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Not working smoke generator and decoder for 34831 loco
 Joined: 16/12/2024(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: Pomorskie, Gdańsk
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Hello!
I am brand new to model-train hobby and I choose Marklin as my system.
I bought two locos for the very beggining: 39021 and 34831.
First of all: what decoder do I need for 34831? is for example LD-W-32 matching? I just want to control it from the MS2, now this little one acts like a mad dog :)
Secondly: I have the 3.5mm smoke generator and I've tried to use it with my 39021 but it doesn't work. Generator itself is working (hot-wire and tested with 37184) but no react here.
Furthermore, I've tried to connect it with a decoder--smoke plate and directly to the neutral (brown) cable and it works fine. It seems that while generator is in the funnel there is no neutral connected.
How I could fix that?
Regards
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 1 user liked this useful post by Heh Igunen
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 Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,887 Location: Michigan, Troy
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welcome Heh! I presume that the stack of your little railcar is plastic? If so, you need to solder a ground wire to the lower side of the generator after pushing it into the stack. I can't think of another way other than to sleeve the plastic stack with a metal sleve first, and siolder a wire to it.
By the way, I am 25% Polish, 75% Italian American second generation. My mother's grand parents sailed from Danzik in 1919 and 1920, from Telschow. Sir names were Scripski and Xylowetz. They settled in and near New Castle, Pebbsylvania.
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 Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,467 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: marklinist5999  welcome Heh! I presume that the stack of your little railcar is plastic? If so, you need to solder a ground wire to the lower side of the generator after pushing it into the stack. I can't think of another way other than to sleeve the plastic stack with a metal sleve first, and siolder a wire to it.
By the way, I am 25% Polish, 75% Italian American second generation. My mother's grand parents sailed from Danzik in 1919 and 1920, from Telschow. Sir names were Scripski and Xylowetz. They settled in and near New Castle, Pebbsylvania. If the body is plastic there is a version of the smoke units that have two wires. But you also need to take care that you don't melt the plastic body with the heat from the smoke unit.
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1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 16/12/2024(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: Pomorskie, Gdańsk
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Guys, 39021 has full metal body, it should work without any wiring :)
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1 user liked this useful post by Heh Igunen
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,887 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Then just sand the inside of the stack a bit.
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 Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,559 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Heh NOTE: I never ever experienced contact issues between a Märklin metal body and the ground. Problems come always from: - a broken wire - a dead decoder output (rather rare) - a poor arrangement of the wire protruding out of the smoke unit (see Märklin installation recommendations below) - a bent contact on the loco - air in the smoke tube or over-fill of the unit (never more than 50% or the total capacity)  Cheers Jean |
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1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 16/12/2024(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: Pomorskie, Gdańsk
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Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Hi Heh NOTE: I never ever experienced contact issues between a Märklin metal body and the ground. Problems come always from: - a broken wire - a dead decoder output (rather rare) - a poor arrangement of the wire protruding out of the smoke unit (see Märklin installation recommendations below) - a bent contact on the loco - air in the smoke tube or over-fill of the unit (never more than 50% or the total capacity) Cheers Jean Hay, as I said the tube is working well when I apply neutral wire from the track and not from the body. It works with the other loco without a problem as well.
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 Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,919 Location: Auckland,
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I had difficulties some years ago with the 72270 smoke unit in both the BR55 and BR64. I did the same checks you did and had the same results.
I suspect the modern decoders are not well matched to the 72270, and it would perhaps work better with a seuthe smoke unit. I think the Suethe No. 20 is appropriate, but best check because I haven’t looked at these in years.
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Joined: 08/10/2011(UTC) Posts: 23 Location: Manawatu, New Zealand
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My experience with smoke generators is limited but following investigation I found that the Suethe No 20 (same as Maerklin 77270) is for use with non-digital type locos. Whereas you need the Seuthe No 24 for use in digital locos.
The non-digital loco smoke generators work on a lower voltage upto about 20V or so, whereas the digital locos use a higher voltage 24v + to activate the smoke generator.
As per Jean's diagram it is also important that you ensure the contact on the smoke generator is positioned correctly so as to make contact with the metal tag in the loco.
I stand corrected if what I found is in-correct.
We all learn as we go along. |
Don't dodge difficulties, meet and defeat them. (Anon)
Anyone can eat an elephant, one bite at a time (Anon)
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1 user liked this useful post by kiwiracer
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Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,919 Location: Auckland,
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Ok, number 24 it is then.
My experience of smoke units in locos from that period of manufacture was always a bit disappointing. Earlier ones and newer ones (new tooling br78) has been great
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1 user liked this useful post by mvd71
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,887 Location: Michigan, Troy
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I thought it's the opposite of lower voltage for the digital and higher for analog. At any rate, my experience is with both the Marklin and Seuthe brands, and both narrow and wide stacks. The narrow one in my br 10 has always been sporadic. Interchanging with the 24 and 20 makes no difference. It's an early sound model and I don't know what the decoder parameters are. My newer br 38 smokes great.
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,467 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: mvd71 I had difficulties some years ago with the 72270 smoke unit in both the BR55 and BR64. I did the same checks you did and had the same results.
I suspect the modern decoders are not well matched to the 72270, and it would perhaps work better with a seuthe smoke unit. I think the Suethe No. 20 is appropriate, but best check because I haven’t looked at these in years. The 3964x series of Br64 are known to have problems with the grounding connection between the body and chassis.
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1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 16/12/2024(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: Pomorskie, Gdańsk
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ok, so after another try this little wire from tgebottom felt off... so I need to buy another generator for tries. I assume that I would go for Suethe n.24 as mentioned, even tho it looks same as marklin but costs more ;)
And I thought the layout and tracks/cars gathering would be the worst part....
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1 user liked this useful post by Heh Igunen
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Joined: 16/12/2024(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: Pomorskie, Gdańsk
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another:
do You think that I need additional power supply for that kind of layout?
[img=http://ibb.co/8NvQ3YV]layout[/img]
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1 user liked this useful post by Heh Igunen
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 Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Originally Posted by: Heh Igunen another:
do You think that I need additional power supply for that kind of layout?
[img=http://ibb.co/8NvQ3YV]layout[/img] The trackbox that comes with MS2 is enough to power almost any layout. Just make sure to have several feeder wires evenly spaced. Many recommend a feeder every 1 meter, but I think one every two or three is enough. The question is more of how many locos are you planning on running at the same time and will you have passenger cars that have interior lights? -Eino
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1 user liked this useful post by einotuominen
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,887 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Yes, unless it's a quite large layout you may need a digital booster and that requires a separate power supply. This is where it gets more expensive, so a CS 3 may be more economical because it has a powerful booster inside.
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Joined: 16/12/2024(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: Pomorskie, Gdańsk
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I've just ordered CS3...will see.
How to upload images properly? I would like to share changes to layout
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1 user liked this useful post by Heh Igunen
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,467 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Heh Igunen I've just ordered CS3...will see.
How to upload images properly? I would like to share changes to layout
Click on the paper clip icon in the tool bar when writing your post, and follow the directions the resulting pop-up gives.
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1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
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Joined: 16/12/2024(UTC) Posts: 7 Location: Pomorskie, Gdańsk
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New layout in the attachment 
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Not working smoke generator and decoder for 34831 loco
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