty
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applor		#19 Posted : 25 August 2010 04:40:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,654 Location: Brisbane, Queensland		Some of the original C-Sine models are real beauties. 39195 E91 is one of my favourites. Being an electric, you only really need a horn anyways.
		modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
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hxmiesa		#20 Posted : 25 August 2010 11:41:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,520 Location: Spain		TimR wrote: And it will be ironic if due to market sense (it's simply a cheaper solution), Marklin might kill SDS in favor of these motors. It´s not only simply a cheaper solution, it´s also a cheaper solution because it is simple! hehe... Regarding analogue driving characteristics; I only own one SDS-equipped loco (BR150). My main problem is with its inertia; It´s absolutly nil. Thats not good, as any loss of power gives a full stop instantly. Actually... My BR80 has the same problem; Any loco with wormdrive and insuficient flywheel would show the same problem. -So the mechanical problem is probably not with the SDS itself, but with it´s implementation. If Märklin wants to see how to get it right, they should look at the Roco swiss crocodile... Even if Märklin started producing SDS-locos with acceptable inertia, I would still try to avoid them because of the unserviceable motor and electronic parts... -But at least I would be able to use the new locos from M. again! ;-)
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Hemmerich		#21 Posted : 25 August 2010 17:45:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		- Edited by user 19 November 2010 02:01:27(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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jeehring		#22 Posted : 31 August 2010 23:02:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		H0 wrote: Marty wrote: Why is the SDS disliked in the analog world? Lutz (Hemmerich) answered that already partially. ....(...).....It's a bit louder that the SDS. Several untruths are developed in this thread.... No, the large C-Sine isn't louder/noisy than SDS ..... Large C sine was designed as a successor of DCM motor for direct straight transmission between the motor and wheels (with straight cogwheels / gearwheels). It is this type of transmission which is sometimes noisy or louder...Not the motor itself. (often more noisy than other type of transmission with centrally positionned motor + 2 transmission shafts and worms...) My opinion about large C-sine and SDS motors : ask any electric motors manufacturers in the world , they 'll explain how better are those motors comparing with traditionnal motors with commutator + brushes....(they are also more expensive for the moment, which is the main reason why other train-manufacturers didn't offer it,....helped by narrow-mind customers making the buzz on Internet because frustated that it is offered by Marklin only , also by Micro-Metakit apparently on some of their models, and not by their favorite 2 rails loco manufacturers.......) Of course, in the beginning any brand-new-model with any brand-new-cheap-motor will work well....But after having work xxx /700/1000 hours - if they can ! - you might find some differences... In 2010 I 'm only buying models with SDS motors...with probably only one exception : The New PRR F7 at the very end of the year....I hope I could continue in 2011... Edited by user 02 September 2010 15:53:15(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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TimR		#23 Posted : 01 September 2010 04:55:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		jeehring wrote: No, the large C-Sine isn't louder/noisy than SDS ..... Large C sine was designed as a successor of DCM motor for direct straight transmission between the motor and wheels (with straight cogwheels / gearwheels). It is this type of transmission which is sometimes noisy or louder...Not the motor itself. The drivetrain design (those damn cogwheels ) is the culprit, which is why generally in terms of noise level, the same model fitted with large Sinus is only marginally quieter than its DCM equivalent - its superior advantage is in torque, consistency, and maintenance. For all practical purpose of the average MRR customer (those who doesn't care too much about the techy bits), they only care about the qualitative feature of the end product - so from this respect, it's true that a model with large C-Sine is noisier than SDS, regardless of what actually making it noisy... I think this is what the original quote was referring to. jeehring wrote: In 2010 I 'm only buying models with SDS motors... I'm trying to make the same commitment (and hope Marklin got the picture), though a few can motor models is swaying me over... it's hard not for me not to droll over 26557... Edited by user 01 September 2010 14:35:05(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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H0		#24 Posted : 01 September 2010 10:20:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		jeehring wrote: In 2010 I 'm only buying models with SDS motors... Maybe I'll go the opposite direction in 2011: no SDS (with very few exceptions). Märklin could make this easy for me.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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mvd71		#25 Posted : 01 September 2010 11:51:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,729 Location: Auckland,		Quote: It might be interesting to know that the C-Sine ALWAYS has been a brushless DC motor and was even patented as such. BigGrin Exactly! And that is why Marklin described it as a Sine motor operating on three phase principals
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kimballthurlow		#26 Posted : 01 September 2010 12:01:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,669 Location: Brisbane, Australia		Hi All, Tim quotes Quote: For all practical purpose of the average MRR customer (those who doesn't care too much about the techy bits), they only care about the qualitative feature of the end product...... Please count me in on that, I wouldn't know one end of a motor from the other. But I know that I have a few SDS models, and I think they are marvellous. I also, like Eric, have a 39195, and that has a different motor - that's marvellous too. I also have a streamline BR03 - 37914, I think it is pretty much older style motor and drive train. I put some modelling clay inside the body to absorb the noise, I guess it is the drive train that resonates in there. Anyway, thanks for the topic, I might learn something. regards Kimball
		HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Guus		#27 Posted : 01 September 2010 13:04:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Hi all, In my opinion the original C-sinus motor and its successor the SDS motor are one of the best propulsion systems for model trains. Their extremely smooth and powerful driving characteristics are just wonderful. There are however very good alternatives, like the Faulhaber motor for instance which may be more suitable for every ones needs(AC and DC) and most probably a little less expensive motor to equip model locomotives with.
		Kind regards, Guus
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H0		#28 Posted : 01 September 2010 21:55:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		kimballthurlow wrote: I also have a streamline BR03 - 37914, I think it is pretty much older style motor and drive train. I put some modelling clay inside the body to absorb the noise, I guess it is the drive train that resonates in there. The streamlined BR 03.10 has a thin metal cover with the shape of a bell - and it chimes like a bell. The 5-pole motor and standard gear in this model is not really quiet - but with this loco it's about as bad as it can get.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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kimballthurlow		#29 Posted : 02 September 2010 06:48:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,669 Location: Brisbane, Australia		Thankyou Tom, mine sounds normal then. regards Kimball
		HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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poppa-7		#30 Posted : 20 February 2013 04:55:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 93 Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand		Originally Posted by: s_christos Is this motor really a breakthrough? I do not see many locos equipped with this. Hi Members Dear ESU Members I have a Marklin 39223 E194 locomotive with a C-Sinus motor that runs like a dream but would like to upgrade it to full sound. I understand that I cannot just fit a 62464 M4 decoder like 5 pole motor locomotives. I have thought of an ESU decoder but I have yet to find any info on the procedure. Any ideas please. Regards Russell
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mike c		#31 Posted : 20 February 2013 06:08:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 7,899 Location: Montreal, QC		That looks like one of the original C-Sine motors http://medienpdb.maerkli...s/1/pdf/39223_explo.pdf? I would guess that you could install a separate sound decoder that would provide sounds but would not have any effect on the motor or lights. I guess that you could simply detach the speaker from the decoder and use the one from the sound decoder. If you have any questions about using ESU with C-sine motors, I would contact ESU, Tom Catherall (tom(at)marklin.com) or service(at)maerklin.de Regards Mike C
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river6109		#32 Posted : 20 February 2013 06:55:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,728 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Originally Posted by: mike c That looks like one of the original C-Sine motors http://medienpdb.maerkli...s/1/pdf/39223_explo.pdf? I would guess that you could install a separate sound decoder that would provide sounds but would not have any effect on the motor or lights. I guess that you could simply detach the speaker from the decoder and use the one from the sound decoder. If you have any questions about using ESU with C-sine motors, I would contact ESU, Tom Catherall (tom(at)marklin.com) or service(at)maerklin.de Regards Mike C Mike is it just me or is the pdf file just a Märklin logo ? C-Sine motor: Märklin Softdrive C Sine motor with control board (PWM) John
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
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H0		#33 Posted : 20 February 2013 08:25:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: river6109 Mike is it just me or is the pdf file just a Märklin logo? They (Märklin) don't allow direct links to their files; copy the link address and paste it into the URL field of your browser.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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mike c		#34 Posted : 21 February 2013 06:43:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 7,899 Location: Montreal, QC		Just use right click and select "Open in New Tab" or "Open in New Window" MC
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trainsman2001		#35 Posted : 22 February 2013 13:56:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/10/2012(UTC) Posts: 53 Location: Central Florida		Hi Guys since the topic of C-Sine motors is being addressed, I have an opportunity to purchase a 39050 BR05 or 39010 BR01, both which have the SDS motor. Has anyone had particular problems with either or both of these locos? They are being sold as either new or like new.
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foumaro		#36 Posted : 22 February 2013 14:49:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 4,420 Location: Attiki Athens Greece		I have the 39050 and the similar 39011,if you can buy both of them,they are perfect.
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NZMarklinist		#37 Posted : 22 February 2013 15:17:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,757 Location: Auckland NZ		Originally Posted by: poppa-7 Originally Posted by: s_christos Is this motor really a breakthrough? I do not see many locos equipped with this. Hi Members Dear ESU Members I have a Marklin 39223 E194 locomotive with a C-Sinus motor that runs like a dream but would like to upgrade it to full sound. I understand that I cannot just fit a 62464 M4 decoder like 5 pole motor locomotives. I have thought of an ESU decoder but I have yet to find any info on the procedure. Any ideas please. Regards Russell Hello Russell, I have a few of the original CSine powered Loks as well as 39223. I haven't run any of them enough to be bored of just a whistle or horn and as they are ELoks I haven't worried too much. Suffice to say it is a bit of a major but do abble according to Dennis. Talk to him when in Akl for the Mini Euro Convention at Easter. I also have the Imo Trains V200 (270) 39820 which I believe was the last large CSine Lok produced. It has a 21pin MFX decoder with sounds. To convert 39223 and the like you almost have to do away with the decoder board, however in some cases it holds an led headlamp or two, which makes this a bit hard. In the end it's just a wiring job, but knowing the config is the secret. Setting the decoder up to match the motor is another secret to a succesful conversion
		Glen Auckland NZ " Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok ! CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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H0		#38 Posted : 22 February 2013 16:31:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,267 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Setting the decoder up to match the motor is another secret to a succesful conversion With a C Sine motor, you also need a motor driver PCB mounted between decoder and motor. Märklin made three locos with big C Sine and 21MTC interface, but AFAIK these boards with the motor drivers are not available as spare parts.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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trainsman2001		#39 Posted : 22 February 2013 18:16:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/10/2012(UTC) Posts: 53 Location: Central Florida		Originally Posted by: foumaro I have the 39050 and the similar 39011,if you can buy both of them,they are perfect. Thanks foumaro, hopefully I can purchase at least one of the locos mentioned and I opologize for forgotting to sign my original post on this subject.............Sandy
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